Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Professor_Fate on January 04, 2024, 09:17:28 AM
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It’s been awhile, last time I had subscription to AcesHigh was back when HiTech and crew believed the earth was flat. I never was that good of a pilot but with so many people online then all had to do was hone my skills as an opportunist. Life was good.
Anyway, I do miss flying under the DAR and Jabo too, any way to bring that back? Ground attack played a bigger role in operations back then but not so much anymore. I seem to remember I in JG2 could I could level a fighter or vehicle hanger with a combined 190-A8 bomb and gun run. I was thinking, due to their shear size still require a truck load of ordinance only strategic heavy bombers can deliver to level the towns, cities and factories. But reduce the ordinance requirement to knock out individual hangers at airbases so tactical ground attack fighters could play more of a role too.
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Hangars need 2,780lbs of ord... this can be carried by a variety of jabo ftrs (mostly US rides)
That 2,780 lbs would take 2x 1k eggs and 6 rckts (US) - but sometimes a near miss requires a strafing run to finish it off.
The 110Gs are also capable.
For early/mid war planes or later nations with limited jabo capacity, you just need 2-5 players targeting a hangar. Or use a variety of light/med bombers - a single TU can easily take out a hangar.
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I was thinking, due to their shear size still require a truck load of ordinance only strategic heavy bombers can deliver to level the towns, cities and factories. But reduce the ordinance requirement to knock out individual hangers at airbases so tactical ground attack fighters could play more of a role too.
A single Jabo can do tremendous damage to factories (IMHO even way too much), or (when selecting something like a P-47) a single hangar. And of course severely pork an airfield. This is already giving medium bombers kinda hard time finding a purpose in non-strategic gameplay.
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You can take out a hanger with an 190-A8 with a full load and 2-3 strafing passes.
The mosquito fighter can as well.
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A single Jabo can do tremendous damage to factories (IMHO even way too much), or (when selecting something like a P-47) a single hangar. And of course severely pork an airfield. This is already giving medium bombers kinda hard time finding a purpose in non-strategic gameplay.
Seems only real role medium bombers have is sinking CVs
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That’s a problem, why and where is anyone going to find 2-5 players just to knock out 1 hangar, IMHO it’s a fruitless endeavor and likely why we don’t see such missions anymore. It would be easier to find 2-5 players if ordnance requirements on hangars were reduced and hopefully contribute more to overall game play and options. I’m no expert, but I’m thinking a 500 lb bomb would obliterate a r/l aircraft hangar or vehicle garage including whatever’s inside it, it’s not like they’re 10 foot thick reinforced concrete u-boat pens. Also, Heavies would still be required to carpet bomb towns to prep them for capture and needed to destroy cities and factories.
Though might have to increase the towns ordnance requirements to prevent buffs from doing everything at once.
Just my 0.2 cents.
(https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-QrHj85umNr8/W1BRNH9OSLI/AAAAAAAAdIs/EgEJxXQ4bpo2PLX3RQxXizvslcHoFHhdACLcBGAs/s640/HangerWNF.jpg%0A)
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That’s a problem, why and where is anyone going to find 2-5 players just to knock out 1 hangar, IMHO it’s a fruitless endeavor and likely why we don’t see such missions anymore. It would be easier to find 2-5 players if ordnance requirements on hangars were reduced and hopefully contribute more to overall game play and options. I’m no expert, but I’m thinking a 500 lb bomb would obliterate a r/l aircraft hangar or vehicle garage including whatever’s inside it, it’s not like they’re 10 foot thick reinforced concrete u-boat pens. Also, Heavies would still be required to carpet bomb towns to prep them for capture and needed to destroy cities and factories.
Though might have to increase the towns ordnance requirements to prevent buffs from doing everything at once.
Just my 0.2 cents.
We do a lot of hanger busting on the rook side! It’s usually the first thing I do each night is dump a vh. I’ve been trying to find more ways to do it so as not to be bored.
Lately I’ve decided I’m going to start also focusing on the troop factories and tents on the bases to thwart base takes and resups.
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We do a lot of hanger busting on the rook side! It’s usually the first thing I do each night is dump a vh. I’ve been trying to find more ways to do it so as not to be bored.
Lately I’ve decided I’m going to start also focusing on the troop factories and tents on the bases to thwart base takes and resups.
Agreed Dadtallica, imo one of the most ignored, highly important factories for base take defense. :rock
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Agreed Dadtallica, imo one of the most ignored, highly important factories for base take defense. :rock
Until recently I didn’t know disabling troops at a base also stops resupplies which is a defense tactic today used way more than I remember in the old days.
I’d they have no fellas for the seats the hangers won’t matter lol.
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You can take out a hanger with an 190-A8 with a full load and 2-3 strafing passes.
The mosquito fighter can as well.
YES IT CAN! :furious One minute I am, "What he doing/where he be at?".....then"Mother Trucker...he got the Ammo! THRICE!!!!" :furious SOB!!!! You even bombed me! LOL OK Yes, I deserved that one! :rofl What is good for the Spitfire, has to be good for the Mosquito, you know. ...right? :rofl This is becoming a most anticipated situation, of an evening. :rock
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That’s a problem, why and where is anyone going to find 2-5 players just to knock out 1 hangar
You can easily knock out a hangar in one pass with a P-47D-40 and still have ordnance left. I definitely do not think we need to soften hangars. Hangars definitely don't need to be softened up. Realistically, yeah, a 500lbs bomb would destroy a hangar, but we have to think about gameplay.
I do not think the reasons you listed are responsible for lack of missions.
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YES IT CAN! :furious One minute I am, "What he doing/where he be at?".....then"Mother Trucker...he got the Ammo! THRICE!!!!" :furious SOB!!!! You even bombed me! LOL OK Yes, I deserved that one! :rofl What is good for the Spitfire, has to be good for the Mosquito, you know. ...right? :rofl This is becoming a most anticipated situation, of an evening. :rock
lol when I saw you all pour out of the vh I decided to just drop my ords on all of you. I missed everyone else but you! :salute :cheers:
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Anyway, I do miss flying under the DAR and Jabo too, any way to bring that back? Ground attack played a bigger role in operations back then but not so much anymore. I seem to remember I in JG2 could I could level a fighter or vehicle hanger with a combined 190-A8 bomb and gun run. I was thinking, due to their shear size still require a truck load of ordinance only strategic heavy bombers can deliver to level the towns, cities and factories. But reduce the ordinance requirement to knock out individual hangers at airbases so tactical ground attack fighters could play more of a role too.
When I stopped playing the dar was that any plane within 6k of you showed an icon. It didn't matter if it was on the ground or not so I think the flying under the radar thing is a thing of the past. It was dang near impossible to sneak a goon with the new "dar" settings. I started referring to it as AWACS cause you there was no way to hide.
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When I stopped playing the dar was that any plane within 6k of you showed an icon. It didn't matter if it was on the ground or not so I think the flying under the radar thing is a thing of the past. It was dang near impossible to sneak a goon with the new "dar" settings. I started referring to it as AWACS cause you there was no way to hide.
Under dar now is 50ft or less. I do it on the water since you can just auto level but it’s not easy over the terrains.
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60 feet. Just sayin'
Under dar now is 50ft or less. I do it on the water since you can just auto level but it’s not easy over the terrains.
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60 feet. Just sayin'
Even better.
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Anyway, I do miss flying under the DAR and Jabo too, any way to bring that back? Ground attack played a bigger role in operations
Many scenarios have that.
For example, the previous scenario (October) was an Eastern Front battle. My group of 8-10 pilots flew P-39's doing nothing but jabo. Flying under radar, trying to pick routes to sneak in, hitting our targets, maybe half the time getting in big fights on our way out.
It is a blast.
Just about every other scenario has jabos or ground attack in it.
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So what everyone is saying a 500 kg bomb can’t wipe out a tinfoil hangar and its contents? Today on channel 200 most smack talk is about politics. I remember a day when brave, fearless diehard luftwaffles respectfully and gallantly brought to everyone’s attention the favoritism towards American iron and how badly luftwaffle aircraft were nerfed.
The arguements have changed but the nerf is real. A Shrike 190 with one 500 kg center mount and maybe (if needed) four 250 kg wing mounts ought to be able to take out one raggedy arse tin foil hangar in one swoop.
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190 with one 500 kg center mount and 4 250 kg wing mounts ought to be able to take out one raggedy arse tin foil hangar in one swoop.
If my Math is mathing…it will.
So what everyone is saying a 500 kg bomb can’t wipe out a tinfoil hangar
Again, realism versus gameplay.
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I mean...apart from field mods, probably the only 'jabo' capable of much more than a 500kg would be the 190Gs which had larger wing bombs. By 1943 there wasn't much need for a plethora of offensive ground attack planes since Germany was on the defensive.
It is what it is...can't make planes out of thin air. Well you can I guess if you like War Thunder.
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I see what you’re doing, you’re using those bouncing boobs to sway my mind. But I know better, a 190 F-8 loaded with a 500kg bomb should be able to wipe out one tin hangar.
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If you want to drop a hangar in one pass, Salvo 2, start with rockets from a bit higher, after rockets are gone, switch to eggs and drop em. I see a lot of guys doing a rockets pass, and come back around with eggs.
Two passes for 1 object just doubles the time exposed to ground gun fire and damage to your plane. Definitely worth practicing it if you don't feel confident doing so.
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I dropped a 500 pound bomb from a P40 the other day in another sim and took out two hangers that were close to each other with one bomb. I was kinda surprised myself.
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I see what you’re doing, you’re using those bouncing boobs to sway my mind. But I know better, a 190 F-8 loaded with a 500kg bomb should be able to wipe out one tin hangar.
I’ve done it with the 500kg, two rockets and the 30mm. Took me 2-3 passes I think.
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Hangars are just a tinfoil canopy. I remember knocking them out in a Shrike F-8 armed with a 500 kg bomb and one or two sweeps with 20 mm cannon and having more than enough left over to drop DAR and then some.
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So what everyone is saying a 500 kg bomb can’t wipe out a tinfoil hangar and its contents? Today on channel 200 most smack talk is about politics. I remember a day when brave, fearless diehard luftwaffles respectfully and gallantly brought to everyone’s attention the favoritism towards American iron and how badly luftwaffle aircraft were nerfed.
The arguements have changed but the nerf is real. A Shrike 190 with one 500 kg center mount and maybe (if needed) four 250 kg wing mounts ought to be able to take out one raggedy arse tin foil hangar in one swoop.
The issue is between "real life" vs "game play".
Real life, sure any bomb can blow a good sized hole in a tin fighter hanger, but what is that going to do? Keeps the rain of the planes on bad days. No in game play your taking out the fighter hang infrastructure and so it takes a bit more to drop it.
In real life your blowing a hole in the roof and creating a crater in the hanger. Unless there is fire, no real damage.
In the game your not only damaging the hanger, you taking out the tools, the equipment used to maintain the planes and repair them, the ammo loading abilities, the aiming adjustment abilities and so on.
In real life you would have to hunt all over a field to do that type of damage, in the game it is consolidated in one area.... a fighter hanger... to create that type of damage so yes it "seems" like its a lot of ord to drop a hanger, but your not just killing a hanger
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I don’t know about that. I pulled the trigger on a 25mm Bushmaster, that gun alone buttered up more than you or anyone could ever imagine. What a light show, nothing was left of the target. Reduce ordnance requirements for airbase hangers. Long live luftwaffle tactical jabo!
I may not have hit a wrench or tool box but I sure as hell ended any chance of them reacting to my presence.
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I don’t know about that. I pulled the trigger on a 25mm Bushmaster, that gun alone buttered up more than you or anyone could ever imagine. What a light show, nothing was left of the target. Reduce ordnance requirements for airbase hangers. Long live luftwaffle tactical jabo!
I may not have hit a wrench or tool box but I sure as hell ended any intentions they may have had.
So your comparing a gun that came out in 76 vs guns in WWII :headscratch:
I here the warthogs gun is pretty devastating too, but totally irelivate to the game as well.
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It’s not about dates of development, not much difference between a 20 mm and 25 mm round both will effectively end your day and lay waste to any tinfoil target and its content. Knowing what a 25mm cannon can do I think a 500kg bomb dropped from a Shrike should obliterate a hangar in real life or AHIII.
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It’s not about dates of development, a 20 mm or 25 mm round will just as effectively end your day and lay waste to any tinfoil target and its content. Not counting cannons a 500kg bomb dropped from a Shrike on a hangar in AHIII should be obliterated it.
In arcade world yes but AH has to walk the fine line between sim and arcade. In real life one dead hanger most likely did not disable all vehicles at a field while at the same time the weapons we use in AH could have a larger effect in the real world. Says me that is.
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It’s not about dates of development, a 20 mm or 25 mm round will just as effectively end your day and lay waste to any tinfoil target and its content. Knowing what a 25mm cannon can do I think a 500kg bomb dropped from a Shrike should obliterate a hangar in real life or AHIII.
So, what exactly are you proposing?
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So, what exactly are you proposing?
Reduce the ordnance requirements at airbases to give luftwaffle planes like the 190 F-8 a job. But still require heavy strategic bombing to prep towns for capture and reduce factory capacities. I realize it would give American iron like the p47 over airbases an edge but that’s ok too since all offensives should be decisively swift, terrifying, overwhelming, and deadly.
Let’s face it the sim is currently about ‘defending thy sheep’ let’s make it about killing the sheep and if the sheep can’t get their act together to repel an advance then fark’em, sucks being a sheep. 😂
Im kinda whisky bent right now so I hope that made sense.
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NGL I love upping an A8 to pork a field or cause general mayhem but it’s true power in the AH world should be perked a bit lower? Or is it higher? Either way it’s a silent beast! :airplane:
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At some point you need to balance realism and gameplay. You proposition with current base layouts would result in most fields being shut down 90% of the time, and having to fly 2 sectors just to find a bad guy.
A 190f8 can currently do a hell of a job helping a base take with ground attack capability, it's just not in the form of dropping a hangar with a 500kg egg.
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If anything I would be inclined to increase the hanger damage requirements, and the Ammo bunker requirements. :devil
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If anything I would be inclined to increase the hanger damage requirements, and the Ammo bunker requirements. :devil
Also hardening the radar tower or putting a few more guns around it would be nice even though I would squeak about it! Haha
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Reduce the ordnance requirements at airbases to give luftwaffle planes like the 190 F-8 a job. But still require heavy strategic bombing to prep towns for capture and reduce factory capacities. I realize it would give American iron like the p47 over airbases an edge but that’s ok too since all offensives should be decisively swift, terrifying, overwhelming, and deadly.
Let’s face it the sim is currently about ‘defending thy sheep’ let’s make it about killing the sheep and if the sheep can’t get their act together to repel an advance then fark’em, sucks being a sheep. 😂
Im kinda whisky bent right now so I hope that made sense.
Like Lazer said its all a balancing act.
The point of the game is to make defending possible as well as attacking possible but evenly. There shouldnt be one side that has an advantage over the other.
So lets say HTC drops the amount of ammo it takes to drop a hanger. Now you can drop a hanger with your FW. I can then drop 3 hangers with a lone P47. If I bring a buddy we can flatten a field and keep it suppressed for a good amount of time giving the "attacking" side an advantage over the defending side..... poor game play. Players stop defending and the game becomes a race to capture the requisite number of bases to win the war and you have lost all air to air fighting was the game is based on.
The game can be played many ways. My squad does field attacks with nothing but Jabos often. We also will come in low and hard in lancs to flatten everything in a single pass. Maybe you should find a squad to work with.
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Like Lazer said its all a balancing act.
The point of the game is to make defending possible as well as attacking possible but evenly. There shouldnt be one side that has an advantage over the other.
So lets say HTC drops the amount of ammo it takes to drop a hanger. Now you can drop a hanger with your FW. I can then drop 3 hangers with a lone P47. If I bring a buddy we can flatten a field and keep it suppressed for a good amount of time giving the "attacking" side an advantage over the defending side..... poor game play. Players stop defending and the game becomes a race to capture the requisite number of bases to win the war and you have lost all air to air fighting was the game is based on.
The game can be played many ways. My squad does field attacks with nothing but Jabos often. We also will come in low and hard in lancs to flatten everything in a single pass. Maybe you should find a squad to work with.
A fully loaded FW190A8 with 30mm can drop a hanger in 3-4 passes.
We used to do noe Lanc runs on vh bases back in AH2. Two lancs, a heavy deacker and a goon is all you needed. There were only three hangers back then if iirc.
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In one run with an F8 I could usually (if the autos didn't get a lucky hit on me) I could take down the radar, the ords and all the town and base autos. Seems like a pretty decent jabo to me :)
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lol when I saw you all pour out of the vh I decided to just drop my ords on all of you. I missed everyone else but you! :salute :cheers:
Yep..KARMA!!!!!! I called it!
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So what everyone is saying a 500 kg bomb can’t wipe out a tinfoil hangar and its contents? Today on channel 200 most smack talk is about politics. I remember a day when brave, fearless diehard luftwaffles respectfully and gallantly brought to everyone’s attention the favoritism towards American iron and how badly luftwaffle aircraft were nerfed.
The arguements have changed but the nerf is real. A Shrike 190 with one 500 kg center mount and maybe (if needed) four 250 kg wing mounts ought to be able to take out one raggedy arse tin foil hangar in one swoop.
When you die in real life, you can't participate anymore. The game has to have some adjustments to be able to be playable. If all you want to do is blow up hangars, setup a room and soften the hangers to your liking. In the game, the jabo folks do what it takes to take out hangars.
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So what everyone is saying
Come join us in a scenario. They are more realistic. The next one starting Feb. 3 is 8th AF, so no jabo. But the one after that, probably in October or so, will likely have ground attack. Fate says that you should. :aok
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Come join us in a scenario. They are more realistic. The next one starting Feb. 3 is 8th AF, so no jabo. But the one after that, probably in October or so, will likely have ground attack. Fate says that you should. :aok
I see what you did there.... :D
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I see what you did there.... :D
[In a low voice in your subconscious] "Shuffler . . . Shuuuuuuuuuuuflerrrrrrrrr . . . The Masters of the Air scenario is calllllllllling you . . . You want to fly an 8th AF fighter . . . You want to go up the long, delirious, burning blue. To top the wind-swept heights. Shufflerrrrrrr . . . you want to register . . . you must register . . . you are compelled to register . . ."
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[In a low voice in your subconscious] "Shuffler . . . Shuuuuuuuuuuuflerrrrrrrrr . . . The Masters of the Air scenario is calllllllllling you . . . You want to fly an 8th AF fighter . . . You want to go up the long, delirious, burning blue. To top the wind-swept heights. Shufflerrrrrrr . . . you want to register . . . you must register . . . you are compelled to register . . ."
I have been invited to take a 38. I will probably grab one this evening.
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For Monday Night Madness, right? :aok
I have been invited to take a 38. I will probably grab one this evening.
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For Monday Night Madness, right? :aok
Well was for the Scenario..... but looks like I am too late. All spots taken.
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Well was for the Scenario..... but looks like I am too late. All spots taken.
shuffler if that powers that be can switch me to a p51b then d, you can have my spot in the p38
semp
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shuffler if that powers that be can switch me to a p51b then d, you can have my spot in the p38
semp
Semp, which would you rather fly, group with P-38's frame 1, or group with P-51B's? I think either way will work fine.
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If semp can go to 51s, ill grab a 38.
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Semp, which would you rather fly, group with P-38's frame 1, or group with P-51B's? I think either way will work fine.
p51b
thanks
semp
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I am on board. Thanks Semp!!
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I am on board. Thanks Semp!!
:banana: :banana:
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I am on board. Thanks Semp!!
:rock yeeaaaa!
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Like Lazer said its all a balancing act.
The point of the game is to make defending possible as well as attacking possible but evenly. There shouldnt be one side that has an advantage over the other.
So lets say HTC drops the amount of ammo it takes to drop a hanger. Now you can drop a hanger with your FW. I can then drop 3 hangers with a lone P47. If I bring a buddy we can flatten a field and keep it suppressed for a good amount of time giving the "attacking" side an advantage over the defending side..... poor game play. Players stop defending and the game becomes a race to capture the requisite number of bases to win the war and you have lost all air to air fighting was the game is based on.
The game can be played many ways. My squad does field attacks with nothing but Jabos often. We also will come in low and hard in lancs to flatten everything in a single pass. Maybe you should find a squad to work with.
Today, I suspect due to smaller numbers online, the map was smaller but the same planes were still flying to get the job of base capture done. Instead of smaller maps leave them as they are and instead expand plane options by reducing Jabo requirements. In the long run Operation Bodenplatte is considered a failure but the devastation wrought by luftwaffe ground attack cannot be denied. An F-8 or even a 109 with a 250-500 kg bomb, should lay waste to any tinfoil hanger and its contents. Does a P47 have an advantage? Hell yes it does but a Shrike ought to be able to do much more than just scratch paint. Heavy big uglies would still be required to carpet bomb towns and factories to capture a base.