General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: CptTrips on January 10, 2025, 04:00:38 PM
Title: State of Sim'ing 2024 Survey
Post by: CptTrips on January 10, 2025, 04:00:38 PM
State of sim'ing 2024:
I think these results are probably DCS skewed.
Yes, he started out in IL2 and regularly covers many sims, and can't really be described as a mindless DCS Fanboi (often the opposite), he really got famous from his DCS coverage, so I expect his audience is heavily DCS weighted.
So, with a grain of salt...
Title: Re: State of Sim'ing 2024 Survey
Post by: fudgums on January 10, 2025, 07:42:36 PM
Lame.
Title: Re: State of Sim'ing 2024 Survey
Post by: DmonSlyr on January 11, 2025, 11:04:44 AM
Why does no one ever talk about AH in these? I swear it's like this game doesn't exist...
Title: Re: State of Sim'ing 2024 Survey
Post by: Shane on January 11, 2025, 11:21:40 AM
I guess the good ole capt'n here never gives AH a mention at those other places he's begging us to check out.
Well, genius, I talked extensively about AH to both Enigma (trying to get him to do an interview, and or a review of AH as one of the Golden Age sims still in production the way he has IL2.) and to players in the IL2_1946 channel there.
I had one former player say he was going to re-download and try it again as he never heard it had added VR. Another 1946 influencer said he would give the trial a go at some point on my recommendation, because I think the current 1946 fan base and the AH fan base should have a lot of cross pollination. 1946 patched, ends up being very similar to AH. It think both would transition easily and 1946 would be useful for AH players who'd like some similar SP, and AH would be a better environment to the 1946 crowd for MP.
The problem is I have to admit that I myself don't currently keep an active account so that weakens my pitch.
The chest-thumpers around here should get out of their echo chamber and go out on Hoggit and Discord and make their case. Most prefer to stay in their little safe-space here and snipe. I've only seen Dadtallica and Scott ever grow enough of a pair to go evangelize outside of this choir.
Title: Re: State of Sim'ing 2024 Survey
Post by: CptTrips on January 11, 2025, 11:49:32 AM
Why does no one ever talk about AH in these? I swear it's like this game doesn't exist...
Enigma knows about AH. I think he has even tried it a long time ago but didn’t spend much time in it. He was an avid WWIIOL player and still plays IL2 regularly.
I imagine it was left out for the same reason you don’t see WWIIOL on there even though being technically still alive. And Enigma LIKED WWIIOL, it just doesn’t rate as viable anymore. He has fond memories, it just isn't a market player anymore. I imagine his views on AH and WWIIOL are probably a lot like what he said about Cliffs of Dover in that vid.
The average age of a DCS player is probably in the range of 30 yo. The average age of a AH player is probably in the range of 60 yo. (just guessing)
In the end though, that list was driven by the player comments. Probably a largely IL2\DSC skewed sampling pool. With that younger cohort, AH is just a forgotten ruin in the jungle, or at best something they remember their granddads talk about playing.
Even the former player that said would give the VR a try said he though AH had gone out of business a decade ago.
Title: Re: State of Sim'ing 2024 Survey
Post by: Lusche on January 11, 2025, 11:54:36 AM
Why does no one ever talk about AH in these? I swear it's like this game doesn't exist...
Because it has a very small player base compared to that other sims mentioned. It's simply flying under the radar of most people. And not having seen any notable development for like a decade certainly doesn't help. The very few guys I ever encountered knowing about were like "wow, that game still exists? I used to play it as a kid!"
Title: Re: State of Sim'ing 2024 Survey
Post by: DmonSlyr on January 11, 2025, 12:09:08 PM
Because it has a very small player base compared to that other sims mentioned. It's simply flying under the radar of most people. And not having seen any notable development for like a decade certainly doesn't help. The very few guys I ever encountered knowing about were like "wow, that game still exists? I used to play it as a kid!"
Yeah it's outdated and player base slipped, but it's still a simulator. Does that many more players really play Il2 than this? That being said said, I can understand why AH may not suite all types of sim gamers. The MA is a very unfair and challenging place. It costs $15 a month. AH lacks server based arenas for some stupid reason which are free to make and play in. To me, I enjoy it more than the other current ww2 flight sims. DCS needs more planes. Plus do those games even have special event war simulations based on real battles of WW2 with 40 players on each side? I don't think so. To me that's the most underrated part of AH that NO ONE talks about in their reviews. That in itself is a "simulation" of war strategy, not just flight simulation. AH also has been getting new maps. No marketing for those... thats not considered an update? Why no announcement of the North America map on the front page or something? DCS announces new maps...these are EASY things to draw in players.
Title: Re: State of Sim'ing 2024 Survey
Post by: CptTrips on January 11, 2025, 12:20:22 PM
Yeah it's outdated and player base slipped, but it's still a simulator. Does that many more players really play Il2 than this? That being said said, I can understand why AH may not suite all types of sim gamers. The MA is a very unfair and challenging place. It costs $15 a month. AH lacks server based arenas for some stupid reason which are free to make and play in. To me, I enjoy it more than the other current ww2 flight sims. DCS needs more planes. Plus do those games even have special event war simulations based on real battles of WW2 with 40 players on each side? I don't think so. To me that's the most underrated part of AH that NO ONE talks about in their reviews. That in itself is a "simulation" of war strategy, not just flight simulation. AH also has been getting new maps. No marketing for those... thats not considered an update? Why no announcement of the North America map on the front page or something? DCS announces new maps...these are EASY things to draw in players.
That is an impassioned argument.
Now go make it on Hoggit. You don't need to remake the argument here to a bunch of guys who mostly already have accounts. You want customers, go make your case to where you'll find the potential customers. Not a MSFS reddit, but someplace they discuss air combat sims. You'll have to go risk rejection. Very few here are willing to go brave that risk of rejection, so they just squat here and stew.
A good model here is the BMS guys. They are always pitching BMS over on Hoggit. Respectfully but with passion. They might risk a little eye-rolling but I haven't seen any of them attacked.
NO, just randomly dropping some vids into the YT void is also not going to move the needle. You're going to have to have conversation and explain why there is more there than a visual video can convey. You are going to have to have a dialog with potential customers outside of the safe-space echo chamber. It's going to take direct engagement. And you are not going to convince most. That's just going to be the reality.
Title: Re: State of Sim'ing 2024 Survey
Post by: Lusche on January 11, 2025, 12:22:56 PM
Yeah it's outdated and player base slipped, but it's still a simulator. Does that many more players really play Il2 than this?
From steam charts:
AH now playing 6; 24H peak 11 (actual number: in the arena 36. I can Only guess the 24 hour peak, maybe 130?) Il-2 now playing 431, same as 24h peak (I have no idea how many are playing non steam) DCS now playing 1588, 24h-peak: 1600 (Many if not most are also playing the non steam version) WWII Online: 22 in game now, 25 peak. (I have no idea how many are playing non steam)
for comparison E:D (Thats were I'm at most of my time these days) 8794 /8794
Title: Re: State of Sim'ing 2024 Survey
Post by: CptTrips on January 11, 2025, 12:26:50 PM
AH now playing 6; 24H peak 11 (actual number: in the arena 36. I can Only guess the 24 hour peak, maybe 130?) Il-2 now playing 431, same as 24h peak (I have no idea how many are playing non steam) DCS now playing 1588, 24h-peak: 1600 (Many if not most are also playing the non steam version) WWII Online: 22 in game now, 25 peak. (I have no idea how many are playing non steam)
for comparison E:D (Thats were I'm at most of my time these days) 8794 /8794
For DCS at least, I am pretty certain that number is skewed very low. For DCS, I know the VAST majority of players directly purchase through ED rather than Steam.
Through Steam, players don't get access to the perpetual two-week trial system or purchase reward miles.
Title: Re: State of Sim'ing 2024 Survey
Post by: CptTrips on January 11, 2025, 03:54:59 PM
opps failed edit.
Title: Re: State of Sim'ing 2024 Survey
Post by: Meatwad on January 11, 2025, 04:00:09 PM
I play ww2ol every now and then, not through steam. The numbers dropped there also compared what it used to be. Only reason I'm there is because it offers ftp
Title: Re: State of Sim'ing 2024 Survey
Post by: CptTrips on January 11, 2025, 04:16:59 PM
I play ww2ol every now and then, not through steam. The numbers dropped there also compared what it used to be. Only reason I'm there is because it offers ftp
I tried to like WWIIOL. I loved the concept, but the implementation....ooooffff.
But it's been a while since I've last tried it and there is still some development going on there. Hmmm but looks the same at least:
Title: Re: State of Sim'ing 2024 Survey
Post by: AAIK on January 11, 2025, 04:48:13 PM
Guys, pop by ww2ol some time and play the free to play planes and show these ego-ridden ww2ol pilots how its really done! They have had it too comfortable so far.
Title: Re: State of Sim'ing 2024 Survey
Post by: CptTrips on January 11, 2025, 04:57:35 PM
Guys, pop by ww2ol some time and play the free to play planes and show these ego-ridden ww2ol pilots how its really done! They have had it too comfortable so far.
If they pull this off in the full game, I'd say it's worth another try. Especially if the air graphics improve an equal amount.
Actually, I didn't get far enough to try their planes. I didn't bother based on what I saw on the ground and the air reputation inWWIIOL.
How do you rate the FM?
Title: Re: State of Sim'ing 2024 Survey
Post by: AKIron on January 11, 2025, 05:06:41 PM
Interesting polls. Obviously some here think there are no other sims that should be discussed here other than AH. That is their prerogative. Just as it is everyone else's to dismiss that opinion with a casual wave of the hand.
Title: Re: State of Sim'ing 2024 Survey
Post by: AKIron on January 11, 2025, 05:34:39 PM
When it comes to flight sims there's really only one opinion that matters to me. Mine.
I want realism without compromise. The machine and environment should challenge as much as an opponent.
You are welcome to your own opinion of course.
Title: Re: State of Sim'ing 2024 Survey
Post by: AAIK on January 12, 2025, 06:45:25 AM
"How do you rate the FM?"
Its very generic. In other sims there are distinct differences between planes but in ww2ol they seem to mesh over sometimes.
Like in AH you would never turn fight a 109E with a Spit9 but in ww2ol you can do it pretty well.
"Mud" is the only way I can describe them at times: FMs/performance arn't very distinct between each other.
Title: Re: State of Sim'ing 2024 Survey
Post by: Animl-AW on January 12, 2025, 07:35:19 AM
He got to talk negative about AH on bbs, and if course post about other games. Like always, tells ypu to go somewhere else to get depressed about AH. He’s hoping fir snither 128 pages to spite people like me. Notice his references.
To think he pushed AH to people over DCS is rediculous. Every one of his ideas are geared fir failure.
Since I made a comment him and Iron stepped up trying to incite their games with videos.
If you think these two are looking out for your best interest, who refuse to fly the sim, you’re being foolish.
Its just another approach to point out negatives in the bbs of the very sim. Lets not forget hus 128 pages of slamming AH and selling DCS at every chance.
Ironically, as soon as we go into selling mode the two idiots want to inhibit our growth with negatives in front of new players. Same BS different day.
Everytime we go into selling mode they just happen to show up with the circus again..
Obviously they ignore that WE don’t like what they do here, therefore do not respect you. They do nothing else here.
Stop biting these idiots shinny hook
They both did it with 1-2 weeks to troll a response from me. Its a troll Same BS act.
He also contributed to YKW and V attacks on me and my personal info.
knowing it didn’t mention AH should tell you what he’s really up to. A repeat and instigating a response from me. Nothing more.
My next response will be at DCS forum.
Title: Re: State of Sim'ing 2024 Survey
Post by: Animl-AW on January 12, 2025, 08:07:41 AM
I'm going to forums and "making my case", just not the ones he suggested. :) I'm sure he won't mind since he does it here. lol
Spent some time talking about AH on DCs, found this gem post.
"Normandy is the only one worth it. And if you want to play multiplayer or in a somewhat decent WWII scenario, the assets pack is a must.
However, be advised that ED doesn't really show any love to the WWII stuff as of late (we received gear physics update and a new FW-190A8 cockpit model this year while ancient issues remain unsolved for years). So as of now, as you can see by the amount of online WWII players, it is not really worth to buy anything just yet. You might be simply better of by the other products on the market depending on what you seek for. "
Title: Re: State of Sim'ing 2024 Survey
Post by: CptTrips on January 12, 2025, 11:10:45 AM
I'm going to forums and "making my case", just not the ones he suggested. :) I'm sure he won't mind since he does it here. lol
Spent some time talking about AH on DCs, found this gem post.
"Normandy is the only one worth it. And if you want to play multiplayer or in a somewhat decent WWII scenario, the assets pack is a must.
However, be advised that ED doesn't really show any love to the WWII stuff as of late (we received gear physics update and a new FW-190A8 cockpit model this year while ancient issues remain unsolved for years). So as of now, as you can see by the amount of online WWII players, it is not really worth to buy anything just yet. You might be simply better of by the other products on the market depending on what you seek for. "
Animl,
I find it hilarious you think I care where you post. That is not my forum. You posting there is purely a matter between yourself and that forum's moderation team. I did give them a heads up you were coming last time. I explained how mentally unstable you are and showed them the screenshots of your sexually explicit stalker unsolicited PM you like to send people who disagree with you on a forum. I showed them the posts where you were saying you were heading over explicitly to try and start trouble on their forum. We laughed about you a bit.
But go ahead and knock yourself out. They're ready for you and your forum account is flagged. I'm sure you will do wonders representing the Aces High community over there.
Oh, and I've said time, and time, and time again...that DCS is not a replacement for AH. It's a different kind of game. The WWII planeset is too thin, plane development takes too long, WWII is not DCS' core competency, and the server just has the wrong architecture to support a 24/7 MMOG in the sense AH has. Something like Enigma's Cold War server was only possible through tons of custom scripting and a lot of coding man-hours. Cudos to them, but they worked really hard to pound a square peg into a round hole.
But thanks for bumping the thread. Here is your reward for today:
Title: Re: State of Sim'ing 2024 Survey
Post by: CptTrips on January 12, 2025, 11:47:04 AM
That said, I do have some hope 2025 might be the year DCS remembers WWII exists. I think they are laying plans to undercut Combat Pilot and strangle it in the crib so I expect DCS to at some point start making a push to flesh out the PTO instead of continuing ETO in the near future.
Combined with 1C's inexplicable decision to put IL2: GB on back burner and go off and start trying to compete with DCS in the jet space. Really? Seriously? Good luck with that.
DCS maybe should return the favor and go dominate the genre 1C is walking away from and block CP at the same time.
I still am curious as to what the majority of GB's players reaction will be to see their company walk away from the core product. Those disgruntled players might be ripe to be won over by someone who is still willing to expand the WWII space with honest effort. This guy's opinion may be a canary in the coal mine:
Title: Re: State of Sim'ing 2024 Survey
Post by: mechanic on January 12, 2025, 12:26:34 PM
You guys do realise that widespread interest in WWII aviation dies with us?
Title: Re: State of Sim'ing 2024 Survey
Post by: CptTrips on January 12, 2025, 12:41:09 PM
You guys do realise that widespread interest in WWII aviation dies with us?
There must be some VC money behind CP that disagrees with you. They are funding an entirely new greenfield from scratch WWII flightsim product in 2025. Some people with a couple of $mil to invest still seem to think there is life in the genre.
I think because WWII AC are simpler to learn and operate than highly complex computerized 5th gen fighters, for causal to mid-level simmers, WWII AC are always going to be a natural fit for some portion of the flight sim market that doesn't want to invest hours and hours pouring over manuals.
Regardless, there HAS to be more interest in WWII than Korea: "The Forgotten War". Yeah, lets go bet the franchise on a era that is "forgotten" because basically no one cares about it. That sounds like a great investment. ;)
$0.02.
Title: Re: State of Sim'ing 2024 Survey
Post by: Meatwad on January 12, 2025, 02:48:45 PM
Guys, pop by ww2ol some time and play the free to play planes and show these ego-ridden ww2ol pilots how its really done! They have had it too comfortable so far.
Their flight model is wonky and feels like you are in a bucket of water and not air. I tried it and it doesn't compete with AH
Title: Re: State of Sim'ing 2024 Survey
Post by: AKIron on January 12, 2025, 03:07:08 PM
There must be some VC money behind CP that disagrees with you. They are funding an entirely new greenfield from scratch WWII flightsim product in 2025. Some people with a couple of $mil to invest still seem to think there is life in the genre.
I think because WWII AC are simpler to learn and operate than highly complex computerized 5th gen fighters, for causal to mid-level simmers, WWII AC are always going to be a natural fit for some portion of the flight sim market that doesn't want to invest hours and hours pouring over manuals.
Regardless, there HAS to be more interest in WWII than Korea: "The Forgotten War". Yeah, lets go bet the franchise on a era that is "forgotten" because basically no one cares about it. That sounds like a great investment. ;)
$0.02.
Based on my sim experience only, because I have no real life experience flying war planes, I think 3rd and 4th gen fighters are harder and more complex than 5th gen.
Title: Re: State of Sim'ing 2024 Survey
Post by: AKIron on January 12, 2025, 03:12:06 PM
Though I have to admit killing ground targets 150 miles away using the AGM-84H/K SLAM-ER in the 4th gen F/A-18 couldn't be easier.
Title: Re: State of Sim'ing 2024 Survey
Post by: CptTrips on January 12, 2025, 04:23:49 PM
I find it hilarious you think I care where you post. That is not my forum. You posting there is purely a matter between yourself and that forum's moderation team. I did give them a heads up you were coming last time. I explained how mentally unstable you are and showed them the screenshots of your sexually explicit stalker unsolicited PM you like to send people who disagree with you on a forum. I showed them the posts where you were saying you were heading over explicitly to try and start trouble on their forum. We laughed about you a bit.
But go ahead and knock yourself out. They're ready for you and your forum account is flagged. I'm sure you will do wonders representing the Aces High community over there.
Oh, and I've said time, and time, and time again...that DCS is not a replacement for AH. It's a different kind of game. The WWII planeset is too thin, plane development takes too long, WWII is not DCS' core competency, and the server just has the wrong architecture to support a 24/7 MMOG in the sense AH has. Something like Enigma's Cold War server was only possible through tons of custom scripting and a lot of coding man-hours. Cudos to them, but they worked really hard to pound a square peg into a round hole.
But thanks for bumping the thread. Here is your reward for today:
Bahahaha, post of the year so far.
Title: Re: State of Sim'ing 2024 Survey
Post by: Animl-AW on January 13, 2025, 07:55:24 AM
Why many have him on ignore. we’ve all seen you 500 sales pitches. We’ve all seen your chilish attacks go on for 20+ pages. I know you had s hand in doxing me. We all saw you attempt to label as a sexual predator. So sit down and shut up with your greaseball professional victim. Crap. Its your track record idiot. You made your rep, get iff your soap box that you created. You talk like no one saw that sht when everyone did. cry me a river, my middle finger isn’t big enough for punks like you. You encourage YKW to stir the game and bbs. You even posted about dcs 5 times in a scenario announcement. You have the mind of a 10 yr old. No offense to 10 yr old. Don’t bark up my tree for the rep you made for yourself here. Its YOU. You are your problem. You can’t take what you put out.
You got ONE PM you DESERVED after 3 threads of 10-20 pages of you acting like a child to me. Stop your victim crap. I stand by that PM.
Talking about PMs3-4 if your own tribe told me what you’re doin that I have you nailed. You have a big mouth. I have s lot if friends out there. If you think you’re going to talk snd plot about me on discord and I’m not goin to hear about it, you’re lost in space.
All because I tried to help OUR game? Pathetic.
Title: Re: State of Sim'ing 2024 Survey
Post by: CptTrips on January 13, 2025, 08:51:23 AM
Why many have him on ignore. we’ve all seen you 500 sales pitches. We’ve all seen your chilish attacks go on for 20+ pages. I know you had s hand in doxing me. We all saw you attempt to label as a sexual predator. So sit down and shut up with your greaseball professional victim. Crap. Its your track record idiot. You made your rep, get iff your soap box that you created. You talk like no one saw that sht when everyone did. cry me a river, my middle finger isn’t big enough for punks like you. You encourage YKW to stir the game and bbs. You even posted about dcs 5 times in a scenario announcement. You have the mind of a 10 yr old. No offense to 10 yr old. Don’t bark up my tree for the rep you made for yourself here. Its YOU. You are your problem. You can’t take what you put out.
You got ONE PM you DESERVED after 3 threads of 10-20 pages of you acting like a child to me. Stop your victim crap. I stand by that PM.
Talking about PMs3-4 if your own tribe told me what you’re doin that I have you nailed. You have a big mouth. I have s lot if friends out there. If you think you’re going to talk snd plot about me on discord and I’m not goin to hear about it, you’re lost in space.
All because I tried to help OUR game? Pathetic.
Animl,
No one here has doxxed you.
You yourself chose to publicly post your own RL name voluntarily when you posted the link to your sad little 5 person FB group.
Strictly for Aces High III associated content. This brand new page I created for those who prefer not to be inundated with spam of other sim/game content. Not sure if it is needed, but it's available.
Still under construction.
Chat, Live Video and Sharing Music is available.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/741971274089149
The info about your long, extensive, and frankly quite shocking, criminal record is publicly posted by the state of Indiana. They don't have a choice. They have to do that by law. If you got a problem with that information be made public (Wow, I don't blame you), take it up with them.
And even still, no one has posted a link to that information here on this board, yet, out of compassion for the shame you must feel about your behavior.
Please, get into treatment. Please, get some professional help.
Title: Re: State of Sim'ing 2024 Survey
Post by: hazmatt on January 13, 2025, 09:44:44 AM
The FM used to be better. It does model some things that some other sims don't like aileron reversal in spits at high speeds but due to complaints it has been dumbed down over time to make it easier and thereby making it all feel kind of generic.
Most of the German pilots for example only use B&Z tactics and seem to have no concept of yo-yo's or scissors or any such tactics.
They kept messing with the strategic bombing stuff too because of complaints. In the first stages of a campaign the allies have havocs and the early model 109s are hard pressed to catch them, much less shoot them down.
Overall my feeling is that the flight part is not their priority. When I quit playing a while back they seemed to be focused on cranking out new content over fixing bugs that have existed for 10 or more years.
This is based on playing it for over 10 years although I have not played it much recently.
Title: Re: State of Sim'ing 2024 Survey
Post by: hazmatt on January 13, 2025, 09:54:28 AM
Combined with 1C's inexplicable decision to put IL2: GB on back burner and go off and start trying to compete with DCS in the jet space. Really? Seriously? Good luck with that.
I agree, this is some dumbazzery in my opinion.
Title: Re: State of Sim'ing 2024 Survey
Post by: hazmatt on January 13, 2025, 10:03:24 AM
You guys do realise that widespread interest in WWII aviation dies with us?
I disagree with that. There are many young people in the game I'm currently playing to the point that I don't think I've ever met somebody older then me. I'm not saying they aren't there, I just haven't met any.
I think that the WWII sims that survive will be the ones that can grab the attention of this younger audience.
Title: Re: State of Sim'ing 2024 Survey
Post by: Spikes on January 13, 2025, 10:05:12 AM
Combined with 1C's inexplicable decision to put IL2: GB on back burner and go off and start trying to compete with DCS in the jet space. Really? Seriously? Good luck with that.
Realistically I am not sure how much more there is to do in WWII. The planesets for WF and EF are pretty fleshed out save heavy bombers (Which don't really fit the nature of IL2 Multiplayer combat anyway) and there are apparently technical issues with 4 engine aircraft or something like that. They pretty much have every major plane type and multiple sub-variants and field mods where there were some. A couple more Italian planes would be cool, but they don't seem keen at all on dipping into MTO.
There is Pacific, of course, but it seems to stray away from the bread and butter they have, plus with CP upcoming there's no real use competing with that. It would be a lot of work to introduce Pacific since the only real assets that can be copied are USAAF planes, would need entire sets of IJAAF/IGN and USN/RN aircraft.
I know IL2 is a household name in the aviation video game space, but it feels like if they really wanted to harness other eras and theaters they should've re-branded a long time ago, somehow strategically dropping the IL2 name.
Title: Re: State of Sim'ing 2024 Survey
Post by: CptTrips on January 13, 2025, 10:46:45 AM
Realistically I am not sure how much more there is to do in WWII.
Oh, IMHO, the amount of things that could be done still is quite large.
They could even redo a better BoB. I don't care that a previous dev had done one two decades before. Do it again better. Can't do something you did decades previously with new technology? Why make a Falcon 5 then? Four other versions of the F-16 sim hadn't already done everything that could be done? OR and Aces High III for that matter. Wasn't everything already done by AH II? Sometimes just a tech reboot is enough justification.
There is Pacific, of course, but it seems to stray away from the bread and butter they have, plus with CP upcoming there's no real use competing with that.
There is exactly a use for competing with that. WWII is their bread and butter and only source of revenue currently. Korea is unproven, years away, and already showing sign of not really being wanted even by a large portion of their own fan base. It's a "forgotten war" era that evokes little emotion in people because no one cared about a UN mandated "Police Action". Not exactly a backstory that inspires.
CP is gunning for their bread and butter with brand new tech and funding. They can walk away from their money printing machine and leave it for CP to take over, or they can fight for it. And CP chose it's franchise name a lot more intelligently so I bet you bucks to Navy beans they don't plan on stopping with the Pacific. Instead they are abandoning their money printing machine to go compete in the jet space with a company that pisses jets for breakfast. With unproven technology that may or may not play out. With a dev team that pretty much was a basket case before Williams straightened them out, and now he is gone again, now he is their competitor. My guess is their team will badly flub this new effort without his guidance with an era no one cares about, abandoning a loyal fan base that didn't ask for that and still has lots they want to see finish and\or explored further.
It makes no sense to me to hand my money printing machine over to a new competitor startup. They have two years probably to get in there first with an update Pacific Fighters for this century and deny CP an unfulfilled niche to get a toehold on their way to taking the whole WWII space. If you let them establish a beachhead with CP, they will eventually take your whole market share, and if Korea flops (65% chance IMHO) then you are left with nothing.
I know IL2 is a household name in the aviation video game space, but it feels like if they really wanted to harness other eras and theaters they should've re-branded a long time ago, somehow strategically dropping the IL2 name.
Agreed. It's stupid. Especially since they imply the road is forward from here. So IL2:Vietnam? IL2: Gulf War? Wut? They'd have been better off leveraging the other part of franchise name. Great Battles. Or maybe Great Air Battles. Still invocative of their previous titles but unshackling from an era specific title that will not make any logical sense going forward. Like: Great Air Battles: Vietnam, Great Air Battles: 6 Day War, etc.
In my opinion, the IL2: Korea thing has a big chance of reliving this brilliant product decision:
$0.02.
Title: Re: State of Sim'ing 2024 Survey
Post by: DmonSlyr on January 13, 2025, 11:04:30 AM
AH now playing 6; 24H peak 11 (actual number: in the arena 36. I can Only guess the 24 hour peak, maybe 130?) Il-2 now playing 431, same as 24h peak (I have no idea how many are playing non steam) DCS now playing 1588, 24h-peak: 1600 (Many if not most are also playing the non steam version) WWII Online: 22 in game now, 25 peak. (I have no idea how many are playing non steam)
for comparison E:D (Thats were I'm at most of my time these days) 8794 /8794
Yeah, See I feel the #s from steam probably turn people away from AH given the low # count. Its misleading. Especially when most download the game outside of steam. The rating just the same probably turning people away too... especially knowing they'll have to pay $15 a month to play and learn the game after 2 weeks...
The difference is that, those other games don't immerse players like AH does. So even with say 1600 playing, they are in a bunch of different servers. I cannot figure out for the life of me why AH doesn't have player hosted servers. They are FTP for crying out loud. I realize they don't get populated easily, but it's really due to them not staying up long enough and building a following in them. Perhaps not being able to leave the arena while doing other things in the game could be an issue.
Nevertheless, with 100 - 130 players on at the same time in the same map, it sometimes feels more populated than those other games because of many players in the same area of the map at the same time fighting it out. I also feel like AH has a better all around scoring system as well as the other games don't have any long term metrics once the server resets.
All in all, If people only go by Steam, its a losing battle for AH if they don't even check out the game because it doesn't look like anyone is playing on top of poor ratings because it's not entirely FTP...among graphics and other things.
Title: Re: State of Sim'ing 2024 Survey
Post by: Animl-AW on January 13, 2025, 02:20:48 PM
Not reading anything. Not back walking anything.
Just sayin, thanks for backing Fugi. I give credit when its due.
Title: Re: State of Sim'ing 2024 Survey
Post by: CptTrips on January 13, 2025, 02:42:30 PM
.
Title: Re: State of Sim'ing 2024 Survey
Post by: AKIron on January 14, 2025, 03:27:45 PM
PCs are getting big upgrades this year. For a long time games, especially flight sims, pushed the hardware. The hardware that will be available in a few months is capable of anything any current game/sim can throw at it, even in VR. I expect flight sims to up their game.
Title: Re: State of Sim'ing 2024 Survey
Post by: CptTrips on January 14, 2025, 05:02:55 PM
PCs are getting big upgrades this year. For a long time games, especially flight sims, pushed the hardware. The hardware that will be available in a few months is capable of anything any current game/sim can throw at it, even in VR. I expect flight sims to up their game.
You mean like new video cards or something?
Title: Re: State of Sim'ing 2024 Survey
Post by: AKIron on January 14, 2025, 05:38:30 PM
Video cards capable of twice the performance of the last gen. That's big. Intel is hinting at much improved performance. AMD won't be upstaged.
Title: Re: State of Sim'ing 2024 Survey
Post by: AKIron on January 14, 2025, 05:55:24 PM
Gen to gen has long been incremental at maybe up to a 50% performance increase. I can't recall the last time we saw a 100% jump.
Title: Re: State of Sim'ing 2024 Survey
Post by: AKIron on January 14, 2025, 06:17:29 PM
If Nvidia is able and/or willing to keep up with demand after the release of their 5000 series cards I expect we'll see used RTX 3070s on bay for less than $200. That will bring many into the modern sim arena.
Title: Re: State of Sim'ing 2024 Survey
Post by: AKIron on January 14, 2025, 06:31:57 PM
Combat sims have always been a niche compared to MSFS. Collectively they *may have surpassed the King in sales but not individually. The greater the realism in both categories the greater effort necessary which means fewer products/updates or a lot more people competing. Approaching reality is asymptotic.
*pure guesswork
Title: Re: State of Sim'ing 2024 Survey
Post by: Spikes on January 17, 2025, 10:01:05 AM
Oh, IMHO, the amount of things that could be done still is quite large.
They could even redo a better BoB. I don't care that a previous dev had done one two decades before. Do it again better. Can't do something you did decades previously with new technology? Why make a Falcon 5 then? Four other versions of the F-16 sim hadn't already done everything that could be done? OR and Aces High III for that matter. Wasn't everything already done by AH II? Sometimes just a tech reboot is enough justification.
Personally, I don't think BoB would be a great seller as a DLC or whatever. There are tons of early war aircraft in IL2 that are seldom used because the majority of the population flock to servers with the late war stuff (Combat Box, for example). One of my/our squad's goals in 2025 is to start running Snapshot style events on our server in IL2 and perhaps dip into the earlier stuff as it's more fun to us. But just like in AH, it's tough to get people to give up their P51 or Tempest.
So of course everything could be done better, but clearly someone there did a cost analysis and determined the best course of action was to take a leap with Korea. As I said in my previous post, I would've preferred MTO and do an Italy map, maybe add a playable medium bomber or two. At least it's a new theater with essentially the same planes (USAAF, RAF v Luftwaffe + some Italian planes). If you hop into Combat Box during an Eastern Front setup they just enable all of the Western Front planes too since people complain about not having a P-51 lol. Kinda dumb.
There is exactly a use for competing with that. WWII is their bread and butter and only source of revenue currently. Korea is unproven, years away, and already showing sign of not really being wanted even by a large portion of their own fan base. It's a "forgotten war" era that evokes little emotion in people because no one cared about a UN mandated "Police Action". Not exactly a backstory that inspires.
CP is gunning for their bread and butter with brand new tech and funding. They can walk away from their money printing machine and leave it for CP to take over, or they can fight for it. And CP chose it's franchise name a lot more intelligently so I bet you bucks to Navy beans they don't plan on stopping with the Pacific. Instead they are abandoning their money printing machine to go compete in the jet space with a company that pisses jets for breakfast. With unproven technology that may or may not play out. With a dev team that pretty much was a basket case before Williams straightened them out, and now he is gone again, now he is their competitor. My guess is their team will badly flub this new effort without his guidance with an era no one cares about, abandoning a loyal fan base that didn't ask for that and still has lots they want to see finish and\or explored further.
It makes no sense to me to hand my money printing machine over to a new competitor startup. They have two years probably to get in there first with an update Pacific Fighters for this century and deny CP an unfulfilled niche to get a toehold on their way to taking the whole WWII space. If you let them establish a beachhead with CP, they will eventually take your whole market share, and if Korea flops (65% chance IMHO) then you are left with nothing.
The only thing Korea will provide, personally, is a slight breath of fresh air with jets, as it's the last era without abundant missiles, radar, tracking, etc. It'll be fun but I agree it's probably going to be a dead end. Everyone will buy it, though.
I hope Combat Pilot does well, more combat flight sims can only be better. It would be ideal if they had some arena capabilities like AH does where events can be run.
Title: Re: State of Sim'ing 2024 Survey
Post by: Eagler on January 17, 2025, 10:36:50 AM
Not everyone...zero interest in Korean War a2a..
Best airwar sim scenario is the European theater..both east and west
The Pacific just doesn't do anything for me either..same with jets with missiles and dar
AH is the best of all things these days..just need smaller maps to match the smaller numbers, a change to dar and kill messages and the game gets a new life imo
Eagler
Title: Re: State of Sim'ing 2024 Survey
Post by: CptTrips on January 17, 2025, 12:01:06 PM
The only thing Korea will provide, personally, is a slight breath of fresh air with jets, as it's the last era without abundant missiles, radar, tracking, etc. It'll be fun but I agree it's probably going to be a dead end. Everyone will buy it, though.
I hope Combat Pilot does well, more combat flight sims can only be better. It would be ideal if they had some arena capabilities like AH does where events can be run.
I could do Korea. Maybe Vietnam.
I'm OK with Jets until you get fly-by-wire and BVR kills. At that point I've lost interest.
To me, one of the most important things about CP is to start moving the center of gravity of the combat flightsim industry back to the West. The industry is currently dominated by all Russian companies.
Title: Re: State of Sim'ing 2024 Survey
Post by: AKIron on January 17, 2025, 12:11:44 PM
Reading that the 5090 may not be twice as fast as the 4090 so we may not see revolutionary changes in flight sims just yet.
Title: Re: State of Sim'ing 2024 Survey
Post by: CptTrips on January 17, 2025, 12:23:09 PM
Reading that the 5090 may not be twice as fast as the 4090 so we may not see revolutionary changes in flight sims just yet.
I think even bigger gains could be made from software side with current GPU. I'd like to see games start being able to use a dedicated GPU to support a bunch of parallel AI processes and offload the CPU.
And dedicated server type software might get huge benefits from a capability like that as the AI logic is running on the server sharing the CPU with other server tasks.
Maybe not just AI, but clients could use a GPU for more complex fluid dynamics and such.
Title: Re: State of Sim'ing 2024 Survey
Post by: AKIron on January 17, 2025, 12:57:35 PM
Scalability is important with a large and diverse hardware audience. Letting a server (dedicated or dual function client/server) handle all AI processing would certainly see no shortage of folks buying whatever hardware is needed to get the best AI performance. Of course for pure player vs player environments we've long had the hardware necessary to support many in one arena.
Title: Re: State of Sim'ing 2024 Survey
Post by: AKIron on January 17, 2025, 01:05:13 PM
Eventually, maybe sooner than later, wars will be waged AI vs AI. What better way to prepare them than letting them learn through controlling units in realistic battlefield simulations with human opponents?
Title: Re: State of Sim'ing 2024 Survey
Post by: AKIron on January 17, 2025, 01:29:35 PM
But don't let WOPR get the codes.
Title: Re: State of Sim'ing 2024 Survey
Post by: Eagler on January 17, 2025, 03:33:17 PM
Modern sims have shown me that a pretty youtube video doesn't mean an enjoyable game necessarily but does scream bleeding edge hardware $$$$$'s..
Eagler
Title: Re: State of Sim'ing 2024 Survey
Post by: CptTrips on January 17, 2025, 03:47:11 PM
Modern sims have shown me that a pretty youtube video doesn't mean an enjoyable game necessarily but does scream bleeding edge hardware $$$$$'s..
Eagler
Agreed Its hard for me to take a small group of like mindset has the answers for all sims and what players really want.
The emphasis seems to always include AI dominance. But as mist know the average player us not clinging to AI nor asking for it.
Its a fad that has never carried weight with players. Pretty much only those who like programming it likes it as thats THEIR thing, but its not the average players thing.
Dump a bunch of AI in the MA to players conditioned to play MP and I’ll slap money on the table to bet that it will empty. Players who don’t know better just play along.
I’m not the only one who thinks if its not MP I’m wasting my time, and 32-80 on questionable servers does not excite me, at all. Its a step backwards to the era of Counter Strike.
Even as informative this survey is, like any poll, it depends who responds to it. But MP seems to be top tear. No one is asking for AI, people who enjoy programming it do. Players in AH think 2 AI bombers with one pilot is kinda bogus. These games and this group are pushing what the players are not asking for.
If it were a different group I may say different, not this one tho. I don’t mind people mentioning sims. But this group has proven many times to not have good intensions. Its just the 101 approach. As one says, “making their case”. just very slowly now.
“Look, AH is so low its not even on the chart”. First two replies points it out.
Promote it there minimize it here makes zero sense to me other than its a hook there to listen here.
By what they have done to me, and countless attempts here they are not honest people.mire than willing to deceive. Its character assassination to remove credibility of pointing things out. Why would someone constantly attack someone who is trying to help this sim? Even attacking my vids. Knowingly selling planes that cannot be supported only stopping when it was exposed.
When I was working with AW, all those years, not one single player ever belittled my intensions, not one, not ever. Even my biggest rivals never went there. This group capitalizes on it. Ask yourself why.
So which one is it? How is this helping our sim? You’re being coached. Last time they pulled this we lost 20-40 players. Yet still here we are biting the repeat hook yet again.
Any other folks, sure ok , this group absolutely not. Its not just me, players there tell me I’m right here.
Take note: they didn’t like me mere mention of AH there in s single sentence there what they do here in 2000. Do as I say, not as I do. They insult me here, yet when I respond they stand on the report button.
Know who you’re dealing with.
Title: Re: State of Sim'ing 2024 Survey
Post by: Animl-AW on January 18, 2025, 09:27:45 AM
Question for trips Why do you build AH up on redit, which we appreciate, yet can’t bring yourself to say the same things here on its own forum?
Title: Re: State of Sim'ing 2024 Survey
Post by: Eagler on January 18, 2025, 10:09:20 AM
Interesting..
Eagler
Title: Re: State of Sim'ing 2024 Survey
Post by: AKIron on January 18, 2025, 10:29:42 AM
Of course you need to see this one to know what he is talking about.
Not sure why but I didn't get quite the thrill out of that one compare to the 2024 one. That doesn't seem to be a common reaction. I might have just been in a mood. The breakdowns are pointing out a lot of stuff I didn't notice. And the jet stuff doesn't thrill me as much as others.
The Corsair and F6F were squarely in the 2025 section (They weren't in the "Future Development" section at least), so I have to conclude they still intend to get those out this year. But I'd have preferred a larger showcasing of what's coming in WWII. The WWII footage was much longer in the 2024 vid. I still think with IL2 walking away from active WWII development, and CP still being an unknown variable that is a couple of years off, the WWII market could be smart strategic move. Add that jewel to their crown and dominate that genre they way they already do with rotary and modern jet. They are so running out of compelling jets to make that they are resorting to "Let's make stuff up"-F-35 realm. That well may be running dry. We'll see.
Dynamic Campaign Engine will be interesting to see. Could be a game-changer. I'm skeptical though. We'll see.
Title: Re: State of Sim'ing 2024 Survey
Post by: Animl-AW on January 18, 2025, 11:04:04 AM
Smh
Title: Re: State of Sim'ing 2024 Survey
Post by: AKIron on January 18, 2025, 11:38:52 AM
A Dynamic Campaign in which you can define what units are available and where, roe, victory conditions, etc... will be welcomed by me. This somewhat available through scripted missions now though not without a lot of effort and management by the hosts.
Title: Re: State of Sim'ing 2024 Survey
Post by: AKIron on January 18, 2025, 11:43:23 AM
The N word I want is NUKES. Big fluffy mushroom clouds.
and rideable nukular bombs
Title: Re: State of Sim'ing 2024 Survey
Post by: AKIron on January 18, 2025, 11:49:55 AM
During the Vietnam War Napalm was frowned upon. So the USAF changed the name to Incendigel.
Title: Re: State of Sim'ing 2024 Survey
Post by: CptTrips on January 18, 2025, 11:58:50 AM
Question for trips Why do you build AH up on redit, which we appreciate, yet can’t bring yourself to say the same things here on its own forum?
Is your ego so fragile and are you so desperate for external validation that I have to do nothing but blow propaganda sunshine up your skirt 24/7? Wait. Nevermind. I can’t believe I just asked YOU that question.
First of all, I don’t build up anything. Nor do I tear it down. In all cases I’m trying to call it like I see it. Fair, but unvarnished. I have no interest in propaganda. You see the positive things I say as legitimate, and see any problems I point out as disloyalty to the cult. I just see both as the truth as I see it. If I get something factually wrong, please correct me. But I’ll express whatever opinion I have, any way I want. Positive or negative. I accept none of the restriction you want to put on my speech.
Someone asked specifically what were the benefits the $15\mo got you. I answered that as honestly as I could. If they asked me where AH fails and were it is not able to keep up with the market, and why I think it is failing to attract new players, pull up a chair I can equally give you an ear full. That isn’t was I was asked.
I will never spread propaganda for you. I will offer my fair and unvarnished opinion and when parts of that are negative, then you’re just going to have to deal. I made a fair pitch to the 1946 guys because I can look them in the eye and truly argue they would benefit to adding AH as their MP solution. And I would believe that, and they can tell I honestly believe it. I will not make that argument to the IL2: GB or DCS crowd because I simply don’t believe the vast majority of them would find AH satisfactory compared to their current sims. I won’t make a pitch I don’t 100% believe myself. If someone disagrees, they are free to go make that pitch, it’s just not one I will vouch for. You can’t see that as an attempt to keep it real and be honest. Instead, you see that as disloyalty to the cult which I never joined.
As far as what I post here, I see no benefit wasting my time blowing sunshine up your skirts. Everyone here knows what AH’s good points are. That’s why they have accounts. That’s the easy path. My life would be easier if I went along with the cults and only ever said all the wonderful things about AH and whistle past it’s flaws with no notice. That would make the cult happy and save me a bunch of grief. I could be one of the cool kids.
That would not only be intellectually dishonest, but practically unhelpful. What this audience needs to hear is where is AH messing up. Why is AH not able to attract new customers? Where are the 600 players a night we used to have? Why has AH never been able to replace them? What is it that is causing a possibly less than 1% conversion rate on trial downloads? The sale is not being made, admit that openly. What are the flaws holding AH back? How can it be fixed? Can it be fixed? Is anyone really interested in fixing anything or is the logic just to let it all slowly rot?
Those are hard discussions. It’s not positive fluffy substanceless propaganda. It’s painful sometimes to make a hard honest appraisal of performance, but it’s what you have to do to pursue excellence.
I have never in my life seen serious problems solved by happy-face, delusional, magical, wishful thinking.
Title: Re: State of Sim'ing 2024 Survey
Post by: AKIron on January 18, 2025, 12:08:32 PM
Is your ego so fragile and are you so desperate for external validation that I have to do nothing but blow propaganda sunshine up your skirt 24/7? Wait. Nevermind. I can’t believe I just asked YOU that question.
First of all, I don’t build up anything. Nor do I tear it down. In all cases I’m trying to call it like I see it. Fair, but unvarnished. I have no interest in propaganda. You see the positive things I say as legitimate, and see any problems I point out as disloyalty to the cult. I just see both as the truth as I see it. If I get something factually wrong, please correct me. But I’ll express whatever opinion I have, any way I want. Positive or negative. I accept none of the restriction you want to put on my speech.
Someone asked specifically what were the benefits the $15\mo got you. I answered that as honestly as I could. If they asked me where AH fails and were it is not able to keep up with the market, and why I think it is failing to attract new players, pull up a chair I can equally give you an ear full. That isn’t was I was asked.
I will never spread propaganda for you. I will offer my fair and unvarnished opinion and when parts of that are negative, then you’re just going to have to deal. I made a fair pitch to the 1946 guys because I can look them in the eye and truly argue they would benefit to adding AH as their MP solution. And I would believe that, and they can tell I honestly believe it. I will not make that argument to the IL2: GB or DCS crowd because I simply don’t believe the vast majority of them would find AH satisfactory compared to their current sims. I won’t make a pitch I don’t 100% believe myself. If someone disagrees, they are free to go make that pitch, it’s just not one I will vouch for. You can’t see that as an attempt to keep it real and be honest. Instead, you see that as disloyalty to the cult which I never joined.
As far as what I post here, I see no benefit wasting my time blowing sunshine up your skirts. Everyone here knows what AH’s good points are. That’s why they have accounts. That’s the easy path. My life would be easier if I went along with the cults and only ever said all the wonderful things about AH and whistle past it’s flaws with no notice. That would make the cult happy and save me a bunch of grief. I could be one of the cool kids.
That would not only be intellectually dishonest, but practically unhelpful. What this audience needs to hear is where is AH messing up. Why is AH not able to attract new customers? Where are the 600 players a night we used to have? Why has AH never been able to replace them? What is it that is causing a possibly less than 1% conversion rate on trial downloads? The sale is not being made, admit that openly. What are the flaws holding AH back? How can it be fixed? Can it be fixed? Is anyone really interested in fixing anything or is the logic just to let it all slowly rot?
Those are hard discussions. It’s not positive fluffy substanceless propaganda. It’s painful sometimes to make a hard honest appraisal of performance, but it’s what you have to do to pursue excellence. I have never in my life seen serious problems solved by happy-face, delusional, magical, wishful thinking.
No you just make stuff up about people then play lil innocent lamb when they push back. Projecting yourself on to them who did not a damn thing to you? YOU, King IDIOT, started all this riff between you and me, and we can revisit those threads if you like. It's YOU.
see We all it would lead to negative AH
Beat it punk, you make me vomit
Title: Re: State of Sim'ing 2024 Survey
Post by: CptTrips on January 18, 2025, 01:39:48 PM
No you just make stuff up about people then play lil innocent lamb when they push back. Projecting yourself on to them who did not a damn thing to you? YOU, King IDIOT, started all this riff between you and me, and we can revisit those threads if you like. It's YOU.
see We all it would lead to negative AH
Beat it punk, you make me vomit
Back to my sig line, Animl.
You have no power over me. Flail all you want.
Title: Re: State of Sim'ing 2024 Survey
Post by: CptTrips on January 18, 2025, 02:22:29 PM
I will never spread propaganda for you. I will offer my fair and unvarnished opinion and when parts of that are negative, then you’re just going to have to deal. I made a fair pitch to the 1946 guys because I can look them in the eye and truly argue they would benefit to adding AH as their MP solution. And I would believe that, and they can tell I honestly believe it. I will not make that argument to the IL2: GB or DCS crowd because I simply don’t believe the vast majority of them would find AH satisfactory compared to their current sims. I won’t make a pitch I don’t 100% believe myself. If someone disagrees, they are free to go make that pitch, it’s just not one I will vouch for. You can’t see that as an attempt to keep it real and be honest. Instead, you see that as disloyalty to the cult which I never joined.
I have felt that cult like feeling too. It's pretty much why I don't post a whole lot here any more. An example was when I mention WT which is the game with the most massive numbers and maybe some ideas to attract some of those numbers and it turns into an attack on WT and how AH is so much better with it's arenas that can hold 500 players that don't.
I was curious why you didn't mention WT? It seems most people that attack it don't know anything about it which I find interesting. People that say it's "gamey" obviously haven't flown the simulator battles where there's no icons on enemies, icons only appear on friendlies at very close range, things like "friendly" fire are modeled (and penalized) and you have to manage your trim and can't run your engine wide open without burning it up and there is no AWACS for proximity radar.
Some might say that simulator mode has a lot more realism then AH3 in that just like IL2 there's a really good chance you will get bounced if you're not paying attention. Engine management was a big part of flying WW II planes as well as having to identify a plane that doesn't have an icon with range showing 5 miles away.
I agree with you that there are things that can be done that would make it more attractive to the people who play the other sims but I've given up on putting any advice here as I know it would be attacked by the cult :)
I am very curious about the WT thing though. Is there a specific reason you left it out when it has such massive numbers?
Title: Re: State of Sim'ing 2024 Survey
Post by: hazmatt on January 18, 2025, 05:24:13 PM
Double posted. No option to delete.
Title: Re: State of Sim'ing 2024 Survey
Post by: CptTrips on January 18, 2025, 05:36:12 PM
I am very curious about the WT thing though. Is there a specific reason you left it out when it has such massive numbers?
I'm confused. What did I leave it out of? It's mentioned in those surveys. Enigma recent did some interesting videos on it lately. It's a huge money maker.
I haven't played it. I tried it very briefly a couple of years ago but I hadn't realized about the sim mode. I didn't like the arcade mode.
[Edit] I assume you realize that is not my video. I didn't run the survey.
Title: Re: State of Sim'ing 2024 Survey
Post by: Brooke on January 19, 2025, 12:58:24 AM
I’m not the only one who thinks if its not MP I’m wasting my time
That's me, too.
I don't desire -- at all -- to have air combat vs. computer opponents. Single player has no appeal to me.
Multiplayer is a whole extra dimension. Multiplayer to single player, to me, is like a prime-rib dinner vs. McDonald's cheeseburger.
Scenarios a whole extra dimension above that. To me, as much more fun than regular multiplayer as regular multiplayer is above single player.
I started playing on-line multiplayer air combat in 1988. I still love scenarios so much, that they are still my main hobby.
Title: Re: State of Sim'ing 2024 Survey
Post by: Eagler on January 19, 2025, 06:59:04 AM
There is the customer that doesn't have the needed internet connection for MP gaming and only has offline play available...
AH can't compete with IL2 or DCS in that arena
Eagler
Title: Re: State of Sim'ing 2024 Survey
Post by: AKIron on January 19, 2025, 08:27:46 AM
I remember when IL-2 first came out. 2001? Chatting with an AH squad member and told him I thought the IL-2 graphics were better and would like to see AH and IL-2 collaborate. He didn't agree and of course there was no collaboration. Graphics are important, to almost everyone. So is realism in both modeling and physics.
Title: Re: State of Sim'ing 2024 Survey
Post by: CptTrips on January 19, 2025, 08:54:11 AM
I remember when IL-2 first came out. 2001? Chatting with an AH squad member and told him I thought the IL-2 graphics were better and would like to see AH and IL-2 collaborate. He didn't agree and of course there was no collaboration. Graphics are important, to almost everyone. So is realism in both modeling and physics.
As I've stated before, the three biggest headwinds I see holding AH back, in order of relative importance:
1. Graphics that no longer compete. 2. A monetization model that is a real hard sell nowadays, and out of alignment with current preferences and expectations the market has formed. 3. A lack of any viable SP content.
3 is not a deal-breaker, but doesn't help at all. Enigma's survey is just really a survey of his YT viewers which would be DCS\MP skewed. We know from comments made by William's that from their direct hard internally tracked data of the IL2 client base, the vast majority of their customers were SP only or VERY SP centric. That's a nice fat paycheck from a reasonably quite and reliable customer base that keeps buying your new versions. You get their revenue up front and don't have to hope they don't get bored and cancel after a month. SP funds MP. They probably couldn't have survived off MP alone. Same for DCS. And having built an MP product, you've built half of your SP already anyway.
WT can get away with it, but they have other strategies that overcome that disadvantage like their FTP design which AH also doesn't have.
IMHO, $0.02, etc, etc.
Title: Re: State of Sim'ing 2024 Survey
Post by: AKIron on January 19, 2025, 08:57:26 AM
Same time frame. We've come a long ways in 20 years.
I remember when IL-2 first came out. 2001? Chatting with an AH squad member and told him I thought the IL-2 graphics were better and would like to see AH and IL-2 collaborate. He didn't agree and of course there was no collaboration. Graphics are important, to almost everyone. So is realism in both modeling and physics.
Have you tried AH and IL2 with max graphics in VR?
Title: Re: State of Sim'ing 2024 Survey
Post by: AKIron on January 19, 2025, 09:37:42 AM
I had a CR1 Oculus Rift and later Quest 2. I tried AH in VR but not sure I tried IL-2. I have neither now and no VR. VR resolutions are much better now but I'm happy with a 2D screen and probably won't ever go back to VR.
Title: Re: State of Sim'ing 2024 Survey
Post by: AKIron on January 19, 2025, 09:39:51 AM
I'll consider a mixed reality headset when performance and cost make me an offer I can't refuse.
Brother nearby has a Pimax Crystal and a 4090 to drive it. Performance is good and clarity is very good. He has pointctrl which works well enough but all of it's just not worth the trouble for me.
Title: Re: State of Sim'ing 2024 Survey
Post by: CptTrips on January 19, 2025, 09:42:43 AM
Have you tried AH and IL2 with max graphics in VR?
I haven't, but I'll add a data point.
I was recently doing a review of the current IL2-1946 with the add on community mega-patches. You have to include the upgrades from the mega-patches because AH has also had it's visual upgrades over the years.
A fully mega-patched IL2-1946 looks very similar to me to current AH III. Why I immediately thought, man, people could hop back and forth comfortably. They are very similar. The differences are mainly a wash. 1946 has better terrain and cities, AHIII has better clouds and atmospherics.
I don't think AHIII can meaningfully compete with current IL2-GB or DCS or WT in the graphics realm, IMHO.
Title: Re: State of Sim'ing 2024 Survey
Post by: The Fugitive on January 19, 2025, 10:04:28 AM
I remember when IL-2 first came out. 2001? Chatting with an AH squad member and told him I thought the IL-2 graphics were better and would like to see AH and IL-2 collaborate. He didn't agree and of course there was no collaboration. Graphics are important, to almost everyone. So is realism in both modeling and physics.
I dont agree with that at all. Graphics may be important to some but not "almost everyone". I know 30+ people in my squad that would rather fly together in AH with its "not up to date" graphics than spend any time flying pretty planes in DCS. Personally I could never understand the attraction of "Microsoft Flight Simulator". Plane checks, warm ups, taxi to runway while getting instructions from the tower, wait for permission to launch, fly a charted course, request permission to enter airspace, request permission to land, follow instructions on landing runway and taxi info and shut down at the gate. Hell I was bored just writing this!
DCS is much the same to me. Way to much time mapping keys, too much time learning those keys, too much time on start-up and launch, too much time to target, and if lucky an enemy aircraft to fight. Just too much time wasted. Sure its pretty as hell, but not much fun, just boring.
Its very nitch game, more so than Aces High. MSFS caters to those people who are afraid to fly, or like to build their own cockpits (which Ive done) or they would have taken the time to get their licenses and done it for real. It seems to me that those in DCS are afraid to fly against real people and so hide behind pretty planes that can shoot down AI. I havent played IL2 for years so Im not sure what they are up to, but if it was better than what we have at Aces High, Aces High would be empty.
With me pushing my YouTube channel on different media outlets a majority of the posts/comments I have been getting from people say "Aces High is still around?".
Personally I think the action far out ways the "pretty planes" aspect any day. VR is handled so much better in AH than any other flight sim Ive played even if the resolution isnt there. The action and how immersive VR makes it is as Brooke said, "is like a prime-rib dinner vs. McDonald's cheeseburger".
Title: Re: State of Sim'ing 2024 Survey
Post by: AKIron on January 19, 2025, 10:11:28 AM
What I said is true. You're being defensive of AH. If graphics were not important to almost everyone they never would have progressed to the point they are today and we'd all be playing on Nintendo consoles.
The "pretty planes" defense is weak btw. It says denial to me every time I see it used.
Title: Re: State of Sim'ing 2024 Survey
Post by: AKIron on January 19, 2025, 10:22:09 AM
Don't get me wrong. I enjoyed Aces high as much as anyone. This forum however is not just for fan boys and this particular thread is not AH vs everything else. If AH were truly as great as you and some others here feel it should be there wouldn't be the disparity in interest. I applaud your efforts to draw interest but reality is that I make half assed youtube videos mostly on DCS and I have an aggregate of over 87,000 views. Does anyone here come close to that with AH videos?
Of course if all you want is views just make dog or cat videos.
Title: Re: State of Sim'ing 2024 Survey
Post by: CptTrips on January 19, 2025, 10:25:09 AM
What I said is true. You're being defensive of AH. If graphics were not important to almost everyone they never would have progressed to the point they are today and we'd all be playing on Nintendo consoles.
The "pretty planes" defense is weak btw. It says denial to me every time I see it used.
Other comments from Fugi's Reddit thread:
Quote
“These days I think ppl avoid it mainly because of the monthly subscription and there are other alternatives for multiplayer (War Thunder, IL-2 etc), plus Steam regional pricing. Graphics fidelity is also another factor.”
Quote
“Subscription based games are a hard sell nowadays. “
Quote
“ remember there being commercials for that game on cable TV lol. I always thought it had a subscription like WOW so I never looked into it because my mom was never going to pay for something like that lol. “
Quote
“If I wanted to pay $15 a month to play a 25 year old game, I’d play iRacing. “
If you are going to try and learn from interacting with broader market, you need to listen to all their comments, not just the ones you like.
Listen to the criticism if you are looking for where you might need to improve. Listen to the praise if you need to be stroked.
Title: Re: State of Sim'ing 2024 Survey
Post by: CptTrips on January 19, 2025, 10:34:43 AM
I dont agree with that at all. Graphics may be important to some but not "almost everyone". I know 30+ people in my squad that would rather fly together in AH with its "not up to date" graphics than spend any time flying pretty planes in DCS.
And those 30+ old geezers probably grew up on AW and WB. So, that is not surprising.
As far as the current market that didn't, where are your customers at?
You honestly feel it's only because of advertising? OK. Animl made a passable vid that could be used in an advertisement. Setup a Go-Fund-me and get enough money from the current player base to fund a months worth of media advertising and go prove your point with HT's permission.
If you are correct, that should show a noticeable bump in account creation. If you can show HT a positive ROI on the advertising test with hard data, I have no doubt he will raise the VC funds to turn on some serious advertising volume and rake in the cash.
Title: Re: State of Sim'ing 2024 Survey
Post by: DmonSlyr on January 19, 2025, 10:41:46 AM
If you are going to try and learn from interacting with broader market, you need to listen to all their comments, not just the ones you like.
Listen to the criticism if you are looking for where you might need to improve. Listen to the praise if you need to be stroked.
No doubt the subscription is the #1 thing holding AH back. Its just incredibly tough to get an old player to subscribe again just to try the game again. For example, i still hop into Il2 from time to time, but its not my favorite, so if I had to pay $15 just to play it again for a month, I'm not sure I would because I'm not sure how much time I could put into, or if I even wanted to.. thats probably the conundrum so many have. We really need some server FTP custom arenas to get popular in AH. That would go a long way IMO.
Title: Re: State of Sim'ing 2024 Survey
Post by: CptTrips on January 19, 2025, 10:53:44 AM
No doubt the subscription is the #1 thing holding AH back.
Maybe. It's close.
IMHO, graphics have the edge in importance. I think many are not getting further along enough in the sales pipeline to even consider the subscription.
I think, like curb appeal in real-estate, if they pull up and the front looks like an old shack, they are not really even going to care what the loan terms are. In the first 5 seconds of laying eyes on the property, they are like, "Nope. Drive on to the next listing. No need to stop here."
I think the graphics lose you the first large cohort, those that get past that are then culled once they find out it is subscription only without any F2P to entice them.
Fugi's experience with his squamates does suggest a solution though (Assuming that a complete graphics overhaul, reimagining of the monetization model, and the addition of F2P are off the table as possibilities), I don't think there is any realistic chance of attracting meaningful numbers of new, durable customers.
The only path I see is viable is some how reactivating all the old previous players of AH to come back for one last hurahh before the circus leaves town. That is going to have to take some kind of plan\incentive and effort because obviously it is not going to happen in high enough numbers on it's own to turn the tide.
All those old players are demographically hitting retirement about now. It would be the best time of suggesting how they should spend some of that new found free-time.
Title: Re: State of Sim'ing 2024 Survey
Post by: Eagler on January 19, 2025, 11:20:59 AM
Free two weeks should be extended to 90 days
What do you have to lose?
Eagler
Title: Re: State of Sim'ing 2024 Survey
Post by: LCADolby on January 19, 2025, 11:21:20 AM
What I said is true. You're being defensive of AH. If graphics were not important to almost everyone they never would have progressed to the point they are today and we'd all be playing on Nintendo consoles.
The "pretty planes" defense is weak btw. It says denial to me every time I see it used.
Don't get me wrong. I enjoyed Aces high as much as anyone. This forum however is not just for fan boys and this particular thread is not AH vs everything else. If AH were truly as great as you and some others here feel it should be there wouldn't be the disparity in interest. I applaud your efforts to draw interest but reality is that I make half assed youtube videos mostly on DCS and I have an aggregate of over 87,000 views. Does anyone here come close to that with AH videos?
Of course if all you want is views just make dog or cat videos.
OH I get it, I cant be a "fanboi" and stand up for why I think Aces High is better, but you can come here and stand up for DCS and brag about your total youtube views. Sounds a bit lopsided to me. On the other hand, we really are the same. You believe your multi million dollars investment of a game with the "pretty planes" is the best game out there, where I think our cheap, easy to run action packed game is the best and nothing either one of us has to say will convince the other they are wrong.
This is where I agree with Animl. If you dont believe Hitech is going to do any more work on AH, that the game is dieing its slow death, and you dont plan on ever playing again (unless they fix a bunch of things like graphics, realism, and subscriptions) Why are you even here?
Title: Re: State of Sim'ing 2024 Survey
Post by: CptTrips on January 19, 2025, 01:35:41 PM
OH I get it, I cant be a "fanboi" and stand up for why I think Aces High is better, but you can come here and stand up for DCS and brag about your total youtube views. Sounds a bit lopsided to me. On the other hand, we really are the same. You believe your multi million dollars investment of a game with the "pretty planes" is the best game out there, where I think our cheap, easy to run action packed game is the best and nothing either one of us has to say will convince the other they are wrong.
This is where I agree with Animl. If you dont believe Hitech is going to do any more work on AH, that the game is dieing its slow death, and you dont plan on ever playing again (unless they fix a bunch of things like graphics, realism, and subscriptions) Why are you even here?
I suspect you and animl agree on a lot of things. I don't owe you an explanation for my presence.
Title: Re: State of Sim'ing 2024 Survey
Post by: Busher on January 19, 2025, 05:13:32 PM
You're just trying to take the argument ad hominem because you have no answers.
Back to topic.
Where are the customers at? Why did 600 a night leave? Why have they never been replaced?
Only my 2 cents but when AH2 went to AH3 a huge block of customers no longer had a machine that would handle the game. Seems they did not re-visit even if they completed an upgrade.
Title: Re: State of Sim'ing 2024 Survey
Post by: CptTrips on January 19, 2025, 05:30:59 PM
Only my 2 cents but when AH2 went to AH3 a huge block of customers no longer had a machine that would handle the game. Seems they did not re-visit even if they completed an upgrade.
That would have been 2017ish?
Lusche had a pretty interesting graph estimating player count off some proxy measurement like Kills per tour or something?
I seemed to remember the down trend starting way before that. I think his graph looked like things had rolled over around 2009ish? It's been a sleigh ride down ever since, though it has flattened a bit last couple of years.
Doesn't mean events like AHIII didn't give it a booster kick along the way.
I Kinda felt like canceling of Tour of Duty and the arena split were similar kicks down the slope.
But that doesn't explain why AH can't seem to attract new players to replace them.
Title: Re: State of Sim'ing 2024 Survey
Post by: Busher on January 19, 2025, 06:03:38 PM
Maybe because those who had a serious interest in WW2 are too old or dead.
FLightsims are a niche and certainly WWII is a niche in that niche.
But someone with money is backing CP with seed money. They are risking money to start an entirely new greenfield franchise in the WWII space. I guess they still see sufficient interest in the genre to justify that investment. Nothing like cash as a vote of confidence.
Title: Re: State of Sim'ing 2024 Survey
Post by: AKIron on January 20, 2025, 08:34:56 AM
There isn't a significant hardware difference between AHII and AHIII. I don't buy that as a reason for more than a few dropping out.
Title: Re: State of Sim'ing 2024 Survey
Post by: DmonSlyr on January 20, 2025, 09:04:11 AM
I think there are many reasons TBH. 0 marketing. Then when they do find out about it. Oh there's a subscription to play, then if they decide no big deal, they try the game. Then they see the graphics (if coming from DCS or WT it seems old and arcady). Then if they get that far have to figure out how to set up joystick/mouse ect just to fly. Then once they are in the air, get rick rolled after 10 minutes of climb out by 2CMEX in their noob mode tempest along with all the vets in their spit16s. Then if they are still there after that, they realize "damn this is a tough game do i want to continue $15 a month. And from there, they either want to learn how to be a successful online pilot, or log and try to learn another flight sim. TBH, all of them have learning curves and if I must say, AH is probably the easiest to see where the action is and find a fight, but again, constantly flying against vets in their easy modes makes the game so much harder for noobs to not feel like they are wasting their time.
Title: Re: State of Sim'ing 2024 Survey
Post by: Spikes on January 20, 2025, 09:07:48 AM
Are you saying this thread is why AH hasn't attracted new players since 2009?
The constant merry-go-round from people who haven't played this game in years certainly doesn't help and is quite exhausting. I don't see the need to endlessly compare AH to these other various games. AH and IL2 weren't even originally designed to be direct competitors.
The constant merry-go-round from people who haven't played this game in years certainly doesn't help and is quite exhausting. I don't see the need to endlessly compare AH to these other various games. AH and IL2 weren't even originally designed to be direct competitors. Well the recommended processor speed went up 35%, RAM doubled, and video card specs quadrupled. What is 'significant' to you?
m
1) attempt to irritate players like Animl 2) to finally be able to convince AH is dead, and BTW DCS WWII is lacking seasoned pilots, come over here “brother”.
Everyone knows what this group of former players is up to. Cordial doesn’t work, they play by different rules. “ you can’t stop me”.
Do not debate thier talking points, they are idiotic attempts to make you keep this thread on top. And they’ll judt repeat them 200 times in different context.
The redit thing was a setup to discourage. Same as any interview with HT.
These guys should put on old farmer lady dresses because they make old biddies look good. Evidently, they avoided maturity with great success.
Its a lot different ehen others mention other sims, this is not the same.
Because of ongoing patterns what these guys need is the boot. This is the core of the last 3-4 booted.
Title: Re: State of Sim'ing 2024 Survey
Post by: AKIron on January 20, 2025, 09:33:06 AM
The constant merry-go-round from people who haven't played this game in years certainly doesn't help and is quite exhausting. I don't see the need to endlessly compare AH to these other various games. AH and IL2 weren't even originally designed to be direct competitors. Well the recommended processor speed went up 35%, RAM doubled, and video card specs quadrupled. What is 'significant' to you?
Recommended and required often have a wide gap. What was the difference between the requirements? Is there no configuration that would allow AHIII to perform similarly to AHII?
Title: Re: State of Sim'ing 2024 Survey
Post by: AKIron on January 20, 2025, 09:34:40 AM
1) attempt to irritate players like Animl 2) to finally be able to convince AH is dead, and BTW DCS WWII is lacking seasoned pilots, come over here “brother”.
Everyone knows what this group of former players is up to. Cordial doesn’t work, they play by different rules. “ you can’t stop me”.
Do not debate thier talking points, they are idiotic attempts to make you keep this thread on top. And they’ll judt repeat them 200 times in different context.
The redit thing was a setup to discourage. Same as any interview with HT.
These guys should put on old farmer lady dresses because they make old biddies look good. Evidently, they avoided maturity with great success.
Go away troll.
Title: Re: State of Sim'ing 2024 Survey
Post by: Animl-AW on January 20, 2025, 09:40:51 AM
Projection We all know you’re the former player troll.
This thread is a troll
Beat it idiot
Title: Re: State of Sim'ing 2024 Survey
Post by: AKIron on January 20, 2025, 09:46:04 AM
AH III requirements are obviously easy to find and are below. So AHIII came out in 2017? That would make the stiffest hardware requirement there a 9 year old video card at that time.
Recommended and required often have a wide gap. What was the difference between the requirements? Is there no configuration that would allow AHIII to perform similarly to AHII?
Minimum to minimum is: Double CPU requirement, double RAM requirement, double GPU requirement. Recommended becomes the minimum, though I feel it is disingenuous to advertise there's 'no significant difference' when a player goes from playing a game on normal settings fine to struggling to play on low settings.
With that said, I had little empathy for folks who couldn't continue to play AH on their Compaqs.
Title: Re: State of Sim'ing 2024 Survey
Post by: CptTrips on January 20, 2025, 10:05:45 AM
The constant merry-go-round from people who haven't played this game in years certainly doesn't help and is quite exhausting. I don't see the need to endlessly compare AH to these other various games. AH and IL2 weren't even originally designed to be direct competitors.
Shrug.
Then don't open the thread. No one forces you to read it, or post in it.
Title: Re: State of Sim'ing 2024 Survey
Post by: CptTrips on January 20, 2025, 10:11:33 AM
Recommended and required often have a wide gap. What was the difference between the requirements? Is there no configuration that would allow AHIII to perform similarly to AHII?
I know a lot of the GV'ers were having fits over the trees.
I suspect some of the FPS complaints as veiled complaints about the trees impact on performance by proxy.
Title: Re: State of Sim'ing 2024 Survey
Post by: Lusche on January 20, 2025, 10:24:28 AM
Well the recommended processor speed went up 35%, RAM doubled, and video card specs quadrupled. What is 'significant' to you?
There are always some players who can't ore aren't willing to upgrade, but stagnation is far more hurting to a live game. And the new specs were still very low for that time. I had was running AHIII without problems on a potato that struggled a lot with modern games at the time. Some players may have left, but overall not too many and numbers didn't take any significant hit.
That decline definitely shallowed out. I think you are down to your lifer population. I think the ones you have left will decrease proportional to demographic mortality rates.
Whether it ever ticks up again, is an open question.
Title: Re: State of Sim'ing 2024 Survey
Post by: hazmatt on January 20, 2025, 10:54:11 AM
I'm confused. What did I leave it out of? It's mentioned in those surveys. Enigma recent did some interesting videos on it lately. It's a huge money maker.
I haven't played it. I tried it very briefly a couple of years ago but I hadn't realized about the sim mode. I didn't like the arcade mode.
[Edit] I assume you realize that is not my video. I didn't run the survey.
I meant in your write up. It makes sense though if you aren't playing it that you wouldn't make comments about it :)
Title: Re: State of Sim'ing 2024 Survey
Post by: DmonSlyr on January 20, 2025, 11:03:46 AM
I mean we do have updates... like the new US map. Was that promoted on steam? It wasn't promoted on the main website.
I don't understand that.
Title: Re: State of Sim'ing 2024 Survey
Post by: CptTrips on January 20, 2025, 11:06:56 AM
It's further down the fidelity spectrum where things are shaping up for a fight. I expect Combat Pilot will be fitting in there between IL2-GB and DCS.
That is the part of the sim space that is starting to get interesting.
IMHO.
Title: Re: State of Sim'ing 2024 Survey
Post by: AKIron on January 20, 2025, 11:12:08 AM
Then don't open the thread. No one forces you to read it, or post in it.
Obviously some are very fearful for "their game". It's justified but mistaken to believe a discussion about the state of flight sims is going to send their remaining base packing.
Title: Re: State of Sim'ing 2024 Survey
Post by: AKIron on January 20, 2025, 11:14:40 AM
Minimum to minimum is: Double CPU requirement, double RAM requirement, double GPU requirement. Recommended becomes the minimum, though I feel it is disingenuous to advertise there's 'no significant difference' when a player goes from playing a game on normal settings fine to struggling to play on low settings.
With that said, I had little empathy for folks who couldn't continue to play AH on their Compaqs.
I couldn't find the min req for AHII. Care to share? Only fair since I shared the current minimum requirements.
Title: Re: State of Sim'ing 2024 Survey
Post by: Spikes on January 20, 2025, 11:20:40 AM
There are always some players who can't ore aren't willing to upgrade, but stagnation is far more hurting to a live game. And the new specs were still very low for that time. I had was running AHIII without problems on a potato that struggled a lot with modern games at the time. Some players may have left, but overall not too many and numbers didn't take any significant hit.
I've got no disagreements with this. Lack of steady development and increased competition in the genre are the two main contributing factors. But these are/were very obvious, so the constant questions of "where are all the peoples?" is extremely disingenuous because the people posing the questions are just trying to bait the responses they want out of people.
AH is going to be what it is going to be. Enjoy it.
Title: Re: State of Sim'ing 2024 Survey
Post by: Spikes on January 20, 2025, 11:21:36 AM
No doubt the subscription is the #1 thing holding AH back. Its just incredibly tough to get an old player to subscribe again just to try the game again. For example, i still hop into Il2 from time to time, but its not my favorite, so if I had to pay $15 just to play it again for a month, I'm not sure I would because I'm not sure how much time I could put into, or if I even wanted to.. thats probably the conundrum so many have. We really need some server FTP custom arenas to get popular in AH. That would go a long way IMO.
I agree. I have 3 kids that I play with from time to time. They love the arcade assault tank battles in WT and we usually play one once a day most days but there are times where we might not play together for a week. I think $60 a month for 4 accounts is unreasonable when I can have accounts on WT and IL2, WW2 online, WoW etc that I can play together with them for free.
Title: Re: State of Sim'ing 2024 Survey
Post by: Eagler on January 20, 2025, 11:25:37 AM
Not to mention the sharing of everything from Netflix, prime, Disney, etc..
In that light $15 is more than some think they should pay for anything ..lol
Eagler
Title: Re: State of Sim'ing 2024 Survey
Post by: AKIron on January 20, 2025, 11:31:46 AM
It's the comparison with what is available for free. People paid $6/hr to play Air Warrior back in the late 80's early 90's. I was one of them. If there was only one multi-player flight sim today $15 would not be an issue.
I still remember my AW ID 1253/Iron
Title: Re: State of Sim'ing 2024 Survey
Post by: CptTrips on January 20, 2025, 11:34:21 AM
I've got no disagreements with this. Lack of steady development and increased competition in the genre are the two main contributing factors. But these are/were very obvious, so the constant questions of "where are all the peoples?" is extremely disingenuous because the people posing the questions are just trying to bait the responses they want out of people.
See, that's cult thinking.
The question "Where are all the people at?" is meant as a challenge to the people who want to delusional claim that graphics don't matter, that AH does everything better than everyone else, that the subscription doesn't matter it's only $0.50 a day, that essentially AH has nothing to learn from any other sim.
If all that were true, if the market agreed with that, there should be a lot more players in the arena. If their delusional wishful thinking is true, then that begs the question, OK,
"Where are all the people at?"
Apparently the market doesn't agree with a lot of peoples assessment.
Title: Re: State of Sim'ing 2024 Survey
Post by: CptTrips on January 20, 2025, 11:37:33 AM
It's the comparison with what is available for free. People paid $6/hr to play Air Warrior back in the late 80's early 90's. I was one of them. If there was only one multi-player flight sim today $15 would not be an issue.
I still remember my AW ID 1253/Iron
LOL. I remember when I had to pay hourly on GEnie. Thankfully I was single at the time and didn't have any responsibilities and could get by on ramen until payday if I had to.
Title: Re: State of Sim'ing 2024 Survey
Post by: CptTrips on January 20, 2025, 12:45:39 PM
I meant in your write up. It makes sense though if you aren't playing it that you wouldn't make comments about it :)
Oh sorry, you meant in the review I was working on comparing 1946 to AH?
That was a deal I was doing with one of the influencers over there. I was taking a close look at 1946 and comparing to AH and he was going to do the trial and take a close look comparing AH to 1946 in return.
So really that was just a limited 1946-AH deal by design.
Title: Re: State of Sim'ing 2024 Survey
Post by: Banshee7 on January 20, 2025, 03:55:40 PM
In that light $15 is more than some think they should pay for anything ..lol
I got to thinking the other night about this. If you play all 12 months you are essentially paying the same price as TWO of the latest titles of the year for a dated game (that's also assuming HT still does the "pay 6 months in advance and get one month free"). That kind of opened my eye a bit considering I bought two new titles in 2024 for less than what I paid in AH subscription. I don't think the subscription model is best for this game, but I also don't believe it has contributed that much to the decline in players.
Title: Re: State of Sim'ing 2024 Survey
Post by: CptTrips on January 20, 2025, 05:52:34 PM
I got to thinking the other night about this. If you play all 12 months you are essentially paying the same price as TWO of the latest titles of the year for a dated game (that's also assuming HT still does the "pay 6 months in advance and get one month free"). That kind of opened my eye a bit considering I bought two new titles in 2024 for less than what I paid in AH subscription. I don't think the subscription model is best for this game, but I also don't believe it has contributed that much to the decline in players.
Do you think it contributes to the difficulty of attracting new players?
Title: Re: State of Sim'ing 2024 Survey
Post by: Lazerr on January 20, 2025, 08:14:53 PM
Do you think it contributes to the difficulty of attracting new players?
I think when they log in it does. What this game can offer, and what is does offer on a normal basis, especially for new folks... explains our lack of players.
Title: Re: State of Sim'ing 2024 Survey
Post by: Banshee7 on January 20, 2025, 10:00:21 PM
Do you think it contributes to the difficulty of attracting new players?
Yeah, I think it does. $180 annually, steep learning curve, and graphics all play a role. Aces High will always be my favorite game--I've never played IL2 and only fiddled around in DCS. Therefore, no one can accuse me of trying to steal players or deter new ones.
Title: Re: State of Sim'ing 2024 Survey
Post by: CptTrips on January 20, 2025, 10:11:57 PM
Yeah, I think it does. $180 annually, steep learning curve, and graphics all play a role. Aces High will always be my favorite game--I've never played IL2 and only fiddled around in DCS. Therefore, no one can accuse me of trying to steal players or deter new ones.
You know, just the other day I got an email from the WWIIOL guys. It had to be more than 10 years ago I did a demo. I guess they still had the email. Sent me some kind of offer to come back. I'm not interested because I never liked it, but if it had been an old game I had loved and forgotten about, maybe it would jog my interest to check it out again.
Surely HTC has email of old former players. That isn't SPAM because you already had a past relationship. You aren't just SPAM'ing rando's. I think it's fair cricket. Like send them a veterans code for returning players gets you 3 months free. Rekindle the fire. Doesn't require code changes. A lot of those guys have recently retired and may start getting bored.
Title: Re: State of Sim'ing 2024 Survey
Post by: icepac on January 21, 2025, 08:14:32 AM
I've noticed that many newer games with graphics people brag about are full of eye candy and the resolution for distance viewing is lower than aces high.
Title: Re: State of Sim'ing 2024 Survey
Post by: DmonSlyr on January 21, 2025, 08:19:59 AM
You know, just the other day I got an email from the WWIIOL guys. It had to be more than 10 years ago I did a demo. I guess they still had the email. Sent me some kind of offer to come back. I'm not interested because I never liked it, but if it had been an old game I had loved and forgotten about, maybe it would jog my interest to check it out again.
Surely HTC has email of old former players. That isn't SPAM because you already had a past relationship. You aren't just SPAM'ing rando's. I think it's fair cricket. Like send them a veterans code for returning players gets you 3 months free. Rekindle the fire. Doesn't require code changes. A lot of those guys have recently retired and may start getting bored.
I've asked time and time again for a news letter. Would do wonders, especially for the older crowd who has finally figured out how Email works... I get 8 emails a day from so many companies. I don't understand why HTC can't do 1 a month. Or even 1 a quarter of all the events and new maps. If you think its spam, just right click and add to spam file... I don't understand the issue.
Title: Re: State of Sim'ing 2024 Survey
Post by: Animl-AW on January 21, 2025, 08:24:54 AM
Not angry you’re 100% ahole, with no power just a child brain. The typical juvenile punk. I’m not dine with you candy striper butt. I can reach out and touch you at will. You’re way over confident, sexual predator. I know more about you than you want to know. Since ya like diggin into personal details. You’re goin to eat your own meds.
Care for an example?
Title: Re: State of Sim'ing 2024 Survey
Post by: AKIron on January 21, 2025, 08:39:05 AM
Off topic and disrespectful Animl. No one breaks the rules here more than you. You make a lousy AH policeman.
Title: Re: State of Sim'ing 2024 Survey
Post by: Animl-AW on January 21, 2025, 08:40:48 AM