Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: JimmyD3 on March 31, 2025, 03:44:25 PM
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Per Hitech, for a trial run, Base Ammo Bunker Hardness is being raised from 312 lbs. to 843 lbs. Ammo strat Bunkers will remain at 312 lbs. .
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What is this supposed to help with?
I don't see many people porking ammo bunkers in the MA. If anything, the radar and Fighter Hangars need to be hardened, but that's it.
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I rarely see a base with the ords up, if it is being attacked. I know as a gv-er I want the ords down and the VH down. Most of the long time players, can pork the ords, in 1 pass on a small base. That coupled with their high speed dive makes it almost impossible to stop them. I'll grant you the Medium and Large bases are more difficult to get. He may decide it's not needed, we'll have to wait and see.
fwiw, I agree with you on the Radar, I can go either way on the Hangers. :salute
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I rarely see a base with the ords up, if it is being attacked. I know as a gv-er I want the ords down and the VH down. Most of the long time players, can pork the ords, in 1 pass on a small base. That coupled with their high speed dive makes it almost impossible to stop them. I'll grant you the Medium and Large bases are more difficult to get. He may decide it's not needed, we'll have to wait and see.
I find this to be true.
If I'm going to dump ammo, you can bet I'll be coming in at 530 IAS if I can. Why would I not?
Remember, it's a "trial run".
The little tweak in radar alt changed the game play a little.
There is effort to improved game play. It may not workout as designed, nothing ventured, nothing gained.
There is movement. :)
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The only thing this does is make it harder for a plane to gun down the ammo bunker
How about the auto-guns?
:rofl :salute
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The only thing this does is make it harder for a plane to gun down the ammo bunker
How about the auto-guns?
:rofl :salute
I stand corrected...
You can go ahead and plan on using 1k of ords in bombers now. Single 500lb drops require a perfect 3 bomb splash drop with the bunker smack in the middle. A single perfect drop from 29s does not do it as the bomb splash does not overlap.
Maaaaaan what is gldnbb gonna do now
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Trial run (i.e. experiment) to find our what exactly.
At first glance it appears imo to advantage those that love bombing GVs. If it does maybe that’s actually a good thing as they make tasty targets. 🤔
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Would rather have seen a radar change trial run..
Eagler
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Would rather have seen a radar change trial run..
Eagler
Ditto, came here to say that. Not sure why the radar (the first target everyone hits) hasn't been increased. That's been one of my oldest gripes going back to when the radar changed a while ago. My opinion was that it needed to be like 3000 pounds to take it down, that way dot radar near the field would stay up longer.
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Ditto, came here to say that. Not sure why the radar (the first target everyone hits) hasn't been increased. That's been one of my oldest gripes going back to when the radar changed a while ago. My opinion was that it needed to be like 3000 pounds to take it down, that way dot radar near the field would stay up longer.
Not talking about destroying radar but changing the dar settings used today in ma..impose a delay or make the directional plane icons just dots again...a change to improve the game play for all..I mean let's make the trial run worth the effort
Eagler
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Not talking about destroying radar but changing the dar settings used today in ma..impose a delay or make the directional plane icons just dots again...a change to improve the game play for all..I mean let's make the trial run worth the effort
Eagler
I think a combination of hardening the dar, and the suggested delay and icon change would be the way to go.
It's always been way too easy to take out these strategic targets. You can plink them with 2 or 3 rockets before ack even gets a shot off.
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Would rather have seen a radar change trial run..
Eagler
Changing Dar ewacs functions would require code changes, this is a simple Arena Tables setting. Personally I don't see it as an advantage to any special group, other than the "defenders".
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Not talking about destroying radar but changing the dar settings used today in ma..impose a delay or make the directional plane icons just dots again...a change to improve the game play for all..I mean let's make the trial run worth the effort
Eagler
Yes, but before hitech made the radar changes, I had felt all he really needed to do was increase the damage Instead to make it harder to take down so defenders could see how many were attacking. Far easier than all the coding changes. I always felt like Hitech took the hard route to some things. All was needed was to make it so a little more effort took down the dot radar within range. Todays radar unfortunately makes it very tough to be sneaky and to escape a hoard if they have you in dot range outside of radar circles. I never understood why you'd show up on the radar if you are outside of the radar circle.
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Not sure hardening radar is realistic. They are not hardened structures, Its a tower.
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Well the Yak3's is hardened more than the bunkers :old:
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I guess hardening the P-38 is out of the question... :D
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Maybe changing the Hardness of the radar is not the way to go, maybe the down time would be a better way to approach it. Instead of 30 minutes down time, make it 15 or 20, or maybe do both reduce the down time and harden it a little more.
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Wish he could solve the rubber bullets issue. I left the community after lighting up a solo B24 like a kid's sparkler using 8 50's in a P47. Emptied the clip = went to stats to see an 11.2% hit percentage - the 24 flew away seemingly undamaged.
Only guns that ever worked for me were ship guns.
Have fun.
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I have been asking for film to take to Hitech about the rubber bullets and cannon rounds through tanks. I hope to go visit him this month, would love to take a flash drive with 10 or 15 examples to show him. I have a few gv issues on film I will take. Need fighter issues like Busher talked about. If you have something, send me a PM and I'll give you my email address. :rock
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Porking bases is my jam! At least we are trying something!
Can make trains and trucks have an affect again?
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Wish he could solve the rubber bullets issue. I left the community after lighting up a solo B24 like a kid's sparkler using 8 50's in a P47. Emptied the clip = went to stats to see an 11.2% hit percentage - the 24 flew away seemingly undamaged.
Only guns that ever worked for me were ship guns.
Have fun.
That is an unfortunate exception. I can state fora fact and the record there aint nothing wrong with how the bombers are coded in regards to damage. Your just not a very good shot :cheers:
Id like to see a clip of you dumping an entire clip into a single set of 24s :headscratch: :old:
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How frikinAwsome that ANYTHING like this is still going on. Thanks for 20+years of game improvement.
akELFY
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That is an unfortunate exception. I can state fora fact and the record there aint nothing wrong with how the bombers are coded in regards to damage. Your just not a very good shot :cheers:
Id like to see a clip of you dumping an entire clip into a single set of 24s :headscratch: :old:
I think there is a latency issue or something regarding bullets. Rubbers are something that are slowly driving me crazy. I freaking drill planes and do little damage and just cannot believe how they are still flying. I'm not sure if it's your nose not seeing the bullets hit the plane due to leading or what. I fly the G14 quite a bit with 3 20mms. If I get a crossing shot from 200 away and light up their plane. That should be it but I jaw drop when they just fly away with like an oil leak or something and still out run me.. I drilled a f4u1a the other day with 6 20mms as he pulled up. But I'm not sure my front end saw all of the bullets actually hit, so I'm not sure if they actually registered. I couldn't believe the guy was still flying and still able to perform ACM after that. I've noticed rubbers especially bad in the P40s. It's crazy how I can splash what seems like 50 bullets in a plane and do no damage at all. I certainly feel there is something weird going on and definitely doesn't happen all the time either. Driving me mad though. :old:
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I logged in last night for awhile. Took 3 login attemps to be able to hover my cursor over a base or strat to get info on it. I assume connection related. All the complaints about folks not able to get vox working or lose vox... connection related.
Taking and hour or more for people to download the stdshape file.. connection related.
People shooting thru ships, tanks, and planes... hmm
Would I be shocked if this is also causing rubber bullets for some people? Not one bit.
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I do GVs, heavy fighter and bombers. I am for a trial on the ammo bunkers. Should be interesting. I just ask Hitech to be open for feedback from planes and GV players.
Some thoughts on the trial.
Keep in mind though the health of the ammo strat plays a bigger role than hardness.
Six- eight rocket fighters will be impacted but ten rocket fighters will not.
GV'ers will suffer a lot more than planes from the change. We have a strong GV population that might find this a bad move.
Offensive strikes will benefit.
Countries with the least number of players will be hurt by this.
The single country being attacked by the other two countries will be hurt by this.
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I’ve never had issues with “rubber bullets” in my jug… don’t know how you guys are having them
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I'm not sure which problem this is trying to solve.
But it will hurt the light & medium bombers. They always struggled a bit to find their role in AH, now it will become somewhat more difficult to find a reason to up them. For example, I very much liked to use the G4M for porking bases. 4x250kg was just enough for ammo two small or one medium field (if you survived long enough, that is). While a drop of one 250kg bomb is nominally still sufficient (combined DR of ~1800), my offline tests resulted in a lot of duds despite having a good impact point.
IMHO, if anything, the factory buildings are the one who could have used a boost. A fast suicide jabo can quickly do damage comparable to a heavy bomber formation, and is almost unstoppable.
But then, the whole strat setup is in a kinda weird place these days and could use a total rebalancing.
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I'm not sure which problem this is trying to solve.
But it will hurt the light & medium bombers. They always struggled a bit to find their role in AH, now it will become somewhat more difficult to find a reason to up them. For example, I very much liked to use the G4M for porking bases. 4x250kg was just enough for ammo two small or one medium field (if you survived long enough, that is). While a drop of one 250kg bomb is nominally still sufficient (combined DR of ~1800), my offline tests resulted in a lot of duds despite having a good impact point.
IMHO, if anything, the factory buildings are the one who could have used a boost. A fast suicide jabo can quickly do damage comparable to a heavy bomber formation, and is almost unstoppable.
But then, the whole strat setup is in a kinda weird place these days and could use a total rebalancing.
+1 on this. Ord porking is not what it was years ago. Now you cant event beg someone to kill ammo bunkers. I think they are fine the way they are and strategically, you target them because most of the time, you are actually slowing down a horde. This idea will discourage more of it leaving the hordes to continue on.
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I'm not sure which problem this is trying to solve.
But it will hurt the light & medium bombers. They always struggled a bit to find their role in AH, now it will become somewhat more difficult to find a reason to up them. For example, I very much liked to use the G4M for porking bases. 4x250kg was just enough for ammo two small or one medium field (if you survived long enough, that is). While a drop of one 250kg bomb is nominally still sufficient (combined DR of ~1800), my offline tests resulted in a lot of duds despite having a good impact point.
IMHO, if anything, the factory buildings are the one who could have used a boost. A fast suicide jabo can quickly do damage comparable to a heavy bomber formation, and is almost unstoppable.
But then, the whole strat setup is in a kinda weird place these days and could use a total rebalancing.
I concur. I routinely used Ki67's before to pork ords & other strat. I still do that with B26's. I have also noticed that despite having a dead-on accurate calibration and drop with what should work according to the numbers, targets still stand.
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The second you see this, check net status and screen shoot it.
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This is a great change. It's a bit ridiculous an airplane can machine gun down reinforced concrete bunkers so easily.
One pass at a small airfield and ords are down.
You can still pork ords, it just takes a more reasonable effort.
I like the change.
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Don't some objects in game only respond to HE damage?
Maybe work that into the ords and radar?
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Don't some objects in game only respond to HE damage?
Maybe work that into the ords and radar?
I don't believe that to be true
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Don't some objects in game only respond to HE damage?
Maybe work that into the ords and radar?
An M4 HE takes two hits to kill an ammo bunker where AP takes four.
As Talon posted the canon fighter guys will not be happy, but I agree a hardened ammo bunker you would think should be bullet proof.
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Per Hitech, for a trial run, Base Ammo Bunker Hardness is being raised from 312 lbs. to 843 lbs. Ammo strat Bunkers will remain at 312 lbs. .
My question is how many P38 rockets to kill amb- 3 doesn't do the trick for me anymore.
Killing vh and amb has been my bread-and-butter attack mode and can be done in 2 passes
Looks like only one objective can be done vs 3 0r 4 passes total to get last amb :airplane:
I have been in top 20 in attack mode for damage consistently this will have a big effect on play
2nd guestion can P51 using 3 rockets kill ammo bunker :x :x
will value of target be increased
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This is a great change. It's a bit ridiculous an airplane can machine gun down reinforced concrete bunkers so easily.
One pass at a small airfield and ords are down.
You can still pork ords, it just takes a more reasonable effort.
I like the change.
I've always thought this as well. They'd certainly be more reinforced than any hangar.
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My question is how many P38 rockets to kill amb- 3 doesn't do the trick for me anymore.
Killing vh and amb has been my bread-and-butter attack mode and can be done in 2 passes
Looks like only one objective can be done vs 3 0r 4 passes total to get last amb :airplane:
I have been in top 20 in attack mode for damage consistently this will have a big effect on play
2nd guestion can P51 using 3 rockets kill ammo bunker :x :x
will value of target be increased
Nominally, you would now need:
2701 rounds .303 Browning or
722 rounds .50cal or
210 rounds 20mm Hispano or
73 rounds 30mm Mk-108 or
5 rounds 75mm (M4)
4 rounds 85/88mm
5 RP-3 60lb
6 HVAR 5"
7 RS-132
10 PB-1
7 4.5" M8
5x100
3x250lb
2x500lb
1x1000lb
(practically, dropping the bare minimum of 500lb bombs in a formation is very unreliable and basically doesn't work for the smaller bombs at all due to the spread of the drop)
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Thanks for the list Lusche!
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I like this. I don't post much. I think we should get to change loadouts or repair (cost of perks) when rearming.
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(practically, dropping the bare minimum of 500lb bombs in a formation is very unreliable and basically doesn't work for the smaller bombs at all due to the spread of the drop)
Concur.
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This is a terrible idea. Please don't fix something that's not broke. Makes it harder to slow down horde.
:old:
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How would Hitech measure the success or failure of the trial?
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I concur. I routinely used Ki67's before to pork ords & other strat. I still do that with B26's. I have also noticed that despite having a dead-on accurate calibration and drop with what should work according to the numbers, targets still stand.
I'm sure it's an unfortunate byproduct of the change, but keep in mind usage of those bombers is minimal anyway. Betty, Peggy, and other lesser bombers don't get used nearly as much as Tu-2, B-26, and the heavies.
We have always faced a similar problem in FSO when we include Jabo planes in mid-war events, where half the time the jabos can carry more ord than that of a B-25 or Boston. And the Japanese planeset (as a product of IRL) lacks in any sort of ord carrying aircraft to match Allied stuff in the Pacific, so we're forced to have Ki-67 vs. B-24 which is grossly imbalanced in payload and the Ki's only saving grace is that it has speed.
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As to the connection between HT and my home, I am on the latest fiber optic internet in my area... my ping rate seems to have always been 66.
I am going to try a clean install of the game one more time and if my issues with rubber bullets remains... well, little point.
One question though, I still run W7 pro on my gaming machine but the processor (I7 quad), vid card and ram are all "state of the art". I stayed with "7" because it has so little crap running in the background compared to 10 and 11. But I would appreciate any knowledge as to W7's negative impact - if any.
Thanks
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As to the connection between HT and my home, I am on the latest fiber optic internet in my area... my ping rate seems to have always been 66.
I am going to try a clean install of the game one more time and if my issues with rubber bullets remains... well, little point.
One question though, I still run W7 pro on my gaming machine but the processor (I7 quad), vid card and ram are all "state of the art". I stayed with "7" because it has so little crap running in the background compared to 10 and 11. But I would appreciate any knowledge as to W7's negative impact - if any.
Thanks
I might suggest memory is handled better in win10 and 11. IMO, 11 is easier to tweak. Your bottleneck could be win7. Someone may prove me wrong.
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As to the connection between HT and my home, I am on the latest fiber optic internet in my area... my ping rate seems to have always been 66.
I am going to try a clean install of the game one more time and if my issues with rubber bullets remains... well, little point.
One question though, I still run W7 pro on my gaming machine but the processor (I7 quad), vid card and ram are all "state of the art". I stayed with "7" because it has so little crap running in the background compared to 10 and 11. But I would appreciate any knowledge as to W7's negative impact - if any.
Thanks
WHats your ingame name? Im curious on what your hit% is.
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Haven't played in a long time. Was thinking of returning but this issue P'd me off once. Don't need another.
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A 5” HVAR rocket in AH does about 190lbs of damage so you will now need four rockets to take out an ord bunker.
When I do VH’s in a P38 I always do 7 rockets with the two 1K bombs. Six rockets will still do it but you have to be dead on.
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Haven't played in a long time. Was thinking of returning but this issue P'd me off once. Don't need another.
OK, if you flew under the name "Busher" you havent flown in the MA since June of 2013. In the 12 years you have been away how much do you think things have changed? Not only in the game, but along the internet as well?
Your complaining about "rubber bullets" from 12 years ago. Everyone has a bad night now and again, I blame most of mine on how much Gin I had that night. Search my name with "aim" and you will find I have been on a crusade for over 20 years of trying to learn to aim. Its not something worth quiting over. Come on back, grab yourself a beer or two and have some fun!
As for rubber bullets, there are a hundred reasons why you you would get them. That is why it cant be fixed, there is no spot in the coad where Hitech can change a line or two and its all gone. I think he has done a great job of keeping his coad clean and to the point and made the "hits" as reliable as possible . Things like solar flares, power outages that cause reroutes, outdated equipment at ISP servers and such are all out of HTCs control. I know some people who when they log in and feel they have rubber bullets will relog, other will add a reboot just to be safe and they feel it help clear out the rubber bullet effect.
Luckily, like I said, I such and my aim has always been suspect. Do I get rubber bullets? Who knows, but Im still having fun and that is more important than how many hits I get.
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Some of these complaints are usually exaggerated in a form of hysteria of the sky is falling..,by the same players. And of course the blame is always directed at HT. Rinse and repeat.
What ya read here must be taken with a grain of salt. If its said to be many its probably just a few.
As Fugi seemed to state, blame everything but ya just had a bad night. Just because ya hit a plane doesn’t mean it was a vital part of it. Sometimes sprites/fx just don’t fire.
If ya left during AH2 like I did, a lot changed. I noticed right away on my return.
It also has a lot less bugs than other sims. I read one forum that has almost 600k and counting bug reports.
Best way, fly and find out for yourself.
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I’ve never felt like the amount of hits I put into a plane isn’t reflected properly in the damage displayed. I think a lot of the guys that have issues are cannon players, who become so accustom to killing guys in 4-5 shots that they loose their mind when it takes 6-7 shots. There’s no issue with the damage model, sometimes you just don’t get hits in the right spots and that’s ok
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A 5” HVAR rocket in AH does about 190lbs of damage so you will now need four rockets to take out an ord bunker.
When I do VH’s in a P38 I always do 7 rockets with the two 1K bombs. Six rockets will still do it but you have to be dead on.
Interesting on the 38. I always use 6 with the bombs. As you posted, the 6 works almost every time. Never thought about going to 7 but will give it a go. I go all ten if the area is hot just to be sure.
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Interesting on the 38. I always use 6 with the bombs. As you posted, the 6 works almost every time. Never thought about going to 7 but will give it a go. I go all ten if the area is hot just to be sure.
I should say it’s actually now 5 rockets for the ord bunkers.
I use the 7 rockets for a VH in the 38 just to make sure I don’t have to come back around. I will stay with six and the bombs if I’m trying to pork the whole place but that’s now not possible.
In a P47 I usually do 4 rockets, two 1k and one 500lb bomb. Or I will do the 6/2 if I am trying to kill other stuff and I save the 500lb for the radar or a gv and now only to soften an ord bunker. I also have much better aim with the Rockets in the 47 than I do with the 38.
I had a pretty good time Saturday night trying to take the ord down at a few places in heavy traffic and it was not anywhere near as easy as it used to be and it was actually much more fun.
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It seems many people not in the forums do not know about the change. Saw at least three people on Rook country wondering why their old method for ords didn’t work.
We need a website or in game pop-up to let everyone know.
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It seems many people not in the forums do not know about the change. Saw at least three people on Rook country wondering why their old method for ords didn’t work.
We need a website or in game pop-up to let everyone know.
I think there is a page that flips open for updates and announcements on the clipboard, may be a HT thing.
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After several days, there is no doubt this has hurt GV play. I have not seen any other significant improvement by the change. The loss here is greater than the gain.
Again, the biggest damage to ammo bunkers comes from start attacks. Some maps worse than others.
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After several days, there is no doubt this has hurt GV play. I have not seen any other significant improvement by the change. The loss here is greater than the gain.
Again, the biggest damage to ammo bunkers comes from start attacks. Some maps worse than others.
True.
But then how can it be justified a concrete building being taken out inferior firepower when it comes to realism, not too gamey?
I only fly 1-3 hrs per day so I don't see a lot that some do.
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True.
But then how can it be justified a concrete building being taken out inferior firepower when it comes to realism, not too gamey?
I only fly 1-3 hrs per day so I don't see a lot that some do.
You how sloppy some players are. Quite often they leave the door open to the ammo bunker.
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You how sloppy some players are. Quite often they leave the door open to the ammo bunker.
:rofl Good point Randy! :rofl
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Well the Yak3's is hardened more than the bunkers :old:
I like your sig. Seems familiar. :aok
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How long is this trial and when will it go back to it's original setting?
I have seen through this setting that more often Ammo bunkers are still up in recent times with much less people targeting them.
I do feel that the impact of that is that it will be getting a bit more difficult to stop or even slow down hordes
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I don't have any hard data, but my observations are it has slowed down the horde, if anything. Personally, I think the bunkers were to soft anyway. At least now it takes 850# of ordinance to take them out. Bombers will still bomb, Jabo's will still dive bomb, it just takes a little more effort now. :cheers:
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I guess no more hitting ords with a c202.
On the bright side, the c202 is pretty good at high altitude if you can manage fuel burn.
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I don't have any hard data, but my observations are it has slowed down the horde, if anything. Personally, I think the bunkers were to soft anyway. At least now it takes 850# of ordinance to take them out. Bombers will still bomb, Jabo's will still dive bomb, it just takes a little more effort now. :cheers:
Yeeeup!
AW damage model (i know repeat) the masses wanted more reality, I gave them more reality and Relaxed Realism didn’t like it because it was just a lil harder.
This setting is more realistic and some don’t like it. <shrug>
Yu’ll never ever make everyone happy, ever.
<S>
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I don't have any hard data, but my observations are it has slowed down the horde, if anything. Personally, I think the bunkers were to soft anyway. At least now it takes 850# of ordinance to take them out. Bombers will still bomb, Jabo's will still dive bomb, it just takes a little more effort now. :cheers:
How about a compromise? When I attack ammo bunkers, I use rockets. Three rockets for each ammo bunker before the hardening was just about a sure kill.. How about setting it to 4 rocket hardness that have to be well placed so there is no room for error. Five rockets would give you a bit of wiggle room..
Four rockets would bring back in the F4u1D as an example carrying 8 rockets for ammo bunker attacks, but a five-rocket attach using the P38 or P47 would be a more reliable rocket attack platform. Tank wise that would take 3 HE instead of four HE now.
A compromise is even more important when a map requires long air or tank routes to the next air base.
Just a thought.
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A single fully loaded P47 can still stake out the VH, both bunkers, and the radar on a small base if you use guns. Dealers choice on how you divvy it up.
Or it can take out two VH’s with one full load out and a few gun strafes.
A P38 can almost do it still it’s just missing the 500lb. You might get lucky with the 20mm cannon but probably not much compared to eight 50 cals.
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It's a terrible idea benefits the horde.
Want more realism hao about stopping buffs de-acking v-base from 25k
:banana: :old: :banana:
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A single fully loaded P47 can still stake out the VH, both bunkers, and the radar on a small base if you use guns. Dealers choice on how you divvy it up.
Or it can take out two VH’s with one full load out and a few gun strafes.
A P38 can almost do it still it’s just missing the 500lb. You might get lucky with the 20mm cannon but probably not much compared to eight 50 cals.
Really depends on how well the base is being defended.
What we are talking about here is trying to limit gunned downed ammo bunkers. The typical 190 ammo bunker attack. I see Hitech thoughts on this and agree. I am just suggesting backing off just a bit on the hardness.
I do agrre ammo bunkers should be harder than radaar towers.