Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Animl-AW on October 18, 2025, 11:28:15 AM
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There are the usual low count days. But on there has been primetime numbers near 120.
Fridays seems to be a peak day.
Primetime usually starts gearing down at 9:30pm CT.
Last night at 11pm CT there was still 73-78 in the MA, 58 in FSO.
The Midwest is starting to feel Fall set in after a California type summer this year. Every day was stunning weather. But that’s ending for the most part. Most outdoor events are iver
There is still a low but steady stream of new and return players. I’ve helped 4 myself the last two weeks. I inly fly 1-3 hrs 5 days a week.
Just sayin (tm Pasha) we should see winter numbers rise.
Tomorrow I start weather predictions, for a small fee
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Numbers slowly increase as winter approached every year, just not as high as the previous winter. :old:
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Numbers slowly increase as winter approached every year, just not as high as the previous winter. :old:
Been predictable to a point for 35+ years.
But thanks for the negative twist
:noid
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I have noticed a slight increase also, but most of the increases seem to be either on the Bishop side or Rook side. Knights seem to be having a problem getting new players, or at least increasing their numbers. :headscratch:
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Plenty for a two sided war - gray vs blue - not so much for 3 as shown just about nightly...
But live with it as it isn't going to change.. :old:
Eagler
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Plenty for a two sided war - gray vs blue - not so much for 3 as shown just about nightly...
But live with it as it isn't going to change.. :old:
Eagler
<Makes Note>
"Dock Eagler 3k perk points for repeat broken record skips"
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I have noticed a slight increase also, but most of the increases seem to be either on the Bishop side or Rook side. Knights seem to be having a problem getting new players, or at least increasing their numbers. :headscratch:
True enough
WELL, I think one's imagination could stretch a bit. :bhead
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8p CT, Prime Time
84 players
The horde pansies chased nits out and nits went down to 8 flying at prime time (eight) against 77. That's where your numbers are going. Nits are burned out on this stuff. Can't blame a single one of them. I left and it dropped to 7 flying (18 players)
Now I see why Bish were hording to get bases back some pushed them back but didn't finish the job to change the map,..... but rooks are running out of excuses....they just prefer to be dweebs. Rooks had 40 players (forty) (maybe 32-35 flying) which put the war they were at to 35-2....think about that.....35 vs 2, hilarious!! <eye roll>. I guess it finally got boring at 35-0. The entire country,.. can't imagine why nits logged
So there you have the numbers problem,.. complete utter dweebery.
Had nits not logged and had the same 35 numbers you would have had over 110
the problem is NOT the game,.. the problem is the players being idiots. <shrug>
can't imagine why nits have a numbers problem
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Are they returning players or peekers?
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8p CT, Prime Time
84 players
The horde pansies chased nits out and nits went down to 8 flying at prime time (eight) against 77. That's where your numbers are going. Nits are burned out on this stuff. Can't blame a single one of them. I left and it dropped to 7 flying (18 players)
Now I see why Bish were hording to get bases back some pushed them back but didn't finish the job to change the map,..... but rooks are running out of excuses....they just prefer to be dweebs. Rooks had 40 players (forty) (maybe 32-35 flying) which put the war they were at to 35-2....think about that.....35 vs 2, hilarious!! <eye roll>. I guess it finally got boring at 35-0. The entire country,.. can't imagine why nits logged
So there you have the numbers problem,.. complete utter dweebery.
Had nits not logged and had the same 35 numbers you would have had over 110
the problem is NOT the game,.. the problem is the players being idiots. <shrug>
can't imagine why nits have a numbers problem
....or is it just Knights not wanting to fight, and so log off?
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....or is it just Knights not wanting to fight, and so log off?
5-1 up to 20-1? No they don’t want to waste time with that, neither do I. We just constant ckay pigeons feeding perks.
It is what I said it is, come listen to our radio. What do I have to gain to make it up? I have something to lose if it is true.
Denial will cost the game.
I stand by my words<shrug>
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Are they returning players or peekers?
I would think dropping from 28 to 18 with 7 in the air would cover both
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I know I felt pretty overwhelmed and frustrated by it all. It wasn't a good night for the home team for sure. I logged off rather than sit in the tower with a dumb look on my face wondering what to do.
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Two sided war please...that way there will always be a fight
Eagler
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Two sided war please...that way there will always be a fight
Eagler
yup, 80 vs 20 :rolleyes:
5-1 up to 20-1? No they don’t want to waste time with that, neither do I. We just constant ckay pigeons feeding perks.
It is what I said it is, come listen to our radio. What do I have to gain to make it up? I have something to lose if it is true.
Denial will cost the game.
I stand by my words<shrug>
I understand the frustration and have experienced it many time when the Bish get ganged (as each team does get its chance). I play until it just gets to stupid to play any more, like when the only fight in town is vs the group that likes to pick and run in their ponies, now D9s and tempies. My consolation is I am part of a good sized squad that has players on almost all the time. Working with them to start our own battle helps keep the fun going. Its too bad that it happens so often to the Knights. Its a bit of a running joke, "dont hit the Knights too hard as they might just log off!".
We need more numbers. :mad:
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yup, 80 vs 20 :rolleyes:
yeah, 35:2 is much better.
:rofl
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Two sided war please...that way there will always be a fight
Eagler
2 sides would be the last nail in the coffin.
Although I have faith it would be of great intention for the game. The end result would just be all all flaying to the other side.
There are no lack in fights. The only remedy to numbers is numbers. I cant even say how many times (and I know all 3 sides go through this) there is a cry for help but nobody shows up.
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2 sides would be the last nail in the coffin.
Although I have faith it would be of great intention for the game. The end result would just be all all flaying to the other side.
As opposed to 35:2.
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2 sides would be the last nail in the coffin.
Although I have faith it would be of great intention for the game. The end result would just be all all flaying to the other side.
There are no lack in fights. The only remedy to numbers is numbers. I cant even say how many times (and I know all 3 sides go through this) there is a cry for help but nobody shows up.
Its going to be repeated in every MA convo over and over and over.
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3-Sides has NOTHING to do with side-balancing as HT himself stated. It is an attempt to create more frontage between multiple team.
2-Sides has NOTHING to do with side-balancing. It is an attempt to make sure if there is only enough critical mass for one furball, that there is only one front so ALL the players in the arena can access it.
Side-balancing, in both cases, is handled by other mechanism.
Side-balancing is a different design problem than 3-sides vs 2-sides. Don't try and tell me 3-sides is magically self-balancing or else we wouldn't have threads like these. Over and over and over.
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Nits thought AK rotating to our side would be a huge help, they went almost dormant, but next month well get pummeled again.
Joke, laugh, project ideas that never work,….. right into the abyss. This cannot be sustained.
All the talk about promotions, raising numbers, I/We bust are tulips to bring in a meager 30-40, which we did, and then the same make it the most undesirable place to be and laugh about it.
Thats why I quit going out of my way. Now I just tell them, you cannot win 30-5 give them nothing but beer cans to shoot, make it as painfully boring for them as possible its the only tool you have.
I’ve been helping new/return guys, just to watch them say, “ya F this” and they are gone
The fact this convo has been redundantly repeated with only 2-3 day result and recycle. its not going to change, they just excuse their way around it and go right back at it. Its fubar.
All good people individually, complete jackares as a group.
Now, I beat up rooks a bit, but same ratio on the bish side too. So ya, 70-7 is mind blowing stupid.
We’ll get a change for 2 days and back into the abyss we go snd repeat the convo again.the habits are rooted. MA numbers will fall due to nits fed up. Ya you won alright, ya also lit the trash can on fire, then complain its burning.
We do not have the numbers to overcome this, and the more nits who leave just makes the spiral speed up.
The game is fine, the players have lost their ever loving minds.
I’m not going to use my name to promote that, nope, not doing it
If we can’t get above critical mass as average over winter, expect cob webs next summer.
There is ZERO reason for full country single hordes.
Mock me, laugh, call me a fool. You won’t say it next summer.
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My thoughts while all this was going on was, why on earth are we fighting the Bishops at all, when the Rooks had twice as many fields than Bish. The Knights should have concentrated their forces against the Rooks to beat them back and then deal with the Bishops, in my opinion.
When the Bish have 25 bases and the Rooks have over 50, why worry about the Bishops at that point? The problem I see with the Knights is they lack communication and refuse to fight as group most of the time. And we end up scattering like cats trying to put out fires all over the map. :salute
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My thoughts while all this was going on was, why on earth are we fighting the Bishops at all, when the Rooks had twice as many fields than Bish. The Knights should have concentrated their forces against the Rooks to beat them back and then deal with the Bishops, in my opinion.
When the Bish have 25 bases and the Rooks have over 50, why worry about the Bishops at that point? The problem I see with the Knights is they lack communication and refuse to fight as group most of the time. And we end up scattering like cats trying to put out fires all over the map. :salute
Totally agree, as we ( including you and I) did try to spark other battles against rooks to split their full country horde. By then nits gave up hope and logged. We did try though
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2 sides would be the last nail in the coffin.
Although I have faith it would be of great intention for the game. The end result would just be all all flaying to the other side.
There are no lack in fights. The only remedy to numbers is numbers. I cant even say how many times (and I know all 3 sides go through this) there is a cry for help but nobody shows up.
Eagler just wants to fly a fighter plane for an hour or less a night and not have to travel more than 10 minutes to do so. It’s a pretty subjective viewpoint for a very small minority that speak louder than the rest. Sound at all topical?
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Eagler just wants to fly a fighter plane for an hour or less a night and not have to travel more than 10 minutes to do so. It’s a pretty subjective viewpoint for a very small minority that speak louder than the rest. Sound at all topical?
So wrong it’s funny
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....or is it just Knights not wanting to fight, and so log off?
We didn’t you and you’re big ol squad swap to fight? Maybe it’s the 70 that don’t want to fight and not the 5.
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Eagler just wants to fly a fighter plane for an hour or less a night and not have to travel more than 10 minutes to do so. It’s a pretty subjective viewpoint for a very small minority that speak louder than the rest. Sound at all topical?
Weird the ones that don’t return seems to be the fighters and the numbers are horrible. Some folks can’t see the forest for the trees. Especially ones at thirty k on two hour milk runs.
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I just don't want to be part of a green horde with zero fight, just pile on to take a basically empty field or have to fly 2 sectors and be the only green plane in a swarm of red from the other two countries...
I do the latter more frequently than I like to as that flying time does cut into my fighting time..but at least you get a fight out of it..
Eagler
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Capt Trips is 1000% correct. It not the number of sides. It the quality of play. And some times you have to conform to the situation. Use the game mechanics. Use severe eny on the fronts for large groups. Y’all say if it’s 2 countries the numbers will be bad? Seems y’all are able to make a whole country log off in prime time. Makes sense.
Folks don’t want to log on for their few hours of fun they get every couple of days or weekends to get demolished.
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I just don't want to be part of a green horde with zero fight, just pile on to take a basically empty field or have to fly 2 sectors and be the only green plane in a swarm of red from the other two countries...
Eagler
And this is what you get when you will only have a 2 sides.
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And this is what you get when you will only have a 2 sides.
As opposed to what you get with 3-sides already.
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I blame proximity radar for 95% of the utterly lame gameplay. I used to fly towards hordes and still have fun because I could carve some of them up before getting overwhelmed. Now that doesn’t happen. The SECOND I show up alone in icon range of an enemy I have every single fighter within two sectors flying straight for me like sharks who smell blood in the water. I can’t see them on the map but they can see me. Pickers use proximity radar to avoid any kind of jeopardy for themselves as well as single out easy targets. The result is particularly timid game play where a horde of fighters who have zero interest in any kind of base capture use the radar to pad their score. On the rare occasions I actually show up with any kind of altitude (20k+), entire groups will turn for home and wait for me to engage anyone to turn back only once I’m occupied. And they know immediately if I turned away before they can see my dot or icon on the horizon. Another effect is me having to fly a whole sector towards a horde that is basically stationary because they’re all waiting for someone else to set them up for easy picks. Now people like me who had fun smashing their head against the wall of a large group are hopelessly overwhelmed almost every time we try. The result is players abandoning fights that might otherwise have stuck around. They either log or go somewhere else which exacerbates the three sided war with two teams almost perpetually ganging the other. So, not only does the ganged side have to deal with numbers, they’re being picked relentlessly by timid players in late war and perked rides who have nearly zero accountability. Then there’s the BS that GVs give my location and direction of flight if I just happen to fly over them. So even if I want to up from a base that’s in trouble and want to get to 500ft, some guy asleep in an M3 points me out on the entire enemy’s map and I can’t even see his icon because he’s parked in a rose bush. The proximity radar setting is absolutely ruining the ability to sustain any kind of defense because it overwhelmingly favors the side with numbers.
Turn off magic proximity radar and make it viable to have any hope for outnumbered defenders to have a chance to even slow large groups until help can arrive. Or at least make it semi-fun for horde fighters like me to get a kill or two before being hopelessly steamrolled.
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Turn off magic proximity radar and make it viable to have any hope for outnumbered defenders to have a chance to even slow large groups until help can arrive. Or at least make it semi-fun for horde fighters like me to get a kill or two before being hopelessly steamrolled.
Or perhaps allow ProxDar for the low side but remove it from the high side as leverage to balance.
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Or perhaps allow ProxDar for the low side but remove it from the high side as leverage to balance.
Not if you’re on the ganged side who has 21 logged on and the other two have 20 each. You’re still fighting 2:1 without magic radar.
Just revert to darbar and radar rings like it used to be. Maybe update the darbar so it’s nearly instant so you can still find a fight.
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And this is what you get when you will only have a 2 sides.
Not sure what to do if the losers would pile up on one side just to win the map..
If the game can't be fun with only two sides with today's numbers I don't see how anyone thinks it can work with 3 sides...
I make it work for my nightly hour as it just takes one good fight - win or lose - to make my night..
I guess I am the oddball :joystick:
Eagler
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Not sure what to do if the losers would pile up on one side just to win the map..
If the game can't be fun with only two sides with today's numbers I don't see how anyone thinks it can work with 3 sides...
I make it work for my nightly hour as it just takes one good fight - win or lose - to make my night..
I guess I am the oddball :joystick:
Eagler
You are not the oddball. All I want is a few good fights and they’re harder to come by. And I will preach that it’s the proximity radar that is mostly to blame until the game fizzles out.
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I blame proximity radar for 95% of the utterly lame gameplay. I used to fly towards hordes and still have fun because I could carve some of them up before getting overwhelmed. Now that doesn’t happen. The SECOND I show up alone in icon range of an enemy I have every single fighter within two sectors flying straight for me like sharks who smell blood in the water. I can’t see them on the map but they can see me. Pickers use proximity radar to avoid any kind of jeopardy for themselves as well as single out easy targets. The result is particularly timid game play where a horde of fighters who have zero interest in any kind of base capture use the radar to pad their score. On the rare occasions I actually show up with any kind of altitude (20k+), entire groups will turn for home and wait for me to engage anyone to turn back only once I’m occupied. And they know immediately if I turned away before they can see my dot or icon on the horizon. Another effect is me having to fly a whole sector towards a horde that is basically stationary because they’re all waiting for someone else to set them up for easy picks. Now people like me who had fun smashing their head against the wall of a large group are hopelessly overwhelmed almost every time we try. The result is players abandoning fights that might otherwise have stuck around. They either log or go somewhere else which exacerbates the three sided war with two teams almost perpetually ganging the other. So, not only does the ganged side have to deal with numbers, they’re being picked relentlessly by timid players in late war and perked rides who have nearly zero accountability. Then there’s the BS that GVs give my location and direction of flight if I just happen to fly over them. So even if I want to up from a base that’s in trouble and want to get to 500ft, some guy asleep in an M3 points me out on the entire enemy’s map and I can’t even see his icon because he’s parked in a rose bush. The proximity radar setting is absolutely ruining the ability to sustain any kind of defense because it overwhelmingly favors the side with numbers.
Turn off magic proximity radar and make it viable to have any hope for outnumbered defenders to have a chance to even slow large groups until help can arrive. Or at least make it semi-fun for horde fighters like me to get a kill or two before being hopelessly steamrolled.
I second a lot of this. I also think the kill count messages ruin it too. They get to all know its me after I shoot their buddy so they can set up and know how to engange meanwhile I dont have the same advantage of knowing who im fighting and I just hate that it gives away my position.
A good point made there with the other team not even flying out anymore. They want you to fly 10 minutes to their field and get 12k so they can be there at 12k too and then their whole team gangs you once the high 190D and yak3 engage. So you've just spend like 15 minutes only to end up with a conga line behind you because they cant fly off and go find other guys to shoot. Its crazy watching 6 guys on 1 lonely friendly next to the enemy field because they refuse to fly out without 4 other guys to hold their hand. Couple this with so many vets in the easiest planes.. I just havent really been interested in the MA lately, which is fine, gives me an excuse to play some new BF6.
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As opposed to what you get with 3-sides already.
3rd option at least gives me choice and what I usually do if knights are getting pummbled by the other 2 sides is switch to start a front with other 2 that are not attacking each other. In the very least, you get a manageable situation of maybe 1 or 2 upping to defend instead of trying to fight off a bunch of lemmings.
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Here what I see as a problem in AH.
Unlike other games its not really up to the remaining players to save a game. We’re asking those who need to be policed to police the game and save it. Absurd. That is not the best way to rely on competitive nature humans. We’ve watched this problem to proceed via denial for a long time now. That denial has just come home to roost.
We been through this in repeat cycle of deflection to wack-a-mole settings dispute to solve a human nature problem. Again, its up to the players to save the game. That is not going well.
I am not a believer in hasty settings just to find a workaround so they can keep the SOP.
As I see it, either the players develop the discipline to prevent the down fall, or they don’t. So far, they don’t.
Changing for 2-3 days will not cut it.
Stop blaming HT, stop blaming the game and settings, the problem is a majority is off the rails. And HT is expected to fix your bad habits? No. Its up to you to make it or break it. Stick in denial and kiss it good bye. Wake the F up. :)
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Every player that gets in the Main Arena, is guilty of contributing to this issue, NO ONE is innocent.
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Should have the option to remove your name from the kill messages from the buffer..some live for that and would not like it if they didn't see their name in lights..
Eagler
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Every player that gets in the Main Arena, is guilty of contributing to this issue, NO ONE is innocent.
While I agree the nits just don’t have the force, even if they have the mentality
This is equalized on that statement. Equalizing is oart of denial, we all see its not equal.
Thats a trap door comment escape hatch of deflection because your squad absolutely plays a role.
Stay in denial and kiss it good bye. I stand by this
No offense intended. Stop the denial, its not helping, it makes it worse. Just stop, please
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While I agree the nits just don’t have the force, even if they have the mentality
This is equalized on that statement. Equalizing is oart of denial, we all see its not equal.
Thats a trap door comment escape hatch of deflection because your squad absolutely plays a role.
Stay in denial and kiss it good bye. I stand by this
No offense intended. Stop the denial, its not helping, it makes it worse. Just stop, please
No offense taken, but I have no answer for this issue either. BTW you are right, just last week Bishops had 50% of the Knight bases!! For what?? I had just logged on, saw the situation, got on country pitched a fit and logged off. As I said we are ALL guilty.
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Guess all knights should switch to the lowest side thus making it a 2 sided game...
Problem with that is that then both rook and bishop would ignore each other and go after the empty knight bases...
Eagler
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I second a lot of this. I also think the kill count messages ruin it too. They get to all know its me after I shoot their buddy so they can set up and know how to engange meanwhile I dont have the same advantage of knowing who im fighting and I just hate that it gives away my position.
A good point made there with the other team not even flying out anymore. They want you to fly 10 minutes to their field and get 12k so they can be there at 12k too and then their whole team gangs you once the high 190D and yak3 engage. So you've just spend like 15 minutes only to end up with a conga line behind you because they cant fly off and go find other guys to shoot. Its crazy watching 6 guys on 1 lonely friendly next to the enemy field because they refuse to fly out without 4 other guys to hold their hand. Couple this with so many vets in the easiest planes.. I just havent really been interested in the MA lately, which is fine, gives me an excuse to play some new BF6.
You’re absolutely right. Not only are we getting ganged while outnumbered but have to fly 10 minutes to their base for the pleasure. At first sight of me, they dive for ack and 2 or 3 guys a couple miles back use dar to bounce me while it’s happening. Then I’m fighting 4 or 5 while trying to avoid ack as well. After the inevitable, I relaunch and have to fly 10 minutes to their base to get raped again because few have the balls to be the first one in line to leave the safety of home/numbers/bait. Before proximity radar I would have some semblance of a chance to take one or two out and even the odds a bit. Now, if I don’t score a kill in the first turn or two, I’m likely going to get dog piled.
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And this is what you get when you will only have a 2 sides.
I don't agree with this. I think it will force more people to fight in a certain area, rather than getting pounded on two sides of the map. With adjustment to the ENY calculations, It would probably save the game the way it sits. We could fix this issue in house with players making some decisions positive for gameplay, but It's clear none of these folks want to help.
If 45 guys want to attack 30 in 30 ENY birds go for.. that's cool...
But at least we would have 45 guys fighting 30 guys... not two countries ignoring eachother and rolling undefended, maybe lighly defended bases in 40 to 3 odds.
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When Trips and I agree on anything, you might want to pay attention
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What urks me is, I promised myself I would get myself good in a 38G model and keep her under 10 or 12K doing it. :rofl I've landed maybe 4 legit kills in that thing so far. And here lately I've been playing every night. I'm ditching the TrackIr and going back old school with the views to see if I can do better luck tonight.
I doubt it'll help for most everyone in this game has been playing every night for the last 10 or 15 years. Ponys, Spitfires, yaks...you name it. They all want the moron in the 38 :bhead I may just have to fly around at 15k now. :furious
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Here what I see as a problem in AH.
Unlike other games its not really up to the remaining players to save a game. We’re asking those who need to be policed to police the game and save it. Absurd. That is not the best way to rely on competitive nature humans. We’ve watched this problem to proceed via denial for a long time now. That denial has just come home to roost.
We been through this in repeat cycle of deflection to wack-a-mole settings dispute to solve a human nature problem. Again, its up to the players to save the game. That is not going well.
I am not a believer in hasty settings just to find a workaround so they can keep the SOP.
As I see it, either the players develop the discipline to prevent the down fall, or they don’t. So far, they don’t.
Changing for 2-3 days will not cut it.
Stop blaming HT, stop blaming the game and settings, the problem is a majority is off the rails. And HT is expected to fix your bad habits? No. Its up to you to make it or break it. Stick in denial and kiss it good bye. Wake the F up. :)
Much contradiction here. If the players can’t be responsible for policing themselves who’s supposed to? The way I see it is HT caused the problem when he came up with the radar and kill settings. No one asked for it. He just did it one day to make the arena seem busier and make it easier to find targets. I completely understand why. But the negative consequences over time are being felt. Specifically by guys like me, Eagler, Violator, ZE and others who provide regular targets by plowing into the biggest red groups we can find. Altitude be damned! I’ve never had a problem being that target because I could still have fun doing so. Even when hordes could number well over 50. The number of quality fights I’ve had before getting overwhelmed has diminished drastically and it’s not because we have fewer numbers. It’s because settings have been changed that have overwhelmingly favor offense over defense. It’s also forcing pilots into, almost exclusively, fast planes with big guns to be competitive. Many players admitted quitting siting the radar as a reason. You’re right about human nature but a setting is encouraging picking and gangs which won’t go away…but they shouldn’t be rewarded either.
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I still believe that AI Missions loaded into the Terrains on repeating cycles will help build a larger player base. When players see the opposing AC on the radar. They know targets are available. Players can fly along with the AI Mission to augment the size.
A constant target rich environment will go a long way in building numbers.
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Not opposed to trying new things Kuya as long as we can agree to undo them if they make it worse.
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I don’t understand the correlation between dar and country gang bangs. Individual fights, maybe, you give good examples, I just don't see it as something that causes full country hordes.
Dar bars alone tell where a mass is. Even dot dar is enough to go by. Goid example was the scenario.
Not something I’m willing to debate. Its just not my focus.
The thing is, full country hordes can get by in two country situations like scenarios. In 3 country, WHICH WILL NOT EVER CHANGE, is one side just gets mashed. When its one country the common loser you get log offs, and that accelerates it.
Basically you have two countries bullying one most times.
Sometimes I even think there us communication between the two. Because msny things seem to be done in unison.
Point is, constant mashing on one country snd you can shoot beer cans for a fight. Thats the reality. Your number loss is on the nits side. Like it or not, the proof IS in the pudding.
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Not opposed to trying new things Kuya as long as we can agree to undo them if they make it worse.
I'm sure the programs can be removed from the terrains. That's a decision for Hitech to implement. Would he allow players to design them? Yes. He won't make the time. Players submit the design programs and Hitech adds them to the terrains.
Just my guess on how to implement this feature.
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I don’t understand the correlation between dar and country gang bangs. Individual fights, maybe, you give good examples, I just don't see it as something that causes full country hordes.
OK. Let’s say I decide to take off alone and head towards a large darbar. I get a good amount of altitude (10k) and the first thing I come across is a set of bombers at 6k outside all radar rings. I decide to engage. Before I even start my attack, every enemy fighter behind instantly knows I’m there and which direction I’m facing since I’m in icon range of the bombers. As soon as I make a turn every single fighter (let’s say 5 of them) behind those bombers knows what I’m doing and I haven’t even fired a shot. They know exactly where I am in relation to the bombers. They can see me make my turn. I get one pass and kill a drone. By the time I zoom up after my pass, all enemy fighters are already pointing EXACTLY where I am. Two have closed the distance and are able to set up as perfectly as possible to attack me. Now I’m defensive against two enemy fighters who were able to set up before I knew where they were and need to abandon my attack on the bombers. I do a good job evading those two for a couple turns but I’ve also scrubbed altitude doing it. Meanwhile the other three fighters have joined the fray (who saw me on radar but I didn’t see until in icon range) and I’m down in short order. So it’s me alone against five fighters and one set of bombers. Once I’m in icon range of the bombers all five fighters who are out of my icon range have just gained an advantage I don’t have. Let’s be clear…6 on 1 and THEY get an advantage.
Before proximity radar, I would’ve been able to make at least two passes on those bombers and those two fighters who were closer to the buffs wouldn’t have been able to bounce me using radar to set up a perfect intercept course. The other three fighters behind them may not have known what was even going on yet as they might not have even been in local radio range to have any clue. But even if they knew I was there and in a fight with their countrymen, they would have to guess my general position instead of simply knowing exactly where I was.
Meanwhile someone on my team is in the tower watching these two scenarios unfold and deciding how or even IF they will join the fight.
- The first (with proximity dar) unfolds and I’m dead in short order overwhelmed quickly by 5 fighters and only killing a single bomber. Probably not coming to my rescue.
- The second (without proximity dar) all they see is me killing two bombers and surviving probably long enough that they may select a plane and take off to help.
OR…I have a teammate or two in the air in a good position to help me. Without proximity radar they might try to come to my rescue because all they see is my position on the map. With proximity they’ll probably go after the bombers that I’ve shown them on the map because of my proximity avoiding any danger from the enemy fighters for the time being.
Here’s what proximity radar effectively does. It lets a larger force concentrate their firepower on single targets within the smaller force to more easily and quickly overwhelm them. It discourages any pilot on either side from being the tip of the spear because it instantly paints a target on them. Since defense is naturally reactive, defenders tend to trickle in. Therefore it allows larger forces to more easily swat down defenders as they show up. Discouraging defense altogether. It’s also encouraged people to easily avoid any kind of engagement where they don’t have absolute advantage which is universal for attackers and defenders alike. (You alluded to human nature)
From a defender’s standpoint (which has been my major profile throughout AH) proximity radar has absolutely eviscerated the amount of time I have to effectively engage larger groups before getting overwhelmed. It’s also been a boon for pickers and score thumpers who no longer have the fog of war to deal with since they can use radar to stack the deck even further to their advantage.
In short. It rewards (locally) being on the side with numbers. Let’s be clear, it IS concentrating fights as desired but giving a decisive advantage to whichever side (locally) has the numbers. Darbar accomplishes the concentration without the overwhelming advantage. There are a litany of other reasons I think it proximity radar sucks but the primary reason is that sucks the potential fights from the game by further encouraging people to join green darbars and avoid red darbars. People will join the green darbars rather than fly alone and try to take bases by themselves. Results are two teams beating up on one because they don’t want to be the tip of the spear in the other front.
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I see, you and others think the dar reaches too far outside reality?
I may have a hard time wording this.
Sim or game?
Relaxed reality or full reality?
Player or buisness?
IMO, and maybe from a biz pov, a game, relaxed realism, is more inclusive which usually breeds more revenue.
In AW, relaxed realism, more game-like, had the biggest numbers, far above Full realism.
Finding that honey spot to draw both simmers and gamers for the best revenue to live a long life.
That said, personally I prefer full realism. No dar outside the ring. Dar bars are fine, IMO.
When a formation flew over farm land someone reported seeing it, how I justify as realistic.
Otoh, it should bend for the new guy to stay interested.
I can take it or leave it, but I prefer less, but I also prefer the game stays alive.
Vets thinks its silly, noobs think its helpful while battling a huge learning curve and seasoned vets. Some I helped would be lost. Frustration would come faster.
I thinks its a hard call. But from a biz pov, it may stay. Its not a deal breaker for me.
The art of compromise, I guess.
<shrug>
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One DAR compromise might be to set the field dar to 15 minutes just like the hangars, and make the dar strat affect the proximity dar refresh rate (a slow refresh rate would help find a fight, but wouldn't substitute for SA or "reading the map"). I'm guessing both would be fairly simple to implement -- easy for me to say... :D
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I remember 11-12 or so years ago suggesting proxy dar for a specific aircraft.. we never got that Beaufighter :cry
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I remember asking for proxy dar so I love it. I hate talking on vox and proxy dar is a way of simulating what someone would do in real life, report the locations of things they see. Sure its more precise than it would be in real life, but how would you simulate otherwise? Something similar to GV dar for air?
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Animl -
Darbar was good enough for noobs for 15 years or so. Not hard to figure out. Now it’s more about retention of what we have and maybe bringing a few old sticks back. There is a pretty decent contingent of guys like me who are stubborn and don’t want to get in a Tempest, Dora, Yak3 or Pony and fight to clear other people’s 12 o’clock. What happens when the few of us left that want fights instead of kills start to dry up because pickers can’t be bothered to even look out the cockpit to be the 4th guy in line to pick off a single target? Even if there were any true noobs, how is making it easier for professional pickers to kill them in any way helping their retention?
Kong -
Radar rings have never been the problem. You cross into the ring and you’re on radar. Kill the tower and you the enemy uses darbar. I still think the towers need a little buff. Should take 500lb to bring one don’t instead of a single .50 cal pass. Elimination of proximity radar automatically makes the radar strat more relevant the same way it does for town guns. I don’t think it needed buy maybe…just maybe run the radar rings a bit further out? As far as proximity dar… I’d venture a guess that is as simple as a check box to turn on or off in arena settings. No work or programming needed.
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I remember asking for proxy dar so I love it. I hate talking on vox and proxy dar is a way of simulating what someone would do in real life, report the locations of things they see. Sure its more precise than it would be in real life, but how would you simulate otherwise? Something similar to GV dar for air?
For that specific issue, reverting to dots would probably be a decent compromise. Having had it for a long time now, I'm kind of wondering if it actually is too much info.
Mak's post makes a lot of sense, I was only seeing the upside of people actually noticing when there are threats inbound to a friendly base. Before the proxy dar, if there were bandits inbound, people would call them out on channel, zero response, then "Where did this attack group that has been marching across dar for a sector and a half come from?!"
Honestly not sure which is worse TBH, but Mak's point was a downside I hadn't considered.
Wiley.
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I remember asking for proxy dar so I love it. I hate talking on vox and proxy dar is a way of simulating what someone would do in real life, report the locations of things they see. Sure its more precise than it would be in real life, but how would you simulate otherwise? Something similar to GV dar for air?
How would you simulate accurate communication on frequency?!? I would do that by hitting the PTT button (available since day one) and talking.
You think WWII pilots had such amazing SA that it was equivalent of gps with radar overlays? Half of them were lost after getting in a dogfight and just went home because they couldn’t find anyone. They couldn’t pull out a clipboard that showed exactly where they were at. Even when they had radar, there was a controller vectoring them to target. Still, even then (and still to this day) there is winds aloft and weather and clouds and haze and sun that made even that amazing tool a fraction as accurate as what darbar provides.
GV dar is literally darbar for vehicles. If there was proximity dar for them they would light up with type of vehicle and direction they’re moving on my map when I flew within 6k them and show everyone on the map exactly where they are.
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When you can look at radar and tell which direction the con is going by what the plane icon shows is going too far imo...
It should be dot dar minimum with a 90 second delay to simulate some sort of fog of war just to throw in some kind of unknown...
Both these could be tested with minimal effort...
Eagler
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I consider myself somewhat of master sommelier for killing radars. I rather enjoy it.
I would love for them to be harder to kill. I have enjoyed adapting to the harden ammo bunkers.
I know the strat system with trucks and trains worked much different in the past but I am not an expert on that. Perhaps returning to some of that system or a hybrid could benefit gameplay in some manner. Seems a waste to have convoys and railroads if they are decoration. I know you can kill them but why bother.
I remember you could also get the fuel down at a base to only one tank. Is that still the case? I’ve never understood why more people do not spend more time leveling the troop Strat and then parking tents all around the fronts. No base takes, no resups… no problem.
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When you can look at radar and tell which direction the con is going by what the plane icon shows is going too far imo...
It should be dot dar minimum with a 90 second delay to simulate some sort of fog of war just to throw in some kind of unknown...
Both these could be tested with minimal effort...
Eagler
My absolute best compromise would be to have proximity radar available from the tower and darbar/radar rings in the air. It allows for players to find fights but doesn’t give an advantage in the air.
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I consider myself someone of a sommelier of killing radars. I rather enjoy it.
I would love for them to be harder to kill. I have enjoyed adapting to the harden ammo bunkers.
I know the strat system with trucks and trains worked much different in the past but I am not an expert on that. Perhaps returning to some of that system or a hybrid could benefit gameplay in some manner. Seems a waste to have convoys and railroads if they are decoration. I know you can kill them but why bother.
I remember you could also get the fuel down at a base to only one tank. Is that still the case? I’ve never understood why more people do not spend more time leveling the troop Strat and then parking tents all around the fronts. No base takes, no resups… no problem.
I saw my first train in the game last week,...flew in for a closer look,.... it shot me down, i had no clue they had guns. Bet that was funny
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My absolute best compromise would be to have proximity radar available from the tower and darbar/radar rings in the air. It allows for players to find fights but doesn’t give an advantage in the air.
Not disagreeing, but the present also gives you the same advantage. Just a thought to consider.
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I still believe that AI Missions loaded into the Terrains on repeating cycles will help build a larger player base. When players see the opposing AC on the radar. They know targets are available. Players can fly along with the AI Mission to augment the size.
A constant target rich environment will go a long way in building numbers.
There is another game that I play a lot that has ai integrated in the battles and it adds an interesting dynamic. The dang ai gunners are pretty good at close range and the pilots don't fly straight and level. There are no ai fighters or bombers, mostly ground attack planes shooting up stuff on the ground and bombing. If they are not taken out they can affect the outcome of the war as all the destroyed ground units count toward winning the battle.
I don't think that the implementation in AH3 would need to be that detailed. You could probably just drop some drones in from the dueling arena to liven things up.
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Not disagreeing, but the present also gives you the same advantage. Just a thought to consider.
I feel like I didn’t make myself clear. There’s a distinct difference having proximity radar available when you’re in the control tower than when you’re in the cockpit. They are not the same.
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What happens when the few of us left that want fights instead of kills start to dry up because pickers can’t be bothered to even look out the cockpit to be the 4th guy in line to pick off a single target?
Without meaning to get too involved in this discussion, I have almost no trouble finding fights, even though I'm always auto-switched to the low-numbers side. Last night I had to fly across most of France, down the Italian boot, and across the Adriatic Sea before I found a fight, but when I did, it was fun. Most nights don't require that much preparation. (As an aside: what a great map!)
I find it helps to fly an older plane. People are drawn to it for an easy kill (which, admittedly, it usually is). But the fights are still fun.
I like the current DAR simply because it does draw opponents to me.
- oldman
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I saw my first train in the game last week,...flew in for a closer look,.... it shot me down, i had no clue they had guns. Bet that was funny
Hang around the strats long enough and you’ll see plenty.
And they tell you in the game loading screen pop-ups, that the trains will shoot you. You must’ve seen this I’ve seen it hundreds of times.
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Hang around the strats long enough and you’ll see plenty.
And they tell you in the game loading screen pop-ups, that the trains will shoot you. You must’ve seen this I’ve seen it hundreds of times.
It loads so fast here I rarely get to read that stuff. Zip gone.
I thought it was funny. Lets have a look,,.. WHOA!!! lets not and say we did
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I feel like I didn’t make myself clear. There’s a distinct difference having proximity radar available when you’re in the control tower than when you’re in the cockpit. They are not the same.
Naww, I get it, and mostly agree. I just don't want it to be a deal breaker for ya.
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It loads so fast here I rarely get to read that stuff. Zip gone.
I thought it was funny. Lets have a look,,.. WHOA!!! lets not and say we did
I only get the one but I’ve seen this one a lot. Wonder how many there are? I would be up for submitting new ones if that would be allowed. Even tiny additions like that are fun for those that remain.
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It loads so fast here I rarely get to read that stuff. Zip gone.
I thought it was funny. Lets have a look,,.. WHOA!!! lets not and say we did
All my maps have trains at the Strats, Ports and the Large Air Fields.
There is no setting, I know of, in the Arena tables for proximity dar. There is, however, a setting for for Radar Refresh, minimum Radar Alt. and Radar range.
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All my maps have trains at the Strats, Ports and the Large Air Fields.
There is no setting, I know of, in the Arena tables for proximity dar. There is, however, a setting for for Radar Refresh, minimum Radar Alt. and Radar range.
I think you put them back in. I left during AH2, not sure we had them then. Strafing it for fun not a great idea.
I THINK we are referring to the dar from a plane, outside the ring.
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There is no setting, I know of, in the Arena tables for proximity dar. There is, however, a setting for for Radar Refresh, minimum Radar Alt. and Radar range.
Then why is there no proximity radar in scenarios and FSO? It’s been forever since I personally messed with arena settings, but I would venture a guess it’s there in some form or another. Even if we as players don’t have access to it, it behaves differently than radar rings so I would think it’s an easy revision.
Proximity radar gives advantage to the side who has the most people within a sector or so. Either shut it off or simply make radar available to everyone all the time. Ten local pilots shouldn’t have a tactical advantage over a lone defender or two.
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You can adjust the delay to a point it is so behind dar could be neutered...
Eagler
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Then why is there no proximity radar in scenarios and FSO? It’s been forever since I personally messed with arena settings, but I would venture a guess it’s there in some form or another. Even if we as players don’t have access to it, it behaves differently than radar rings so I would think it’s an easy revision.
Proximity radar gives advantage to the side who has the most people within a sector or so. Either shut it off or simply make radar available to everyone all the time. Ten local pilots shouldn’t have a tactical advantage over a lone defender or two.
As I stated, "that I know of", that does not mean there isn't one. I will add this to my "list" for the next visit with Hitech. :rock
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You can adjust the delay to a point it is so behind dar could be neutered...
Eagler
I get that and it might have the desired effect but I also see the drawbacks.
First, I believe it would work the same in radar rings as well. So let’s say you could set it for a 10-30 second delay. It might do the same in radar rings as well since proximity works essentially the same as having a personal 6k radar ring. Would that be an acceptable consequence of adjusting the delay?
Second, there’s a very real problem of players gaming the proximity radar to gain absolute advantages (pick with impunity). Plugging that delay in might fix it or make those players just delay even further before they do.
Third, it could also increase the trend I’m seeing now where large forces basically orbit and wait for the other side to become the tip of the spear. Then do what they’re already doing.
It definitely would help eliminate radar used as a substitute for looking out of the glass though. Proximity radar has become a crutch that we all use. Why look back or rock your wings to see below when you can just bring up the map? It destroys less tangible advantages that certain planes have over others. It’s hard to see below the wings of a P-38. Or out of the back of a 109. The advantage of the bubble in a P-51D is dampened. No need to scan the all sectors of sky when in a bomber. Clouds would become more relevant.
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As I stated, "that I know of", that does not mean there isn't one. I will add this to my "list" for the next visit with Hitech. :rock
Understood. :salute
Has anyone experimented with “dot dar” in player arenas? I’d be curious to see if turning it on would enable proximity or just affect the radar towers/rings. If they’re tied in, I can see how adjusting it would take some work. Even so, I believe that proximity radar simply makes each plane and GV act an independent radar tower that ranges out to 6k (which should definitely be turned off of GVs). My suspicion is that turning on dot dar will also turn on personal radar rings.
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Understood. :salute
Has anyone experimented with “dot dar” in player arenas? I’d be curious to see if turning it on would enable proximity or just affect the radar towers/rings. If they’re tied in, I can see how adjusting it would take some work. Even so, I believe that proximity radar simply makes each plane and GV act an independent radar tower that ranges out to 6k (which should definitely be turned off of GVs). My suspicion is that turning on dot dar will also turn on personal radar rings.
Any time you want to go to an arena and test this, let me know I'll join you, and we'll see what we can find out. :salute
My custom training arena is in the AVA at the moment, we could test it there. :salute
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Any time you want to go to an arena and test this, let me know I'll join you, and we'll see what we can find out. :salute
My custom training arena is in the AVA at the moment, we could test it there. :salute
If you see me online just hit me up and I’d happy to check it out.
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If you see me online just hit me up and I’d happy to check it out.
Will do sir! :aok
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Will do sir! :aok
I'm about to pay you the $15 instead. You earn it
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I personally enjoy being on the lopsided team. Shooting N1Ks with cannon and wont go down, shooting low slow aircraft with an HE round and it keeps going....... then expected to keep reupping so 5 can jump in........ we don't have the numbers for 3 countries..... smaller maps and hell, I say have one day when the teams are randomized. You go where the game puts you. Squads and country loyalists can sustain one day of even sided fighting.
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What was tonight’s gv kill total for ya ? I know 1 sortie was 48 kills before they got ya Maineac1 but think was was over 100 total
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Operation bolo type deception won’t work with bombers having different icons than fighters.
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What was tonight’s gv kill total for ya ? I know 1 sortie was 48 kills before they got ya Maineac1 but think was was over 100 total
47 in one sortie