Author Topic: Saw on russian news...  (Read 2033 times)

Offline Udie

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3395
Saw on russian news...
« Reply #45 on: October 02, 2000, 08:33:00 PM »
 
Quote
Originally posted by Dowding:
Having siad that, you can get around it if you know the right people, if you know what I mean.


 


Udie

Offline Boroda

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5755
Saw on russian news...
« Reply #46 on: October 03, 2000, 10:58:00 AM »
Dowding, this is WAR.   Journalists are under military control, just like in Gulf war. If they are not licensed - they are spying. Isn't it clear?

And no doubt, there are civilian losses. Like in any partisan war. But IMHO it is better then letting the part of Russia live according to Shariat laws.

Babitskiy is a representatve of the kind I hate. He serves my enemies, the ones who kidnap people, terrorise Russian population in Caucasus, sell drugs, torture POWs, etc. Did he mention all that? No. Chechens are no freedom fighters, and people like him do their best to justify all their crimes.

------------------
With respect,
    Pavel Pavlov,
    Commissar 25th IAP WB VVS

Offline Dowding

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6867
      • http://www.psys07629.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/272/index.html
Saw on russian news...
« Reply #47 on: October 04, 2000, 05:16:00 AM »
 
Quote
Originally posted by Boroda:


Babitskiy is a representatve of the kind I hate. He serves my enemies, the ones who kidnap people, terrorise Russian population in Caucasus, sell drugs, torture POWs, etc. Did he mention all that? No. Chechens are no freedom fighters, and people like him do their best to justify all their crimes.


You hate him for reporting on what life was like for civilians and the rebels? Just because he opposed the government's views? From the reports I read and heard, he wasn't 'justifying' anything - he was trying to show Russia what the Russian forces were doing, and what was happening to the Russian forces.

His reports described the day to day life of the Grozny civilians - something neither Russian or Western news did.

War! Never been so much fun. War! Never been so much fun! Go to your brother, Kill him with your gun, Leave him lying in his uniform, Dying in the sun.

Offline -lynx-

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 340
Saw on russian news...
« Reply #48 on: October 04, 2000, 08:38:00 AM »
Dowding - sorry pal, I think you're the one who is brainwashed here. You gladly accept one point of view, rejecting outright the other as "government views". Bad ruskies - good freedom fighters all over again.

What you forget is that Boroda is actually there, in Russia, looking at the whole thing from his, a Russian civilian point of view. He didn't force thousands of people to flee from Grozny/Chechnya. It is him who's on a lookout for "suspicious" packages...

 
Quote

His reports described the day to day life of the Grozny civilians - something neither Russian or Western news did.


I don't need a reporter to describe this to me - my parents had to flee Grozny, my mom cried on the phone when she saw 9 storey apartment block they used to live in reduced to a pile of rubble.

Once again - if you show just one side of the story you are as good as forcing your view upon viewers. No need to lie - just show no all of the truth.

------------------
lynx
13 Sqn RAF

Offline Boroda

  • Persona Non Grata
  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5755
Saw on russian news...
« Reply #49 on: October 04, 2000, 12:45:00 PM »
Dowding, Russian TV showed a lot of materials describing the life in Grozniy during and after the assault...

Now there are many documental films about it on TV, with previously "censored" materials that were unclassified only after the hostilities ended.

It's all sad  

And the saddest thing is that all this gangster's "republic" could be easily destroyed and put to order in 1991-92.

BTW, this war was nessesary for the regime in mid-90s. You can't imagine how much money was sent into this black hole! People like Boris Berezovskiy got enormous profits out of it.

Another question: everyone heard about K-141 "Kursk". Have you ever heard about a company of Russian paratroopers that lost 95 of 100 soldiers holding a force of ~2500 gangsters in a mountain pass for almost 24 hours?...

And Dowding, Russian soldiers die not only for the orders from Kremlin, but to save happy and peace-loving Europe from drugs and terrorism too.

Sorry  

------------------
With respect,
    Pavel Pavlov,
    Commissar 25th IAP WB VVS

Offline Dowding

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6867
      • http://www.psys07629.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/272/index.html
Saw on russian news...
« Reply #50 on: October 04, 2000, 06:25:00 PM »
Lynx - I never said 'Ruskies bad - chechens good'. And where did I accuse Boroda of being commander of the Russian armed forces in Chechnya? He isn't responsible - but his goverment is, IMO.

I'm sorry if it offends you that I find it hard to accept the output of news organisations from a country that was under communism for 70 years. I really don't think that, despite the changes in the last 10 years, that you can compare the BBC or any Western news organisation with a Russian contemporary. It's naive to think that government control over the media can be washed away so suddenly. More specifically,  I think old habits die hard, in this case in the way the Russian government handles the 'free' media. But things are changing.

Western presses did show both sides when possible - for instance the bombing of that Moscow apartment block - but also the indescriminate shelling of Grozny. As for it being a warzone, and that the Russians would see journalists as spies - that sums up the whole attitude of the Russian government to the media. War correspondants go everywhere in a war - in the Gulf War they were in Baghdad, Kuwait City, Tehran etc. It's the same with Kosovo and the Balkans - there were reports coming in from Serbia itself about the effect of the bombing. I don't think the Western media is above bias - I wouldn't just blindly agree with a report just because it came from the BBC, for example. I don't think, on the other hand, that the BBC or CNN would DELIBERATELY mislead on an issue. There are far too many other organisations, such as newspapers, which scream about such an action. Their reputation would never recover.

It's not that I don't accept what you're saying Boroda - I'm just going on what I've heard from other people living in Russia, or people like Babitsky. Sure the rebels did terrible things, and deserve to be labelled as 'gangsters' to some extent. But so did the Russian forces. I just think it wasn't a clean cut as 'terrorists versus glorious Russian armed forces'. What would people like Babitsky have to gain by lying, whereas I can see why the government would censor the output of the news programs, hiding the fact that so many of their young soldiers were being killed, and were killing so many civilians in the process.

Why did only one small radio station carry Babitsky's reports?

How can anyone justify the incarceration of kids as young as twelve, who are somehow judged to be of fighting age? Their families had no idea where they were being taken - perhaps they still don't know?
War! Never been so much fun. War! Never been so much fun! Go to your brother, Kill him with your gun, Leave him lying in his uniform, Dying in the sun.