Author Topic: Girly Man? (Read 1899 times)

capt. apathy · « **Reply #60 on:** September 16, 2004, 01:02:21 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by -MZ-
You're a nut if you think the 2nd Amendment is there to give you the capability to commit terrorism against the government.

call it what you will, thats exactly what it's there for.

it was written by a bunch of guys who were fed up with their gov't and use guns to take the power away and set up a system that they found more fitting. they put the amendment in to make sure that the people always had the power to stand up if the gov't goes to far out of control.

I don't understand how someone can read their history books, look at the situation they were in when it was written, and not realize that this is exactly what they were talking about.

Terror · « **Reply #61 on:** September 16, 2004, 01:04:57 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by -MZ-
You're a nut if you think the 2nd Amendment is there to give you the capability to commit terrorism against the government.

The second amendment is there to insure that the government cannot say a law-abiding citizen cannot own "arms". Just because a weapon can be used for terrorism, does not mean it should be restricted from a civilian. Thats what a nopen free society is about. Innocent until proven guilty. Anything can be used to commit "terrorism" not just certain weapons or calibers.

Terror

bustr · « **Reply #62 on:** September 16, 2004, 01:13:02 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by -MZ-
You're a nut if you think the 2nd Amendment is there to give you the capability to commit terrorism against the government.

MZ, who is the government and who are we? If we are "We the People" as defined in the declaration and constitution than it is not terrorism. The 2A is to ensure we can curb human nature. If you allow persons to abuse, rob, and cheat you under the guise of government, they will claim it the norm and that you agree they are in the right since they are the government. Your life and what happens during it is your responsibility, not the governments. Once Power is achived by a human, by 5000 years of recorded history, most humans abuse their fellow humans with it. The constitution shrewedly addresses the core human short comings in relation to Power over your fellow man.

Many humans will only stop abusing their fellows when their life is 100% at risk. The 2A provides this deterrent for the most egregious violators of the Oath of Office. Those are historicly the ones who subvert and overthrow the lawfull existing governemnt to their own ends.

You guys should really read Blackstone, Locke, and the Federalist Papers. Ceasers comentairies, Macioveli and Lenin. We act no differently today than humans in the Last 5000 years. Power is Power. In the west we are more usefull as we are working 1/3 of the year for the government. That makes it harder to convice anyone that their government does not beleive in "We the People".

lazs2 · « **Reply #63 on:** September 16, 2004, 01:52:01 PM »

mz... just curious... what do you think the 2nd is there for? Hunting maybe?

do you crawl around on your belly with a double barrel shotgun to hunt deer like kerrie?

lazs

-MZ- · « **Reply #64 on:** September 16, 2004, 01:58:07 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by bustr
You guys should really read Blackstone, Locke, and the Federalist Papers. Ceasers comentairies, Macioveli and Lenin.

You can add Hobbes, Socrates, Mill, Marx, Paine, and all the rest. I am familiar with social and political philosophy.

While there are many utopian visions of the masses rising up and taking back whatever, you can throw that out the window in our current situation. Unless this revolution has the support of the military, you're going to get squashed like a Branch Dividian.

I posit that the 2nd Amendment is there for the situations when the government can't protect you - such as being confronted by a criminal, being in a riot, or out in the wild.

-MZ- · « **Reply #65 on:** September 16, 2004, 02:00:02 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by lazs2

do you crawl around on your belly with a double barrel shotgun to hunt deer like kerrie?

Last time I went 'hunting' was from the back of a pick up truck with a Marlin .22, looking for squirrels.

lazs2 · « **Reply #66 on:** September 16, 2004, 02:19:42 PM »

mz... if the government has the backing of all the army (which are, after all... citizens) then probly a revolt against that government should fail. A tyrannical government in the U.S. would not have the backing of the entire military.

other than that... you have interpreted the 2nd correctly.

lazs

tce2506 · « **Reply #67 on:** September 16, 2004, 02:23:41 PM »

MZ,
Should it ever come to us versus the gov't, rest assured that more than half of the military would be on the people's side. Not sure if you have served or not, but in the oath it says ".... to defend our country from all enemies foreign and domestic...", and at least while I was in, that one little blurb got more discussion than any other. 90% of the people I hung around with would be AWOL if it ever came to our Gov't trying to take away our guns. Since about 50% of the military is made up of southern individuals, I doubt this has changed.

A marlin .22 and squirrels............now that brings back some memories!!