Author Topic: The jugfire  (Read 8250 times)

Offline GRUNHERZ

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The jugfire
« Reply #120 on: August 04, 2001, 11:14:00 PM »
Guess what you got a P47 without this prop, thats what HTC made and just like every plane they model they had their reasons and logic to do it this way.

Stop being such "Alliedwhiners"   :)


Just calm down and practice turning with those spits....

Offline Buzzbait

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The jugfire
« Reply #121 on: August 05, 2001, 12:18:00 AM »
S!

HTC made their decision on the D11 before they were made aware that the Paddle Blade Props were retro-fitted to all the Razorbacks in the first week of January '44.  The issue was first raised in a previous posting and it was clear then that they did not know this was the case.

I would expect in the light of the new information they will adjust their D11 model.

Offline Karnak

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« Reply #122 on: August 05, 2001, 05:28:00 AM »
So we have a P-47D-11 modeled as they were before the change in propellors.

What's the big deal?

Many aircraft in AH are not modeled at their best.  Just because the P-47D-11 is not the best it ever was doesn't mean it isn't fair.

The USAAF already has plenty of 1944 aircraft.  I think its good that the P-47D-11 is modeled as a 1943 aircraft.
Petals floating by,
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Offline -ammo-

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« Reply #123 on: August 05, 2001, 10:10:00 AM »
edited because I have beat this horse to death. Sorry bout that.

[ 08-05-2001: Message edited by: -ammo- ]
Commanding Officer, 56 Fighter Group
Retired USAF - 1988 - 2011

Offline Karnak

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« Reply #124 on: August 05, 2001, 04:23:00 PM »
Ammo,

Didn't read your post before you edited it, but I think I can guess what it said.

I have to admit that I posted what I did after only reading the top of the thread and the last few messages.

If, and I have no reason not to belive you, the P-47D-11 first went into service with the paddle propellor and is a 1944 aircraft, then that is how I think it should be modeled.

I should also note that I don't think it should have been modeled.  A true 1943 P-47 should have been modeled instead.
Petals floating by,
      Drift through my woman's hand,
             As she remembers me-

Offline Buzzbait

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The jugfire
« Reply #125 on: August 05, 2001, 07:44:00 PM »
S! Karnak

You don't like the ridiculous hybrid of a Spit IX which AH has now, you want a real Spit IX or a Spit VIII.  (I do too)  Well, the current modelling of the D11 is the same thing.

Offline Karnak

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« Reply #126 on: August 06, 2001, 12:48:00 AM »
Buzzbait,

I see it as similar, but not quite the same.

The P-47D-11 we have now did exist, but was modified before it ever saw combat. I agree that it should be modeled as the combat version.

The Spitfire MkIX we have never existed.  There was never a Spitfire with a Merlin 61 engine that was armed with 2 20mm cannon and 2 50 calibre machine guns, carrying a German 300 litre drop tank and two 60lb rockets.

As we have the P-47D-11 I agree that it should be modeled with the paddle propellor.  That requires some flight model work.

The Spitfire MkIX we have can be easily fixed by removing the 50 cal option, removing the rocket ordinance option, giving it a British drop tank and relabeling it "Spitfire F.Mk IX".

Nashwan's tests indicate it matches the performance of the F.IX as closely as any AH aircraft matches its real counterpart's test data.

I say, fix 'em both.
Petals floating by,
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             As she remembers me-

Offline Vruth

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The jugfire
« Reply #127 on: August 06, 2001, 12:35:00 PM »
I have a counter-point about the D-11.

When it's fixed (300lbs added), if you want it back the old way, take 50% fuel with you and drop tanks.

Karnak, changing the prop will only effect linear acceleration. Since the D-11 has the aerodynamics of a milk jug ~ linear acceleration is not a true factor in combat for this aircraft. I say NO to the prop modelling. Not needed.

As for the Spit IX hybrid, don't fly with 50 cals. Personally, I'd rather see more work on more aircraft than changing existing ones that work fine (except for the poor-ole P-38).

Vruth, First Lieutenant, F3D1S1L, AirCom, MS
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Offline -ammo-

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« Reply #128 on: August 06, 2001, 05:05:00 PM »
I took this form the book "JG26- Top Guns of the Luftwaffe" Page 202-203. The author starts out stating that in early 1944, the Schlageter pilots found themselves opposing five Allied fighter types..the Spitfire, P-51B (one FG), typhoon, P-38, and the P-47. The athor goes on to say that the P-51 was an unknown quantity to this point in the war, the P-38 unimpressed them (no offence lightening fans, just what the author says), and then he went on to state this-

"when flown by an experienced pilot, the "jug" had proved able to hold its own at high altitude against any German fighter. New models had engines equiped with water injection, which boosted combat performance at all operational altitudes. Another modification, the paddle blade propeller, markedly improved low altitude climbrate. the new props were retrofitted to all P-47's in the United Kingdom as rapidly as possible. In the P-47D, the Americans had an airplane capable of driving the Luftwaffe from the skies. Thunderbolt pilots could chase their targets from the vicinityof the bomber stream all the way to the deck, confident in their mount's ability to return them, if necessary, to the security of high altitude. the only barrier to more aggresive tactics by the American fighter pilots was the Eighth Air Force's policy on close escort- and that was now about to change."

OK Im  done :)
Commanding Officer, 56 Fighter Group
Retired USAF - 1988 - 2011