Is religion a good thing?

[gofaster]

Ancient weapons and hokey religions are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid.

[miko2d]

Masherbrum: Enjoy life, keep flaming religion for no reason, YOU show your true colors Miko. Keep "trying to be right"
 Where did you find me flaming religion? By mentioning Voltaire? What, is he on the list of proscribed books?
 I never made a secret of my non-religiocity. At the same time I stated my preference in living in religious society as long as separation of church from state is maintained.
 I am fortunate to work in an environment where most of the people I run across are smarter than I am - however improbable it may sound. And quite a few of them are religious and command my utmost respect.

 I just made a statement above that I view dumb atheists exactly the same as I view dumb religious people - and do not care for either kind much.
 Doesn't that indicate thet I would never attempt to argue validity of religion by implying mental inferiority of it's adherents- if I ever cared to? Even if I did, wouldn't I be arguing with a smart person who can understand my arguments? And would I be trying to persuade a smart person that he is dumb?
 Why would I ever be offending or arguing or even talking to a person I consider dumb? What would be a point?

 I do not start religion-bashing threads. I do make comments on particular inconsistencies to show off my erudition in an internet version of pissing content but mostly to practice my English and in hope to elicit some smart and educating responce from a few people on this board who are worth listening to.

 If you ever suspect that I may be offending someone, it would be more productive to ask me. I will gladly confirm or dispell it and edit my post for more clarity, if needed. Of course if you just look for a pretext to fly off the handle, be my guest...


midnight Target: Seems as though some of us are a little too sensitive. Was Voltaire saying that only the lower class benefitted from religion? I don't think so.

 Absolutely not. What he ment was that society benefitted when lower class had a religion - even if it was detrimental to the lower class as religion sometimes was. Bunching together and exchanging bodily fluids during church rituals was an exellent way to spread desease. A single mother and her bastard baby would have benefitted from not being rejected by society for religious reason. A divorce is often better than alternative but catholicism does not allow it. Without religious insistence on obeying authority they could have been more active in demanding higher wages or better living conditions, etc.

 Voltaire could not think of a better way of keeping his chamber-maid honest than religious belief in all-seing punishing God. They did not have close-circuit TV surveillance then.

 miko

[Masherbrum]

That's what Voltaire said - something along the lines that if religion had not existed, it should have been invented for the ignorant lower classes.


" just made a statement above that I view dumb atheists exactly the same as I view dumb religious people - and do not care for either kind much.
Doesn't that indicate thet I would never attempt to argue validity of religion by implying mental inferiority of it's adherents- if I ever cared to? Even if I did, wouldn't I be arguing with a smart person who can understand my arguments? And would I be trying to persuade a smart person that he is dumb?
Why would I ever be offending or arguing or even talking to a person I consider dumb? What would be a point?"

You're a rather judgemental person Miko.  Why?  I've laughed at people who do this all of my life and wonder why they feel they are better than others.  I don't even want to know, what compels you to think this way.

Ignorant Lower Class, hmm.

I'm through Miko, you continue this on your own, your flag is riddled with holes.

K2

[miko2d]

I'm through Miko, you continue this on your own, your flag is riddled with holes.
 Oh, yea - you want to have the last word but I know you will be back to read the reply after spewing a bit of nonsensisal garbage on me. I would say that I know your type - but that would be judgemental...

You're a rather judgemental person Miko.
 In my non-religion being judjemental is not a sin. Unlike you I would not have to deny when practicing it. But even if I am judgemental, how did you figure it out from what I posted? There was not a bit of judgement there. In fact there was not even my position there but Voltaire's.
 I did say I preferred to live among religious middle class but nowhere did I say that I agree with his idea of imposing religion on lower class (the one below the middle one). I recognise that there are benefits from it to society but I am not sure those benefits outweight the drawbacks and risks. Dumb religious lower class are only good while they listen to you not to steal and misbehave and adhere to family values. Sooner or later a charismatic leader will come up that would tell them to do jihad in the name of the same religion.
 Of course Voltaire's middle class was very different from ours - there were quite a few capable people among those without much opportunity to advance.

 What? I offended you by saying that I do not care what dumb people think? Or by labeling some people dumb? Dumb is a pretty objective definition. Say IQ <100. Or whatever.
 Did I imply that being dumb was wrong or sinfull and that those people chose to be dumb out of inherent evilness?
 Because judgement must involve "right" and "wrong". Otherwise it's called "measurement".

 I really do not care what dumb people think because it is of no interest to me - as opposed to what they may know that I do not which is interesting to me. Are you any different?

 If someone can impress me with fancy logical schemes worth my time, such person would not be dumb, would he?
 And lower class is ignorant and dumb in US of A because smart and learned have ample opportunity for advancement here - unlike in Voltaire's times.

 I bet you will not be able contain youself and will shoot another argument having nothing to do whith what I said or what I think. Bring it on...

 miko

[midnight Target]

Miko, do you realize you just wrote a paragraph on the fact that we agreed?













I know English practice. I admire that actually, couldn't write 2 words in Russian.

[hblair]

Originally posted by Fyre
 

If more members of humanity patterned their lives around the teachings of Jesus Christ the world would be a better, more peaceful place.  He never preached jihad.


Regards, Shuckins

What he ^ said.

[senna]

I try to pattern my life after Jesus Christs teachings. However I have difficulty with it since I'm always surrounded by amazinhunks who are going to HELL. And they know it.

[miko2d]

If more members of humanity patterned their lives around the teachings of Jesus Christ the world would be a better, more peaceful place. He never preached jihad.
 Who was that guy who brought not the peace but sword?
 OK, I am only joking. Jesus is a good example for all people to follow.

 miko

[lazs2]

not to debate too much but.... If you live long enough you will find yourself in a situation that you can't handle yourself.   You will need to draw on some spiritual strength that you did not know you possesed.  

I don't know what to call that but it is a good thing.
lazs

[miko2d]

I have a practical concern. If considerable part of the population believes that there will be rapture soon, they have absolutely no interest in ensuring that the Earth will still be liveable in the future.
 They also believe that some outside force may interfere and not allow ecological disaster.
 So they use my tax money to subcidise most ecologically-damaging agriculture, help Israel because it will bring in the second coming - not because they have any concern for jews living there or their democracy, and other purely religion-mandated policies.

 Whether rapture occure or not, I and my children will still be here and I resent that kind of practical policies resulting from their religious views forced on me.
 Nothing personal.

 miko

[Eagler]

miko

aren't you late for your cloning appointment ???

LOL - the world needs more EXACTLY like you

[Rude]

Originally posted by miko2d
I have a practical concern. If considerable part of the population believes that there will be rapture soon, they have absolutely no interest in ensuring that the Earth will still be liveable in the future.
 They also believe that some outside force may interfere and not allow ecological disaster.
 So they use my tax money to subcidise most ecologically-damaging agriculture, help Israel because it will bring in the second coming - not because they have any concern for jews living there or their democracy, and other purely religion-mandated policies.

 Whether rapture occure or not, I and my children will still be here and I resent that kind of practical policies resulting from their religious views forced on me.
 Nothing personal.

 miko

God's Word teaches stewardship over all aspects of our lives, including creation itself.

Do you really believe that correct policy can save you and your family?

[Holden McGroin]

In a previous life, I was Torquemada, so I have no problem with religion... in moderation... at least as long as you believe as I do.

[wsnpr]

Religion can be a good or bad thing. It is the people that make religion what it is.