Author Topic: Balance Inquiry (Read 1933 times)

Reschke · « **Reply #30 on:** March 10, 2003, 01:10:23 PM »

I don't think that Nimitz is referring to having that particular squadron wiped out because of a single group of planes. I think that he is concerned that we as LW only have 12 Me-262's (which are a hot ride as well when flown right) and unlimited Tempests (which are quite possibly the best ride that the Allies have in this setup.). Especially when they are flown correctly. So I do think that the Tempest should be limited. But I am far from one to say limit them to a specific number.

Machine · « **Reply #31 on:** March 10, 2003, 01:25:03 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Holder3
I can't say anything about the rest of the event, but anytime a squad gets caught with it's pants down (like the P-47s or the Fw-190s we caught), they will get spanked. And that has nothing to do with side-balancing, but more with the decisions of the side CO and the vagaries of war.

Ahhh, finally someone see's it like it is. This is really more than a fly around and shoot'em up event. You actually have to plan on what and how you are going to do things.

How you are going to protect your targets or how you are going to attack your targets, where from, how long the enemy can stay up on their tank of gas, how long you can stay up on your tank of gas, how many guys stay up and wait while you fuel up, what alt you fly at, and many other variables.

As, I can remember there are many stories about squadron's that were meet in the air by over-whelming odds and superior strength, but over came that, because of good planing. And this is from the real deal, straight out of the history books.

Sixpence · « **Reply #32 on:** March 10, 2003, 02:11:44 PM »

But you have to attack ground targets in the event. That's where the allies have the advantage, on the deck. If this were just 20k+ dogfighting, I'de call it close to equal. The object of the LW was to intercept our mossies. We just kept them low, once the LW came down for the mossies we pounced them, they didn't have a chance. Lol, the mossies were shooting them down. I'll take a group of spit14's against any number of 109's or 190's low.

Nifty · « **Reply #33 on:** March 10, 2003, 02:35:27 PM »

and you guys wondered why I didn't wanna be a Squad Ops CM anymore.

Shamus · « **Reply #34 on:** March 10, 2003, 02:53:29 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Machine
Gee, I wish I could say the same for you! But I can't!

If the glove doesn't fit, you must acquit!

ROFLMAO

Me thinks Machine may have some personal issues here

shamus

Machine · « **Reply #35 on:** March 10, 2003, 05:04:09 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Shamus
Me thinks Machine may have some personal issues here

shamus

Me thinks you should get a mind reading business too!

Or you could always stop thinking! LOL

Holder3 · « **Reply #36 on:** March 10, 2003, 09:22:01 PM »

So the basic argument is that no matter what the setup, the sides should be roughly equal. In the specific time period, if one side has an "uber plane", then it should be limited. I believe the design CMs try to do this (I will certainly try to), however, in some historical periods this just doesn't work out. In a North African Squad Ops there is no way the LW would stand for having Bf-109Fs limited just because all the Allies had to offer were P-40Es. In a Pacific matchup would the Allies have to limit the numbers of F6Fs and Corsairs just because the Japanese over Rabaul didn't have anything better than an A6M5b? Or would we start throwing in hot aircraft that aren't historically correct? I don't think we would really want to go too far down that road.

Considering that the choice of aircraft is limited (I would love to see more early war aircraft

) on both sides, the CMs try to do what they can to meet playability issues and historical issues. I believe daddog decided to add the Fw-190A5 to the mix to try and help the LW with the playability issue

. However, if players insist on flying without escorts, or low and slow over "Dodge", then woe is them and there is nothing that the CM can, or should do, to help that situation.

Machine · « **Reply #37 on:** March 11, 2003, 01:21:11 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Holder3
Considering that the choice of aircraft is limited (I would love to see more early war aircraft ) on both sides, the CMs try to do what they can to meet playability issues and historical issues. I believe daddog decided to add the Fw-190A5 to the mix to try and help the LW with the playability issue . However, if players insist on flying without escorts, or low and slow over "Dodge", then woe is them and there is nothing that the CM can, or should do, to help that situation.

While we are on the subject, I would love to see some B=24's in the game! After all, we had more of these type of heavy bombers than we did B-17's.
Another interesting fact is that the P-47 did some 10,000 sorties {this number could even be 100,000, I don't remember the whole artical I read, but I know it was a lot compaired to the number lost!} during the war and they only lost something like 1% of them. The reason: They were one tuff sucker! A pilot with a p-47 was a happy camper. The other side had a terrible time of shooting them down, because they were a flying tank! Nothing like the game p-47. Cause if it were, boy would the complaints be rolling in now!

I'm happy!

Zanth · « **Reply #38 on:** March 11, 2003, 08:59:03 AM »

I was one of the Tempests, (I erased my films couple days ago cleaning up hardrive to try too increase performance of my computer). I recall being about 22k in altitude and being quite concernd that 109g10s were going to jump me any moment.

That our opponents were lower than us was a welcome sight. Holder's assesssment is quite true and frankly, in this particular engagement, we could have been flying almost anything.

The Tempest is an enjoyable plane to fly. In the end though we did not land too many of them.

Quote

Originally posted by Holder3
As I recall the 109s and 190s that were slaughtered by at least one squadron of Tempests (880 Fleet Air Arm) were low and slow as they had just finished bombing a factory group. We dropped on them from 20 and 30K like 16 tons of bricks. In that situation we could have been flying Typhoons at 10K against low and slow Ta-152s and probably still done in most of the Germans, simply because of our alt and speed advantages. I don't think in this particular fight the relative differences between the Tempest and the LW rides was much of a factor.

By the way, we did loose four pilots in that "scuffle", several by self-imposed augers (not used to the "hotness" of the Tempest) and several from the LW.

I can't say anything about the rest of the event, but anytime a squad gets caught with it's pants down (like the P-47s or the Fw-190s we caught), they will get spanked. And that has nothing to do with side-balancing, but more with the decisions of the side CO and the vagaries of war.

Machine · « **Reply #39 on:** March 11, 2003, 12:36:59 PM »

Sure wish you would have keep that film!

ghostdancer · « **Reply #40 on:** March 11, 2003, 06:07:02 PM »

Holder3 that was my squad your boys bounced in the North. You caught us refueling. Our diminished hi-cap did its best to stop you but as you said when you guys came screaming in with alt .. well it was messy. We lost 8 in that fracas but took down 4. Fortunately 3 of our Jabos got away and hit the factory again.

It was nasty and truthfully my guys thought it was the best frame yet in SqOps. Very good counterpoint to our hitting your factory 27 strong where we only lost 1 plane to compression and killed 3 P51s (5 of ours tangled with the 3 while rest attacked and capped factory).

So when you showed up it really made the palms sweat and heart race. I know I was dodging and jinking all over the place and twice a Spit locked on and pulled every trick I knew to lose him (prevented me from killing 2 mossies).

Was a good fight.

First attack on the Factory was 10 F8s, 4 A8s, and 13 G10s. We lost 1 and bagged 3 P51s. You bounced us and we lost 8 but bagged 4. And at the end of the night only 6 planes were left operational out of 28 .. 12 others were too damaged to fly till end frame or crashed.

Machine · « **Reply #41 on:** March 11, 2003, 08:17:41 PM »

Excellent account of what went on Ghost! Made me feel like I was there! Very cool!