Author Topic: Fully loaded Chinook shot down in Iraq (Read 4682 times)

Engine · « **Reply #45 on:** November 03, 2003, 03:20:38 AM »

Why? We all know david is a crackhead. A dissertation on the validity of his posts won't help.

Angus · « **Reply #46 on:** November 03, 2003, 03:29:04 AM »

Sorry to jump into a silly argument like that, but getting a little back to the thread topic, these are bad news indeed. Wouldn't it make sense to escort Chinooks that are loaded with troops? With a combat Helicopter I mean. It would not stop a missilie hitting for sure, but perhaps there would not be a second one. Not to mention the mental effect, - not so pleasent having an angry Apache hunting you is it?

-tronski- · « **Reply #47 on:** November 03, 2003, 06:23:58 AM »

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Originally posted by Sandman_SBM
MAN Portable Air Defense

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Originally posted by _Schadenfreude_
Man Portable SAM, SA7, SA14, SA16, Stinger - they stop helicopters from flying as the Sovs found out in Afghanistan.....

Thanks guys, never heard of it being called that before..

Tronsky

Airhead · « **Reply #48 on:** November 03, 2003, 09:17:32 AM »

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Originally posted by Thrawn
Instead why don't you refute his arguments? If they are as invald as you make them sound, you should be able to so with little difficulty. Because I certainly don't see wtf his cronological age has to with it. Perhaps I should disqualify what such a fossil has to say based on the fact that he is older than dirt.

The respect I do or do not show veterns has nothing to do with the strengh of my arguments. Infact, calling upon such a thing is nothing but base rhetoric.

Airhead, really, break it down and refute.

Refute what? His jabbering nonsense?

Davidpt40 reminds me of the four old in the grocery cart in the check out line. You know the one- the kid who throws a fit because he doesn't get every package of cookies he wanted or the sugar coated breakfast cerial he wanted, so now, in line to check out, he's screaming his displeasure.

There's nothing to refute- like the brat in the grocery cart, all you can do is look on and feel sorry for his parents... and thank God he's not your kid.

T1loady · « **Reply #49 on:** November 03, 2003, 10:49:21 AM »

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Originally posted by Angus
Sorry to jump into a silly argument like that, but getting a little back to the thread topic, these are bad news indeed. Wouldn't it make sense to escort Chinooks that are loaded with troops? With a combat Helicopter I mean. It would not stop a missilie hitting for sure, but perhaps there would not be a second one. Not to mention the mental effect, - not so pleasent having an angry Apache hunting you is it?

The CH-47 Chinook is armed. It has defensive wepons mounted on each side and on the ramp. These guns are maned by crew cheifs and gunners. Generally these weapons are old modded M-60's but several units are switching over to the M-240 & .50cal. Some "****hooks" are even armed with the 7.62mm mini gun. Having another attack helo escort a flight of 47's is not practical nor is it feasable. There are FAR Fewer attack helo's in a theather than attack choppers. Using the tactics taught during training "is supposed" to make the chances for getting hit far less. Now just think of the number of helo's and aircraft in the Iraq AOR. The number is still in the 100's. The use of night, terrain, and technology is the only protection that many of YOUR combat crew members have. Some missiles are going to hit you now matter what you do. Nothing will provide 100% protection. Angus I hope I answered you question.

lord dolf vader · « **Reply #50 on:** November 03, 2003, 12:07:17 PM »

didnt see a damn thing wrong with what the kid posted.

you guys attack anything that dosent totaly agree with you.

how about this BLIND PATRIOTISM IS CRAP

met damn few in the military that had it, none that i liked. seems like everybodys a hero now that their out. smells bad to me.
to act that way is to belittle the thing. you can do it with your politics but not my military, it is not the realm of neocon repubs cemetarys are full of liberal dems. you own george bush not my grandaddys honor.

calling fire on your own position lol. im still laughin at you .

miko2d · « **Reply #51 on:** November 03, 2003, 12:45:18 PM »

If that was really and SA-7 variant - which was the ubiqtous in the Iraqi armed forces - than it has a pretty low ceiling (~12,000 feet). Was there any particular reason for the transport helicopter to fly low over the hostile territory rather than gain max altitude over the secured area and proceed in safety?

Also, shouldn't just two missiles both launched from behind be detected by an observer and counteracted by flares and other measures?

miko

Furious · « **Reply #52 on:** November 03, 2003, 01:03:00 PM »

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Originally posted by mrblack
The USA needs to find out who the rags are getting theses weapons from!
then they need to go kick the watermelon out of that rathole country...

you gonna kick the watermelon outa russia, china, france and u.s.?

miko2d · « **Reply #53 on:** November 03, 2003, 01:05:28 PM »

SA 7 was the standard armament of the Iraqi army. They had warehouses full of them.

miko

_Schadenfreude_ · « **Reply #54 on:** November 03, 2003, 01:14:13 PM »

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Originally posted by mrblack
The USA needs to find out who the rags are getting theses weapons from!
then they need to go kick the watermelon out of that rathole country.

We need to make it too painful for these bastardos to do buisness with anybody in Iraq.
Man we need to put the fear of GOD in there arse:mad:

I am getting so sick and tierd of good American diying for theses
Chitsucking scumbbags .
Scew em all lets come home let em sleep in the cold and eat camel watermelon for all i care:mad:

er duh you moron...the weapons come from massive Iraqui arm dumps that you stupid idiots didn't bother to guard because you let that moron Rumsfeldt force the army to use too little resources to do a job that required another 150,000 men!

God I hate stupid civilians with big mouths even more than I hate politicians!!

Oh and offering 500 dollars reward for a weapon that is worth 5000 on the black market is not the brightest thing I've ever seen either.

miko2d · « **Reply #55 on:** November 03, 2003, 01:18:16 PM »

Actually, US was the major supplier of the russian-made SA-7 missiles to the radical muslim fundamantalists when Al-Qaeda were our friends.

And where would we get those 150,000 men? It's one thiing when regular army grunts get blown up. It's another thing altogether when family men from Reserve or National Guard get killed by the dozen.

miko

Scootter · « **Reply #56 on:** November 03, 2003, 02:44:35 PM »

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Originally posted by miko2d
Actually, US was the major supplier of the russian-made SA-7 missiles to the radical muslim fundamantalists when Al-Qaeda were our friends.

And where would we get those 150,000 men? It's one thiing when regular army grunts get blown up. It's another thing altogether when family men from Reserve or National Guard get killed by the dozen.

miko

Just how does the US become a major supplier of Russian made missiles. The US was providing Stinger and Rockeye MANPAD's to Afghan rebels to use against USSR gunships. They would not really be providing SA-7's.

To get to 12000 ft would take a LONG time and a LONG distance from the point of take off if you were heavy. I don’t think they provide O2 to the back of an unpressurized troop helicopter anyway. I think the slant range of a MANPAD would be about 2.5 miles to an aircraft at 5000 ft agl (a lot of area to cover).

The fact that many survived tells me that both did not hit (the C-hook is a twin engine) and there is little a slow h-copter can do to evade a missile, flares tho not perfect may have been tried without sucess.

mrblack · « **Reply #57 on:** November 03, 2003, 02:55:53 PM »

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Originally posted by _Schadenfreude_
er duh you moron...the weapons come from massive Iraqui arm dumps that you stupid idiots didn't bother to guard because you let that moron Rumsfeldt force the army to use too little resources to do a job that required another 150,000 men!

God I hate stupid civilians with big mouths even more than I hate politicians!!

Oh and offering 500 dollars reward for a weapon that is worth 5000 on the black market is not the brightest thing I've ever seen either.

Watch your mouth you silly little english man.
Or I will have to visit our 52snd state and teach you a lesson.LOL
I am retired Army did my time so don't ever ****ing call me a civilian.
And mr expert you for a fact know where that weapon came from?
Maybe it came from Russia?
The fact is you know nothing more than the rest of use you silly bastardo.

miko2d · « **Reply #58 on:** November 03, 2003, 03:37:36 PM »

Scootter: Just how does the US become a major supplier of Russian made missiles. The US was providing Stinger and Rockeye MANPAD's to Afghan rebels to use against USSR gunships. They would not really be providing SA-7's.

They really did provide a whole sh#tload of Soviet-made SA-7 - actually Strela ("Arrow") 2 - missiles to the mujaheddin.
After it's introduction in the 1960s, Soviets sold it in thousands to practically anyone - including edyptians, various african countries, etc.

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According to a report by the Federation of American Scientists, during the 1980s, in an effort to topple the Soviet-backed government of Afghanistan, the U.S. government provided mujahideen with Soviet-made SA-7s.

Also, Chinook with a three dozen troops is hardly "heavy".

miko

MJHerman · « **Reply #59 on:** November 03, 2003, 03:56:38 PM »

If I recall correctly, and it has been some time since my army days, SA-7s are not "all aspect". I seem to recall that they need to see the heat source before they will track, which means that most sucessful shots need to be from the rear quarter. If so, the Chinook crew may not have seen them coming or had a chance to react.

Credit goes to the crew for bringing the bird down with any survivors at all.