reccomended book by the greatest pilot of WW2

[Boroda]

Germans had four great fairy-tale writers: Rudel, Hartmann and Grimm brothers.

If that guy was the one who indeed hit battleship Marat - I have to take off my hat for him. But if you look closely at Soviet data, you'll see that with his 500+ tanks blown up he is responsible for almost all Soviet tank losses from air attacks.

I also enjoyed a story about how he swimmed across Dniestr river. Not speaking about 8 (!!!) 37mm shells that hit his 87 in one flight.

Another "blonde knight" of dr. Goebbels's propaganda, adored so much in the West for fighting "asian hordes of Jewish bolsheviks".

It's even worse then Tolliver/Constable "historical work" about Hartmann.

[Boroda]

Originally posted by Crowwe
I always wondered what would have happened if the war continued in 1945, with Germany fighting for the Allies against Communism.

I'd imagine that the supply lines would be stretched so thin it would be be a quagmire, intermingled with Atom bombs on strategic Russian targets.

Whole thought is depressing, but interesting.

We have a national bestseller in Russia, book by Sergey Anisimov called "Variant Bis". It describes the war between "allies" plus Germans and Soviet Army.

In Anisimov's world USSR didn't have such a horrible 1941, Leningrad was not sieged and Stalingrad didn't happen. In Summer, 44, Soviet Army captures Koenigsberg and keeps on moving through Southern shore of Baltic sea, finally liberating Denmark. The oceanic task force consisting of battleship "Sovetskiy Soyuz", battlecruiser "Kronstadt" and light CV "Chapayev" breaks through Baltic straits when the American bombing of Soviet motorized convoy in Yugoslavia on Nov. 7th 1944 (BTW, a historical fact) becomes a "casus belli" for open hostilities between "allies" and Soviet Army. The war ends with "allies" getting a small part of Germany as "occupational zone", most of the Germany remains under Soviet control, Denmark keeps it's independance like Austria.

The main idea is that by 1990s we have the same situation as in our world. USSR broke apart, Europe hosts American troops, etc... The heroism on both sides, millions of lives lost are all for nothing.

http://www.ozon.ru/context/detail/id/1479245/

It's much better then any Tom Clancey's books. Unfortunately, it will never be translated into English.

[vorticon]

boroda...even if he was lying about his kills...all pilots did it (how did you think those bull**** stories about destroying a panzer by bouncing .50s off the ground got started) and as i remember he didnt get hit by 8 37mm shells...i think it was only a direct hit by 1...of course his story about having a tree through his wing and returning safely is most likely complete bull****...


still a good book and a damn good pilot worthy of respect (and if hes the person he describes himself as in stuka pilot completly worthy of respect as a person not just a pilot)

[Westy]

" pilot worthy of respect"

 His "tally" warrants the raising of an eyebrow, no more.

 I refuse to extend my respect or admiration to someone who so eagerly used his skills to support such an evil government and "cause."

[Angus]

Wasn't it Gunther Rall who had to spend some prison time with Rudel afterthe war. Well, Rall said he was mad!
To pick out the greatest hero of WW2 aviation is tough. Mölders is a good candidate, so is Douglas Bader, and so many many more.
BTW, regarding chute killing, a former German Wing commander (now a hobby historian) told me an interesting fact.
German Pilots parachuting could expect to be shot by either Red army or US aircraft, but very rarely by the RAF. However, that did occur, but a close study on those matters lead to the stunning fact that in those cases the Pilot was almost always from Poland!
Well,I guess their blood was boiling, and they had a reason.

[Gadfly]

In war, I'm killing every one of the enemy I can, I don't give a rats bellybutton if his is in a chute, laying on the ground or shooting at me.  War=kill them or they kill you.

[ramzey]

Originally posted by Angus

BTW, regarding chute killing, a former German Wing commander (now a hobby historian) told me an interesting fact.
German Pilots parachuting could expect to be shot by either Red army or US aircraft, but very rarely by the RAF. However, that did occur, but a close study on those matters lead to the stunning fact that in those cases the Pilot was almost always from Poland!
Well,I guess their blood was boiling, and they had a reason.

gues who start it on sept 39 ;-)

Boroda,
Grimm brothers was not Dutch?

[Shuckins]

There was a time when I was fascinated by accounts of the air war as seen through the eyes of Luftwaffe pilots.  Their "exploits" do, indeed, make fascinating reading.

If Rudel actually did fight through the entire war on the Russian front, in a Stuka, and wasn't killed then he is the luckiest sob who ever lived.  If you take his kill claims at face value, you have to believe that he wiped out enough Soviet tanks to equip an entire armored division.  I've heard better lies told by old farts sitting around the fire at deer camp.

I am no longer gullible enough to believe all that guff.

I wonder how many of these "supermen" attacked to the west while on the eastern front.

Shuckins

[-tronski-]

Originally posted by Shuckins

I wonder how many of these "supermen" attacked to the west while on the eastern front.

Shuckins

huh?

On topic...

I mean you can't really base your respect someone who fought for the germans based on some type of Nazi scale...Galland was ok because he was somehow more likeable and less nazi loving even when he was killing RAF pilots, but somehow Rudel wasn't cause he really (and openly) believed in the national socialist cause and hated the communists he killed?

Rudel served his country and for that I would hardly despise him...as for being a Nazi, well plenty of soldiers were fighting for plenty of causes....
Rommel was a fan of Hitler till late into his career but that doesn't tarnish his reputation.

 Tronsky