Author Topic: I was listening to "consevative" radio...  (Read 2391 times)

Offline kappa

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I was listening to "consevative" radio...
« Reply #45 on: November 24, 2003, 10:19:49 AM »
Rude wrote:
You're not too bright....you speak as if millions of Americans are buying into gold and selling out of other investments....that is not the case....the ad you heard is not about our economy, but rather about the pursuit of the almighty dollar....their brokering gold.



Sorry dude, I dont read his post like this. He is stating how some radio host say one thing but their sponsers say another. Thats all.

Miko's post, if nothing else, are another look into the life we have here in america. There are so many.

What bothers me are all the Americans here who would rather call him a communist, tell him to go back home, argue his post out of context, or disspell his writing just because they are american and obviously know better. America, if nothing else, is known world-wide for it's history book history. It is just in america, we only have one history book written.

Funny to me how all the not-so-liberal posters here twist almost everthing he says. It boils down to, Soviet propaganda machine, propaganda and brainwashing, change his bbs handle to chicken little, and the likes.

Marlet even makes a post in the hope of downing Miko that was totally out of context to miko's first post. One could only hope Marlet realizes this.

Just seems to me, myself included, that we could all read with a more open mind. You know, argue the legitament points actually made.

k
AoM
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Offline muckmaw

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« Reply #46 on: November 24, 2003, 10:27:28 AM »
I'd like to know, Miko, what it is you do that allows you so much time to put such effort and thought into your posts.

Just curious.

Offline Boroda

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« Reply #47 on: November 24, 2003, 10:32:04 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Martlet
See, that's the beauty of propaganda.  It doesn't have to be inelligent, it just has to be what the person wants to believe.  You'd like to believe the US is a horrible place with incredibly stupid and abusive citizens.  Therefore, I'd never succeed in making you believe the truth.  miko plays right into your dreams.


Well, I personally know that US isn't a "horrible place with incredibly stupid and abusive citizens".

The problem is that there is no black and white. It isn't a "country of yellow devil" and a society of exploitation as we have been told by our clumsy Soviet propaganda, neither it is a "paradise on Earth" like we were told since late 80s.

I am not satisfied with our own Russian government, and I see no force now that can take the country and do something rational to solve existing problems.

I can hardly understand how an intelligent person can be so absolutely satisfied with his government, and be so extremely confident in the wisdom and good intentions of the rulers as you are. In fact it's what Soviet system tried to achieve. Fortunately - it didn't succeed. And the best indicator to this is that Miko still has his critical attitude to current affairs. The Soviet environment was developing very special attitudes to official propaganda. For example, relatively happy and prospering Yugoslavia didn't have such enormous pressure on individuality, and we see a good example here - Grunherz, who in fact is more "American" then "Americans" born there.

Offline Martlet

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« Reply #48 on: November 24, 2003, 10:59:43 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Boroda

I can hardly understand how an intelligent person can be so absolutely satisfied with his government, and be so extremely confident in the wisdom and good intentions of the rulers as you are. In fact it's what Soviet system tried to achieve. Fortunately - it didn't succeed. And the best indicator to this is that Miko still has his critical attitude to current affairs. The Soviet environment was developing very special attitudes to official propaganda. For example, relatively happy and prospering Yugoslavia didn't have such enormous pressure on individuality, and we see a good example here - Grunherz, who in fact is more "American" then "Americans" born there.


I feel there is a big difference between the "government" and the "politicians".  The government is a body, an idea, a system.  As a whole, I'm satisfied with it.  I think it's the best in the world.  It's the politicians that you have to watch out for.  They steer the government.  I don't know anyone that is completely satisfied with politicians.

The problem is the people that are blinded by hatred.  You find them in both parties.  They are the people that hate the "other side" so bad they lobby against every single idea that comes out of that camp.  It doesn't matter how good it may be.  If they thought of it, it has to be bad.

So it's fine to not be satisfied.  It's healthy.  In many ways it's necessary.  The problem is the many people that concentrate on being UNsatisfied.

Offline AKIron

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I was listening to "consevative" radio...
« Reply #49 on: November 24, 2003, 12:07:49 PM »
I think Miko was badly burned by communism as were many millions in the USSR. A little socialism is not an evil thing if it's kept in check. Public roads, utilities, police, military, social security for the elderly, welfare for the destitute, all provided for the common good by joint contribution does not make us a communist or even socialist state. Letting corporations run wild with no responsibility to the common good would be truly foolish.

Keeping everything in balance is a tricky thing and does require constant effort and diligence.
Here we put salt on Margaritas, not sidewalks.

Offline ravells

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I was listening to "consevative" radio...
« Reply #50 on: November 24, 2003, 12:26:12 PM »
That is one of the most intelligent posts I have seen here in a while.

Ravs

Offline AKIron

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« Reply #51 on: November 24, 2003, 12:44:10 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by GScholz
Actually that's pretty socialistic. Add schools and healthcare and you've got a Social Democracy like my country.


I didn't leave those two out by accident. There are varying degrees of socialism. I guess it's rather arbitrary and relative to label a country socialistic.
Here we put salt on Margaritas, not sidewalks.

Offline Rude

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« Reply #52 on: November 24, 2003, 12:51:16 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by kappa
Rude wrote:
You're not too bright....you speak as if millions of Americans are buying into gold and selling out of other investments....that is not the case....the ad you heard is not about our economy, but rather about the pursuit of the almighty dollar....their brokering gold.



Sorry dude, I dont read his post like this. He is stating how some radio host say one thing but their sponsers say another. Thats all.

Miko's post, if nothing else, are another look into the life we have here in america. There are so many.

What bothers me are all the Americans here who would rather call him a communist, tell him to go back home, argue his post out of context, or disspell his writing just because they are american and obviously know better. America, if nothing else, is known world-wide for it's history book history. It is just in america, we only have one history book written.

Funny to me how all the not-so-liberal posters here twist almost everthing he says. It boils down to, Soviet propaganda machine, propaganda and brainwashing, change his bbs handle to chicken little, and the likes.

Marlet even makes a post in the hope of downing Miko that was totally out of context to miko's first post. One could only hope Marlet realizes this.

Just seems to me, myself included, that we could all read with a more open mind. You know, argue the legitament points actually made.

k
AoM


My mistake....I took all the additional remarks after his opening post as meaning something entirely different than pointing out an irony.

Of course, being a neo-con, I tend to do that kind of thing often....hard for me to warm up to anyone who doesn't think, sleep and eat as I do.

Offline AKIron

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« Reply #53 on: November 24, 2003, 12:57:19 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by ravells
That is one of the most intelligent posts I have seen here in a while.

Ravs


If you were referring to my post, thanks. I have my weak moments. ;)
Here we put salt on Margaritas, not sidewalks.

Offline ravells

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I was listening to "consevative" radio...
« Reply #54 on: November 24, 2003, 02:27:54 PM »
I was...

May you be weak more often :)

Ravs

Offline mietla

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« Reply #55 on: November 24, 2003, 02:55:14 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by AKIron
I think Miko was badly burned by communism as were many millions in the USSR. A little socialism is not an evil thing if it's kept in check. Public roads, utilities, police, military, social security for the elderly, welfare for the destitute, all provided for the common good by joint contribution does not make us a communist or even socialist state. Letting corporations run wild with no responsibility to the common good would be truly foolish.

Keeping everything in balance is a tricky thing and does require constant effort and diligence.


Miko is right. Do you really think that you can sustain "just a little" socialism? You can't. It's just a matter of time when we'll turn good old USA into a communist sewer.

When was last time you saw the government giving up power, abolishing controls over the private sector or citizens?

Offline Hooligan

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« Reply #56 on: November 24, 2003, 02:58:02 PM »
Quote

I think Miko was badly burned by communism as were many millions in the USSR. A little socialism is not an evil thing if it's kept in check. Public roads, utilities, police, military, social security for the elderly, welfare for the destitute, all provided for the common good by joint contribution does not make us a communist or even socialist state. Letting corporations run wild with no responsibility to the common good would be truly foolish.

Keeping everything in balance is a tricky thing and does require constant effort and diligence.


Although we have "a little socialism" I agree that the US is a pretty nice place to live.  I can't agree with the rest of your statement for a variety of reasons:  First of all, we don't know what our society would be like without some of those elements of socialism removed.  We've never experienced what the US would be like without welfare, public utilities and social security.  It might in fact be much nicer.  Just for example, as messed up as our public school systems are, they seem an excellent candidate for privatization.  As nice as our country is, fixing this particular government mess would undoubtedly make it better.  We are like somebody who has had a minor illness their entire life.  We may feel pretty good (by our standards), but we may also not know how it feels to be well.  From what I've seen, the more socialistic a country is the less desirable it is as a place to live.

Also, since when are such things as the military, police and the courts socialistic?  Advocating minimalist government doesn't mean advocating anarchy.  Our founding fathers were very strong advocates of minimalist and decentralized government and they still saw the need for police, a military and a court system.  And what exactly do you mean by letting corporations (or individuals for that matter) run wild?  As long as an individual or corporation doesn't harm somebody else or their property I'm for letting them run as wild as they want.

Hooligan

Offline AKIron

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« Reply #57 on: November 24, 2003, 03:05:44 PM »
I certainly don't think we need more socialism than we already have and I want to see less. To say we need none and trust the benevolence of those ruling from the pinacle of corporate America is a vision out of science fiction, "Roller Ball" comes to mind.
Here we put salt on Margaritas, not sidewalks.

Offline AKIron

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« Reply #58 on: November 24, 2003, 03:16:09 PM »
It's all a matter of degree and the word Socialism has many meanings. I'm using it to describe the collective sharing of resources redistributed as needed by the government. Why wouldn't this include public roads, utilities, police, military, schools, etc.... Not everyone pays the same amount or according to their use but rather according to their position (income) in society.
Here we put salt on Margaritas, not sidewalks.

Offline Rude

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« Reply #59 on: November 24, 2003, 04:20:47 PM »
The day this country entertains socialism, is the day I move back to Texas.:)