Author Topic: Initial impression: it stinks  (Read 4737 times)

Offline straffo

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Initial impression: it stinks
« Reply #15 on: December 06, 2003, 03:44:31 PM »
Zmeg ,what about wasting a bit of your time prooving your position ?

Offline ergRTC

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Initial impression: it stinks
« Reply #16 on: December 06, 2003, 05:32:04 PM »
he brings up a good point.  Its not a matter of I want difficult, I just want real.

I can do carrier ops with a 163.

And what wont make taking off difficult?  pulling gs while taking off?  

Since I do not fly, and have no chance at flying these birds ever, I have to gauge how real the characteristics are by discriptions of things like taking off and landing.  

There was a wonderful interview with a guy who got a chance to fly a p40.  Landing was incredibly difficult.  I wish I could remember who it was, may be that guy that died in the f4u accident last year when the engine quite.

Offline Ecliptik

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Initial impression: it stinks
« Reply #17 on: December 06, 2003, 11:44:39 PM »
Quote
As it stands now, the need to gradually increase power as
speed slowly increases will mean that once the enema manage
to get a few A/C over your field there will be little or no
chance that anyone will be able to get aloft. You'll then be
left with the only alternatives...up from a field farther away
and spend more time flying to a fight...or log. I'd chose the
latter.


It's a flight sim.  Sometimes you have to fly.  Relax.

Offline ramzey

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Re: Initial impression: it stinks
« Reply #18 on: December 07, 2003, 02:12:35 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by qts
I've played Beta 5 for approx 1 hour and my initial impression is that Beta 5 stinks.



The clipboard UI has GOT to be improved. In the hangar it almost covers everything when at a usable size. It's very hard to select the fuel.



it was my first impresion too, but wait! why dont u hide clipboard? "esc" or you was too lazzy to thinkabout it? ;-)

Quote
Originally posted by qts

Very difficult to take off in many aircraft..


spit 5 take off without problem, after 1 failed t/o i was able to start without problems/ Both ponys and 190 , 109 without any problems . Practice make you master ;-)

Quote
Originally posted by qts

Zoom doesn't work but causes screen flashing.

same here, i think its temporary

Quote
Originally posted by qts
Can't raise or lower flaps in assorted aircraft.


i can say i was able to lower them too easy

Quote
Originally posted by qts

Auto-takeoff doesn't work.


its work , just dont touch stick

Quote
Originally posted by qts

Mouseview won't turn off and is bl**dy annoying when the clipboard is up. Can it be automatically disabled when the clipboard is up?


Just disable it in setup, if  you not like it


Quote
Originally posted by qts

The map is fuzzy.

I was switching between views and once got a front view with no cockpit. I was unable to repeat this.

Guys, please invest some time in QA. I'm confident you'll do better next time.


no comments
« Last Edit: December 07, 2003, 02:14:42 AM by ramzey »

Offline Easyscor

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Re: Initial impression: it stinks
« Reply #19 on: December 07, 2003, 02:35:23 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by qts
Mouseview won't turn off and is bl**dy annoying when the clipboard is up. Can it be automatically disabled when the clipboard is up?
Shift+M toggles mouse view on/off.
Easy in-game again.
Since Tour 19 - 2001

Offline straffo

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Initial impression: it stinks
« Reply #20 on: December 07, 2003, 06:41:09 AM »
I would like to see a documented source of this : Landing and Take off are difficult.

It's dangerous ?  
=>certainly.

It's difficult ?
=>no ,respect the procedure ,don't act stupid and the plane will be airborne fast.

Zmeg as you want me to learn to fly what kind of plane do you suggest ?
I think the kind you're flying currently will be good for me ...
Don't you think ?

Offline _Schadenfreude_

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Initial impression: it stinks
« Reply #21 on: December 07, 2003, 07:55:44 AM »
Found the graphics to be very poor - I expected a step up from AH but quite frankly they should have just developed 30 or more planes rather than what they've got for Ah2 - it looks very dated compared to what else is out there.

Offline Sikboy

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Re: Initial impression: it stinks
« Reply #22 on: December 07, 2003, 08:28:36 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by qts
Guys, please invest some time in QA. I'm confident you'll do better next time. [/B]


I thought QA was one of the functions of Beta (although I'm not even sure the term "QA" can even be applied to an unfinished product.

-Sik
You: Blah Blah Blah
Me: Meh, whatever.

Offline ergRTC

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Initial impression: it stinks
« Reply #23 on: December 07, 2003, 10:27:59 AM »
Straffo, I have been looking for that interview with the warbirds pilot flying the p40, but cant find it anyway.  I think he died in a p38 crash.

I also believe our ideas of difficult and easy may be a little misunderstood.  When I say difficult, I mean that somebody that flies zeros all year, jumps into a p40 for the first time, or a 109g10, will be challenged to get the thing in the air safely.  Not that somebody who flies a 109g10 all the time will still find taking off a nightmare.  Not as easy as a zero of course, just more challenging.

Offline ergRTC

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Initial impression: it stinks
« Reply #24 on: December 07, 2003, 10:46:22 AM »
Here are a couple of examples of what I mean by difficult...   This is from an interview with a russian pilot.
http://airforce.users.ru/lend-lease/english/articles/golodnikov/part1.htm

n.g.

Later it was revealed that the Englishman was a certain Major Rook and that he spoke excellent Russian. He had completed our Kachinsk Aviation School. But he spoke English during the entire training period and Russian only at the farewell banquet. At the banquet he said, “I could not [speak Russian] because I am an offical and it was forbidden.” One of our squadron commanders, Kovalenko, studied with him at aviation school. No matter how much Kovalenko tried to coax him:” Hey, why are you evading, you understand everything”, but still failed to convince him to speak [Russian].  

This Rook fellow flew the I-16 one time, and climbed out drenched in sweat. “Let the Russians fly this airplane!”

Altogether we spent about five days in the transition training. We learned the general layout: “There is the engine, here is where we top off the fuel tank, there the oil” and so on. We did not go particularly deep into the airplane’s design. We talked, we sat in the cockpit, we taxied a couple of times, and then flew the airplane. I made three flights, that’s all, and I was transitioned. Like they told us, “You want to live—take a seat.” Safonov flew first. He sat in the cockpit four hours familiarizing himself with the layout and then flew the airplane. The rest of us followed him.

A. S. Was there any kind of special selection for transition?

N. G. No. We were trained by squadron.

A. S. Nikolay Gerasimovich, what was your first impression of the Hurricane?

N. G. My first impression was “Hunchback!” Such a “hunchback” cannot be a good fighter. Subsequently my first impression did not change. I was particularly alarmed by the wings. They were so thick. The wings on the Hurricane were thicker than on the Pe-2.

A. S. Was the Hurricane easier to control than the I-16?

N. G. Yes, it was simpler. I did not experience any difficulties in learning the airplane or how to fly it.

.......
or this is neat too

Let me say something else about the air frame. The Hurricane had a very light tail. We were based on sandy, insufficiently packed airfields. It was mandatory that a technician or mechanic sit on the tail when we were taxiing to keep it on the ground. We even flew with a technician sitting on the tail. We had a technician named Rudenko who flew around in a circle sitting on the tail. He sat with his back forward and was unable to jump off because his hands got caught in the skin of the vertical stabilizer. He sat there until the pilot landed the aircraft. There were cases when men fell off the tail and died.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2003, 11:04:36 AM by ergRTC »

Offline Zanth

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Re: Initial impression: it stinks
« Reply #25 on: December 07, 2003, 11:36:36 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by qts
The clipboard UI has GOT to be improved. In the hangar it almost covers everything when at a usable size. It's very hard to select the fuel.


Clipboard can be made larger and smaller by clicking on the +/- tab at top.  Clipboard can also be minimized while you make selections.

(Also you can right click on clipboard to access more options)



Quote
Very difficult to take off in many aircraft.

Zoom doesn't work but causes screen flashing.
Can't raise or lower flaps in assorted aircraft.
Auto-takeoff doesn't work.


Takeoff and landing is harder, but they told us this ahead of time.

Spit 9 has a bug, but if you map keys or buttons for Left and Right Wheel brakes  you soon learn to steer with brakes and Takeoff becomes much easier.

Quote
When firing at buildings, I get hit sprites on farmhouses but nothing when attacking buildings on enemy airfields and no damage seems to be taken in either case.


Some buildings do appear to be undamageable

Quote
Mouseview won't turn off and is bl**dy annoying when the clipboard is up. Can it be automatically disabled when the clipboard is up?


Mouse view I don't like either and shouldnt be on by default.   You can disable it in Setup/Preferences/View options (or somethign like that)  Uncheck Mouse Look box


Quote
In the cockpit, parts of the cockpit e.g. the frame, overlay the clipboard.

The map is fuzzy.

I was switching between views and once got a front view with no cockpit. I was unable to repeat this.

Guys, please invest some time in QA. I'm confident you'll do better next time.


They are spending time in QA and we are it :)

Offline OLtos

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it stinks
« Reply #26 on: December 07, 2003, 12:03:35 PM »
Well,

I guess you could phrase the opinion in a nicer way.  But actually, yeah it does pretty much stink.   Now I would, and have, phrased my opinion of this version a little nicer than that, but gee whiz, if HiTech wanted "nice" he should not expose this "beta" version to a critical public testing session.  Not everyone in this world is "nice".  In fact many of your more honest and forthright individuals are not.  Doesn't make their assessments any less valuable.

OK, so it doesn't really stink.  Well, it isn't at all ready to be called a beta version either.  One should remember that HiTech gets is Software QA for free by doing these so called "beta" runs.  Otherwise he would have to hire a dozen of us and pay us money for this work.  But, as a Software Quality Assurance engineer I can tell you up front that calling this version a beta quality release is a joke.  This new flight engine is mostly unplayable to this tester.   And you can read unplayable as stinky if you want to. Depending on my mood I would.

Offline straffo

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Initial impression: it stinks
« Reply #27 on: December 07, 2003, 02:45:04 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by ergRTC
I also believe our ideas of difficult and easy may be a little misunderstood.  When I say difficult, I mean that somebody that flies zeros all year, jumps into a p40 for the first time, or a 109g10, will be challenged to get the thing in the air safely.  Not that somebody who flies a 109g10 all the time will still find taking off a nightmare.  Not as easy as a zero of course, just more challenging.


I agree 100 %.

In fact I've done teh experience some 3 weeks ago , I invited for the WE one of my old friend.
As you can guess we spoke about games and gaming ,he is a great OPF addict (I don't ,it is a bit too close to the ground for my own taste ;))

I tried OPF online and ended killed in all possible situations he was laughing like a mad of my incompetence (btw I was lucky enought to kill 3 guys...)

But it was soon is turn to try my game ...
I had to take off for him (he was killed 3 time in a row in a zeke :rolleyes: )

That's why I'm contradicting you.
Even curently it's difficult ,but you and I are so experienced that we can have a pee when taking off
(btw I'm using auto-take off cause I'm a lazy bastard :))

Offline Zanth

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Initial impression: it stinks
« Reply #28 on: December 07, 2003, 05:33:51 PM »
They will of course have to make a better auto take-off or new players are going to be a hard sell.  We may be getting some new players in BETA but I don't think many.

However, I do think they let people get the idea before release that the BETA was going to be a more finished product _ I was one of em.   NOw that I know what we are dealing with I do like the idea of being involved in early stages, as long as that participation is indeed useful to them.

Overall (and over looking the obvious unfinsihed things) the fighting is much more visually appealing - you get to appreciate the art of your opponents plane much more in this new version.  The combat has a more up close and personal feel which I find more immersive.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2003, 05:39:37 PM by Zanth »

Offline mars01

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Initial impression: it stinks
« Reply #29 on: December 08, 2003, 10:02:45 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by:  straffo
Id like to see a documented source of this : Landing and Take off are difficult.  

It's difficult ?
=>no ,respect the procedure ,don't act stupid and the plane will be airborne fast.



The procedure would be apply throttle slowly, while keeping the plane on the centerline with rudder, and don’t apply full throttle till the tail is off the ground.

Because you assume you know the procedure you think something is wrong.  It's obvious by your post you don't know the procedure.

Proof you ask for - I have a friend who owns a 250 HP tri-gear bonanza.  When he applies full throttle the plane pulls very hard to the left and strait for the grass on the side of the runway and that is only 250 horses.  Imagine what it must have been like with the 1k or 2k plus HP that most of the WWII planes had and tail wheel.  He applies adequate power to get the thing accelerating down the runway and adds power gradually with full power in just before takeoff speed.

I was in a 150 HP Cessna 152 tail dragger.  That thing would spin around in a second given the appropriate throttle and rudder input.  Was friggin awesome. something that doesn’t happen in AHI, which does in AHII B5.


Quote
Originally posted by OLtos
OK, so it doesn't really stink. Well, it isn't at all ready to be called a beta version either. One should remember that HiTech gets is Software QA for free by doing these so called "beta" runs. Otherwise he would have to hire a dozen of us and pay us money for this work.


Are you kidding me - By not hiring people to beta test, they are affectively keeping the costs down, not having to charge more money to us the end users.  They are also able to give us a sneak peak at what is coming.  Something every one wanted.



Quote
Originally posted by OLtos
But, as a Software Quality Assurance engineer I can tell you up front that calling this version a beta quality release is a joke. This new flight engine is mostly unplayable to this tester. And you can read unplayable as stinky if you want to. Depending on my mood I would.


A "Software Quality Assurance engineer"  Why would you show your ignorance like this.  This is a beta, one that is functional and flyable by people who know how to fly.  Obviously you can't do either.  Is it perfect no, but then that is what beta is all about.  Slapshot put it correctly, maybe you should re-read his post.  As a 10 year software Architect/Developer I pitty the development team you work for.  The first rule for a QA person is know what you are testing.  You obviously have no clue what a plane is actually like to fly in real life, but you profess to know how crappy the beta is, again pretty ignorant.  I'm sure your a nice guy and all but your post shows little merit.

 Keep trying.

As for keeping this thing easy for the noob, well what next turn off stalls and collisions.   cmon.  If they really want to learn/experience what it was like to fly WWII circa planes well they have to put in the work.  If not they can go play Crimson Skies, that piece o crap is a noob paradise.