Author Topic: Open Letter To HTC  (Read 3257 times)

Offline MwKAZ

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« Reply #15 on: December 26, 2003, 08:46:16 PM »
I definitely understand upgrades required as time goes on.  But does any know if there will be options to turn off some of the eye candy?  I tend to live in an area where there is know option but one source of ISP with only dialup.  I know there's others in the same position as me and it would be nice to be able to turn off some of it to aid in frame rates.

Don't remember anything being mentioned about whether items can be turned off or toned done.  Would anyone happen to know?

Thx

Offline Arlo

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« Reply #16 on: December 26, 2003, 09:18:46 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by JustJim
anyone still playing on a 466 with 16 mb ram and 4 mb video ?

I thought not upgrading is a part of the PC evolution, you wanna play the cool stuff ya gotta get cooler stuff.

I hate it as well but it's not only this game  requiring better PC's

with every new game there is a new generation of PC's needed to play them, its a conspiracy I tell ya.


Ahhh .... but there you're just plain wrong. You've bought into the "picture perfect neccessity" schlock lock stock and barrel. Tell, me .... does the image on your screen need to be digital quality in every detail for you to attain immersion? If so you must have little, if any, imagination. And truly it'll never be enough until you manage to find a way to teleport back in time and get yourself into one of the service flight schools.

The "gotta have my eye candy" crowd is basically a crowd of duped individuals.

AH ... as is ... has the engine and capability to be much more than it is already. It doesn't take revamping the graphics and causing the entire community to double their sys specs. And three or four years later doing it again. People will naturally upgrade their systems as their previous ones wear out. We don't need a shove to do that.

Instead .... devote the resources to modeling more aircraft. Cover all the theaters of combat more thoroughly. Add some more historical terrain and do what it takes to address whatever glitches arise. Tweak the user interface.

Don't jump on the snowballing software/hardware vicious circle if you don't have to and your community will tend to be more stable in the long-run.

You doubt? Do some checking around. See how many players of various games ... who were perfectly happy with those games ... soon found themselves either forced to move on or spent the money to upgrade time and again for what, in their opinion, was an too little improvement to warrant the constant upgrades. See how many who WERE eye-candy freaks became either disillusioned by it all or were insatiable in their unrealistic goals and moved on to something else they thought fulfilled them ... and moved on again.

That being said, many of us are upgrading to keep up with AH based on our current enjoyment of it. But it's still to be seen if the changes will both benefit the game and the community to such an extent as to enhance it's potential or if putting the cart before the horse will prove a liability.

Hell ... just look at the disappointment some express already at some of the graphics in the beta? I think they're fine. I think it was already fine. But those who are so overcome by their desire for a "picture perfect" world will probably never be happy until they're in the "matrix." Then they'll die of thirst there and we'll be free of them forever. ;)

Sure .... two or three years of all programming resources being devoted to rivets, trees and barns may well cause a season or two of "oooohs and ahhhhhs" .... but the same time devoted to giving the players more planes to fly and fixing any problems with the ones we have will keep the game more of a step ahead of it's competitors than the eye candy will. And if other gamey games keep up the pixel polishing trend ... AH will get players from them instead of what some believe to be the opposite trend.
« Last Edit: December 26, 2003, 09:23:13 PM by Arlo »

Offline Urchin

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« Reply #17 on: December 26, 2003, 10:51:11 PM »
Ew.. I agree with Tardlo.  Damn.  Gotta go take a shower, brb.

Offline SFRT - Frenchy

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« Reply #18 on: December 26, 2003, 10:58:25 PM »
I don't agree. I quit AH because I didn't feel any magic flying it. Fighting hordes of LA7s/Spits is somewhat ok, but the graphics look sooooooooooooooooooooo last millenium that I couldn't cope with them anymore.

AH2 is still far from today standards and I fear it will not be enought for me. I enjoy Forgotten Battle, I play over there online only in the coop missions (DAs borre me).

I like the feel of flying in FB, the engine management, the graphics, the details, the gunery.

I have many friends in AH and I had the best time flying it since the beta days, but the dynosaurish look ... ewwww ... I guess it's the end of an era :)
Dat jugs bro.

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Offline artik

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« Reply #19 on: December 26, 2003, 11:25:38 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Flossy
Yep, as I understand it, AH2:Classic will simply be an update to AH1, with all the current arenas, and with the TOD as an extra option following later....  ;)


Sorry Flossy,

Do you mean that AH2 v 2.0 will not have ToD? :eek:

So are we going to get AH1 with new graphics engine only (and FM), without new gameplay feachers?

Will the planeset include all the planes of AH1 in AH 2.0?

Oh........ HTC please do not make the mistake iEN have done....
Artik, 101 "Red" Squadron, Israel

Offline Shiva

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« Reply #20 on: December 26, 2003, 11:28:15 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by MwKAZ
I definitely understand upgrades required as time goes on.  But does any know if there will be options to turn off some of the eye candy?  I tend to live in an area where there is know option but one source of ISP with only dialup.  I know there's others in the same position as me and it would be nice to be able to turn off some of it to aid in frame rates.

Don't remember anything being mentioned about whether items can be turned off or toned done.  Would anyone happen to know?


The 'eye candy' all happens on your end; it doesn't matter how fast your connection is, you'll still have the same rendering that you do now.  All your connection with the host contains are data on the position, ID, and vector of each visible vehicle, and annotations about destroyed ground objects; your FE handles all of the rendering with the data already on your hard drive. If you are having frame-rate problems with the graphic detail, that is a problem with your system, not with your connection.

Offline JustJim

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« Reply #21 on: December 26, 2003, 11:51:07 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by MwKAZ
I definitely understand upgrades required as time goes on.  But does any know if there will be options to turn off some of the eye candy?  I tend to live in an area where there is know option but one source of ISP with only dialup.  I know there's others in the same position as me and it would be nice to be able to turn off some of it to aid in frame rates.

Don't remember anything being mentioned about whether items can be turned off or toned done.  Would anyone happen to know?

Thx


There is the abiity to adjust the video settings as far as quality.



 and Arlo I infact dont really care about the graphics part of the game I tend to like it how it is myself.

although i'm not going to fight natural progression of a game to suit my needs, I have a big thing with damage modeling aka (bullchit shots) that is my hopes for the next generation of AH, we all have out likes and dislikes and as some have mentioned AH graphics will still be somewhat behind what is mainstream today.

but do you see todays mainstream games  with the ability to have 500+ people playing in one arena with a very decent FM all for a 50 mb file ?  no you dont.

for the last 6 months at least alot of people have been asking for an upgraded AH and now its kinda here still in the works mind you but its still here and no matter what the staff at HTC do they will never be able to please all of the people all of the time.

I'm pretty confident that the final version of AH2 will be as wonderful as AH1 is now in quality just improved, as with the introduction of AH1 it took time before it became the game it is today I have no reason to believe that AH2 will be a lesser game than we have now.

I look forward to the released result and to the improvements made following it's release, as I was just a bystander at a friends house with the initial birth of AH, i'm excited to be a part of the second generation and watching it grow.

Offline Arlo

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« Reply #22 on: December 27, 2003, 01:59:30 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by JustJim

although i'm not going to fight natural progression of a game to suit my needs,

but do you see todays mainstream games  with the ability to have 500+ people playing in one arena with a very decent FM all for a 50 mb file ?  no you dont.

for the last 6 months at least alot of people have been asking for an upgraded AH and now its kinda here still in the works mind you but its still here and no matter what the staff at HTC do they will never be able to please all of the people all of the time.
 


But it's not a "natural progression" at all. It's forced digression. If the nature of this game was to eventually present picture perfect screenshots for people to sit back and admire then it would be it's natural progression. If the nature of the game is to be the best online massively multiplayer WWII air combat sim (or game - take your pick) that can be played by a larger cross section of potential internet sim addicts ... then stopping to tweak the picture so we can count the rivits on our planes is actually kind of antithesis to what the primary concern of the programmers and developers SHOULD be.

I'm not trying to fight anything. If I were I would have protested the hell out of AHII's development from day one. I'm just talking common sense. Therefore I'm not gonna be the cheerleader for uneccesary graphic enhancements requiring endless hardware upgrades for no real purpose other than the game revolving around digital quality first person pov interactive movies, either.

Now TOD sounds possibly interesting and more along the lines of at least attempting to enhance game play to provide a more immersive enviroment for us to enjoy. I dunno if it'll work the way I hope it will but it's closer than just polishing pixels. Even then, it'll need more planes and terrains.

I don't want HTC to try to please all of the customers or potential customers all of the time. I want them not to worry so much about the few who cry about how ugly it looks and constant whines over giving it a makeover (that will never subside) when in fact, it's fine as it is. Having a game that can be played by a larger cross-section of the internet community is never a bad thing.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2003, 02:32:30 AM by Arlo »

Offline Arlo

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« Reply #23 on: December 27, 2003, 02:05:09 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by SFRT - Frenchy
I don't agree. I quit AH because I didn't feel any magic flying it. Fighting hordes of LA7s/Spits is somewhat ok, but the graphics look sooooooooooooooooooooo last millenium that I couldn't cope with them anymore.

AH2 is still far from today standards and I fear it will not be enought for me. I enjoy Forgotten Battle, I play over there online only in the coop missions (DAs borre me).

I like the feel of flying in FB, the engine management, the graphics, the details, the gunery.

I have many friends in AH and I had the best time flying it since the beta days, but the dynosaurish look ... ewwww ... I guess it's the end of an era :)


*ShruG*

Have fun in FB. I doubt it will ever make it to mmp status. If AH continues to succumb to trying to make itself look like other games to please the graphically anal minority amongst the flightsim community ... then THAT will be more of a threat to it's future because it shoves actual GAME enhancement to the back burner.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2003, 03:28:11 AM by Arlo »

Offline Urchin

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« Reply #24 on: December 27, 2003, 02:49:18 AM »
Yea, FBs got enough problems with lag and freeze-framing with 16 people in a game... much less 750.  Two different types of game, they can both be fun though.

Offline Arlo

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« Reply #25 on: December 27, 2003, 03:18:41 AM »
Oh ... not saying otherwise. I just don't see it as a threat to AH the way Frenchy apparently does.  

Of course, I'm not against practical graphical enhancements over time. Practical being the key word. I've seen players post that the beta looks terrific and that the screenshots don't really do it justice. I'm forced to take their word for it since I've yet to make the minimal upgrades needed to see for myself.

And sure I'd like my chicken beaked blockhead pilot to look more like a dashing war movie star pilot ... but it's not an obsession of mine. I may even be one of the players that "oooh and ahhh" when I see the skidmarks on the runway or the reflection glinting off the canopy (if that's incorporated) but I don't require either to keep me in the game.

The tree cover ... now THAT's an actual difference that affects the game. And I'd like to see the hangar deck and ready room on the CV. Again, not a critical enhancement but a slightly more immersive player enviroment than just the Air Group Commander's perch on the island.

And hearing about the ship damage being more detailed with individual gun mounts and radar becoming destroyable objects is another GAME enhancement I consider an actual improvement.

So ... I'm not entirely against the new and improved AHII. I just don't see every graphical tweak in it as a neccesity for game survival. And I don't think players that make that a priority represent the majority of the sim community.

Offline Wilbus

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« Reply #26 on: December 27, 2003, 04:03:18 AM »
I asked for it. I asked for improved dammage modelling, gunnery modell, visable dammage etc. I'm probarly not the only one.

As for new planes being added, I THINK HTC said that once AH2 is out the new AH2 system will allow for more rapid development of planes and veihcles but don't take my word for it.

We'll see where it takes us, AH1 is getting outdated in many many ways, the dammage modelling is the most important improvement for me.
« Last Edit: December 27, 2003, 04:06:06 AM by Wilbus »
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Offline Arlo

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« Reply #27 on: December 27, 2003, 04:37:51 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Wilbus
I asked for it. I asked for improved dammage modelling, gunnery modell, visable dammage etc. I'm probarly not the only one.


Which are all GAME enhancements. And being part of AHII makes it a welcome upgrade. But graphic enhancements that depict skidmarks on concrete runways and corrogated metal on the quonset huts or individual rivets on mine or my opponents's plane or makes stenciled warnings in the cockpit and on the fuselage easier to read aren't really game enhancements per say. And if the extra yet uneccessary eyecandy drags down systems that two years ago were considered fairly decent (in some cases "top of the line") without really adding more than some "ooohs and aaahs" the first dozen or so times they're seen (after which they are as taken for granted as the fuzzy portrayals of the pixels that preceeded them) then it's really a waste of HTCs valuable yet limited resources at the possible cost of a chunk of the customer base that was more than satisfied with the current product.

I may be in the running for Ace's High's "King of Run-on Sentences!"
« Last Edit: December 27, 2003, 05:51:59 AM by Arlo »

Offline SFRT - Frenchy

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« Reply #28 on: December 27, 2003, 05:21:38 AM »
I never said FB was a threat to AH, I just said that myself, I stoped playing AH because I enjoy "FB online missions" way more. I tried to fly both, but it's impossible, when I'm in AH I feel like playing an old arcade game. Flame all you want, I play AH since Beta, and even if I don't fly it, I still pay for my account. I'm a supporter of AH, but I'm not blind.
Dat jugs bro.

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Offline Arlo

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« Reply #29 on: December 27, 2003, 05:46:56 AM »
I'm not blind either. Neither are any of the players that still enjoy AH more than any other air combat sim out there. It's graphics aren't "old arcade" by any stretch of the imagination. But opinions vary, I suppose.

So let me ask you ....

Why do you continue to pay for an account you have no intention of using? Why are you supporting a game you've decided is at it's end and has graphics (in your opinion) that are terribly outdated and ruins the game for you? When did you suddenly decide that the game you enjoyed so much had become so ugly to look at that you can't even bring yourself to play it and enjoy it?

Don't tell me when you first played IL2. I've played that game and it's graphic engine isn't that much better. Oh yeah ... you get that neat graphic of your pilot running from your plane and diving on the ground if you crash land. Oh wait! Your instruments get cracked if you take cockpit damage. Heh ... I saw that type of "cutting edge" stuff in boxed sims long ago when old arcade graphics really WERE old arcade.

The skins with the scratched paint detail? The damage detail? Hell, the first can be accomplished in AH as is. The second is supposed to be a part of AHII.

You have the account. Why aren't you flying the beta instead of assuming the graphics that you feel are the be all end all of air combat simming aren't being incorporated into AHII as you type?

But still ... you ARE being graphically anal, you know. Graphic enhancements reached the point of gravy three or four years back. :D