Author Topic: WMD's found in Iraq  (Read 17412 times)

Offline Toad

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WMD's found in Iraq
« Reply #165 on: January 12, 2004, 02:27:57 AM »
Quote
14 November 2001


UN Security Council Resolution 1378 on Afghanistan
UNSC endorses plan for interim Afghan Administration

United Nations - The UN Security Council November 14 unanimously adopted a resolution endorsing UN efforts to help the Afghan people establish a transitional administration to replace the Taliban.

The resolution, drafted by the United Kingdom and France, gave strong support to the plan set out by UN Special Representative Lakhdar Brahimi to get representatives of the Northern Alliance and Afghan groups both inside and outside the country to meet and begin a process that would eventually lead to the formation of a new government over the next few years.

The resolution calls on the Afghan forces to refrain from acts of reprisal and adhere strictly to human rights and international humanitarian laws.

It also calls on nations to provide urgent humanitarian assistance to the Afghan people as well as fund short- and long-term reconstruction and rehabilitation projects.



This is a summary. I read the actual resolution and saw nothing about member states sending troops to Afghanistan to engage in combat to remove the Taliban from power.

About all it asks member states to actually do is :

Quote
4. Calls on Member States to provide:


Support for such an administration and government, including through the implementation of quick-impact projects,


Urgent humanitarian assistance to alleviate the suffering of Afghan people both inside Afghanistan and Afghan refugees, including in demining,


And long-term assistance for the social and economic reconstruction and rehabilitation of Afghanistan and welcomes initiatives towards this end;

5. Encourages Member States to support efforts to ensure the safety and security of areas of Afghanistan no longer under Taliban control, and in particular to ensure respect for Kabul as the capital for all the Afghan people, and especially to protect civilians, transitional authorities, United Nations and associated personnel, as well as personnel of humanitarian organizations;

If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline maslo

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WMD's found in Iraq
« Reply #166 on: January 12, 2004, 02:30:45 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Godzilla
For instance, that Saddam had tried to KIll Bush Sr, that Saddam could pass WMD to a terrorist, that he could harbor or train them. The threat that Iraq could lauch a scud with WDM into Israel just to destabilize the regeon......and any number of other "unknowns"
 


man i *COULD* so many things that im probably another dictator :D



so first of all i could make some breakfast

Offline Toad

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« Reply #167 on: January 12, 2004, 02:32:45 AM »
1382 is more of the same; no mention of the use of force or deployment of war-fighting troops.

Mostly deals with internal Afghan stuff; really only mentions outside countries getting involved here:

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6. Calls on all bilateral and multilateral donors, in coordination with the Special Representative of the Secretary-General, United Nations Agencies and all Afghan groups, to reaffirm, strengthen and implement their commitment to assist
with the rehabilitation, recovery and reconstruction of Afghanistan, in coordination with the Interim Authority and as long as the Afghan groups fulfil their commitments;


Again, no combat-related deployments.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline Holden McGroin

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« Reply #168 on: January 12, 2004, 02:44:17 AM »
"Too bad the only people who know how to run the country are busy driving cabs and cutting hair."
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Offline Toad

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« Reply #169 on: January 12, 2004, 02:47:16 AM »
And then 1386, 20DEC01; something here at last.

Quote
Acting for these reasons under Chapter VII of the Charter of the United Nations,

1. Authorizes, as envisaged in Annex 1 to the Bonn Agreement, the establishment for 6 months of an International Security Assistance Force to assist the Afghan Interim Authority in the maintenance of security in Kabul and its surrounding areas, so that the Afghan Interim Authority as well as the personnel of
the United Nations can operate in a secure environment;

2. Calls upon Member States to contribute personnel, equipment and other resources to the International Security Assistance Force, and invites those MemberStates to inform the leadership of the Force and the Secretary-General;

3. Authorizes the Member States participating in the International Security Assistance Force to take all necessary measures to fulfil its mandate;

4. Calls upon the International Security Assistance Force to work in close consultation with the Afghan Interim Authority in the implementation of the force mandate, as well as with the Special Representative of the Secretary-General;



Note the date, 20 December 2001. The gist of it is to supply troops for a security zone based around Kabul. Not exactly the removal of the Taliban, is it?

Surely, though, you remember the start of Operation Enduring Freedom?

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OEF commenced on Oct. 7, 2001. Early combat operations included a mix of air strikes from land-based B-1, B-2 and B-52 bombers; carrier-based F-14 and F/A-18 fighters; and Tomahawk cruise missiles launched from both U.S. and British ships and submarines.

The initial military objectives of Operation Enduring Freedom, as articulated by President George W. Bush in his Sept. 20th Address to a Joint Session of Congress and his Oct. 7th address to country, include the destruction of terrorist training camps and infrastructure within Afghanistan, the capture of al Qaeda leaders, and the cessation of terrorist activities in Afghanistan.....

...By October 20, 2001 US and Coalition forces had destroyed virtually all Taliban air defenses and had conducted a highly successful direct action mission on the residence of Mullah Omar in the middle of the Taliban capital, Qandahar.

During this time frame Special Forces detachments linked up with Anti-Taliban leaders and coordinated operational fires and logistics support on multiple fronts.

Twenty days later, the provincial capital of Mazar-e Sharif fell. In rapid succession, Herat, Kabul, and Jalalabad followed.

By mid- December, US Marines had secured Qandahar Airport and the Taliban capital was in the hands of Anti-Taliban forces. Within weeks the Taliban and Al Qaida were reduced to isolated pockets of fighters.

On 22 December Franks traveled to Kabul to attend a ceremony marking the inauguration of the Afghan interim government -- 78 days after the beginning of combat operations.



I think your original statement  

Quote
GScholzThe war against Afghanistan was UN approved.


could only be considered correct on a post facto basis. It was OVER by the time the UN decided to jump on board.

Which, as we've discussed before, is why many here feel the UN is essentially worthless when the stuff hits the fan. Good with earthquakes and vaccinations but when the going gets UN tough, the UN ...... does nothing.

Or as some think of it, when the going gets tough, they send for the SOB's. And we all know who's phone rings when the going gets tough. It sure doesn't ring at the UN.

;)


No, I didn't forget. I was writing this when you answered. Point is, the heavy lifting was OVER by the time the UN even authorised a "security force". As usual.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2004, 02:51:48 AM by Toad »
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline Toad

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WMD's found in Iraq
« Reply #170 on: January 12, 2004, 03:13:46 AM »
Careful, here G.  :D

They didn't approve OEF against Afghanistan specifically.

They merely said  they were

Quote
Determined to combat by all means threats to international peace and security caused by terrorist acts


and

Quote
Recognizing the inherent right of individual or collective self-defence in accordance with the Charter


Now look back at the justification given for the present action in Iraq.

Our government felt Iraq was a threat to "international peace and security caused by terrorist acts". There was the "Atta meets Iraqi intelligence in Prague" that hasn't been completely refuted. Other stuff too.  Our government took action in "self-defence" based on their intel.

Now don't go through all that droll "Bush lied", "wrong intel", yadda-yadda stuff.

That remains to be seen and it will play out in the nearer rather than farther term. They have the Big Fish now, they have Dr. Evil himself.

But our government was certainly ostensibly in-line with this resolution when it made its case and took action against Iraq.

I know you don't agree... but then you don't have a vote in it, do you? I only have a vote in it every four years. So, we'll all just have to act accordingly. I'm patient but I still have my realistic limits.

:D
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline Toad

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« Reply #171 on: January 12, 2004, 04:27:04 AM »
YOUR problem is that if you're going to use that to cover our action in Afghanistan, it also quite easily fits the action in Iraq.

It doesn't specify what entity determines that "combat by all means threats to international peace and security
caused by terrorist acts" is authorised.

It also recognizes "the inherent right of individual or collective self-defence in accordance with the Charter".

So the present administration exercised its inherent right to self-defence and to combat a threat to international peace. In its opinion, of course, not yours.

But then there's nothing in there that says YOU or the UN itself must be consulted and must approve such action.

Like I said, you're making my argument for me.

Now, to bed.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline Nilsen

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« Reply #172 on: January 12, 2004, 04:59:03 AM »
Valium for you all....its on me :)

Offline Kieran

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« Reply #173 on: January 12, 2004, 06:21:38 AM »
I just want to say thank goodness Fishu and Gscholz are above personal attack.

Oh, and Gscholz, that agenda you don't have is really taking shape nicely. By all means, keep not giving hints. And a final FYI; many Americans don't give a crap about the UN, so you can stop prattling on about it as if it means anything. It isn't helping your argument one bit.

Ok, I lied... after listening to too many pontificating Scandinavians, I don't much like them either. Acting like you don't dislike Americans, but every word that comes out of your mouth regarding Americans is how horrible we are. Fine. We'll not do business with you either. We'll just have to live without... without... say, just what is it important that you folks do, anyway?

Offline Nilsen

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« Reply #174 on: January 12, 2004, 06:27:45 AM »
So.. you dont like scandnavians now either Kieran?

Who do you like then.....besides americans?

Offline Kieran

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« Reply #175 on: January 12, 2004, 06:46:26 AM »
Jamaicans are ok, sometimes. Canadians about half-n-half. Don't get me started on Aussies. New Zealanders are ok, though.

Offline Fishu

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« Reply #176 on: January 12, 2004, 06:48:21 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Kieran
I just want to say thank goodness Fishu and Gscholz are above personal attack.


ROFL :rofl

I used the exactly same contex you had used in your previous posts in this thread, no more personal than you've gone on others, actually far less so.

So don't try to be too sarcastic, might hit your own arse with it :D

Offline Godzilla

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« Reply #177 on: January 12, 2004, 06:55:03 AM »
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Originally posted by Sandman_SBM
You can thank our friends in Europe for the turnaround by Qaddafi. It wasn't the Bush administration.


I guess you missed the quote by Qadafi:

"I saw what happened in Iraq, and I was afraid"

Offline Dowding

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« Reply #178 on: January 12, 2004, 06:55:25 AM »
I think I'll hold judgement until Bl-ush actually say "We've found the WMD we invaded Iraq to destroy!" themselves.

At the moment, it's all just moot semantics.
War! Never been so much fun. War! Never been so much fun! Go to your brother, Kill him with your gun, Leave him lying in his uniform, Dying in the sun.

Offline Nilsen

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« Reply #179 on: January 12, 2004, 06:55:30 AM »
Allrightythen Kieran.

Personally i havent met any american (in person) or from any other country that i havnt liked, i actually dated an american once :D

If i state that i don't like a sertain counties political choises, that does not mean that i automaticly hate or dislike the county or the people of that country. It seems tho that does not apply to you.

I manage to keep issues and people separated and that works well for me.