Remorse for virtual death?

[Am0n]

Would anyone be intrested if there was some type of system in AH that would make one think twice about death? someting besides the flight back to the fight.

I strongly feal it is one the key elements that the game is missing. It could increase the enjoyability in the MA tremendously if enemies thought twice about blowing all of there e for a chance at killing you, because 9 times out of 10 when this happens they die 2 seconds later.

There are other scenrios where this would apply also, such as risking taking off from a capped base, would increase winging and team play and make furballing truely for the elite and not just some tin horn who flies around over agressive maybe landing a kill and dies.

I think it could really do some good, as of now this is simply a death match sim, for WWII fighters of course. If you agree what do you think should be implimented to make one want to survive the fight? This game has awesomely modeled AC, very good back bone but its lacking in this area tremendously.

One thought that i had was if you died, or bail in enemy territory and are captured or ditch in enemy territory you loose all credit for the kills and perks, since in "virtual/realality" you are dead.

So if you fly out kill 4 people and die you loose all credit for the kills, not just perks. I say this because scores and ranks seems to be the driving force here..

Sorry for the long post  

<S>AH

Amon

[lazs1]

I believe that real WWII pilots were given credit for their kills even if they didn't return.   I realize that this is a gameplay issue and leaving realism out of the equation... I still think that encouraging timid gameplay would/does cause most of the gangbanging and ack hugging.
   
A lot of guys simply don't care about score and they are the ones that don't post or even read this board.  

I personally would like to be able to read someones K/D and know that it was accurate and not "adjusted" for gameplay reasons.   Perhaps 2 K/D stats... one phony one for gameplay and one accurate one?
lazs

[Kieran]

This proposal is exclusionary by nature; you are eliminating a form of play (or attempting to). Though this may be fun for YOU, it will not be fun for many. Wait for the lazs response to see what I mean...  

[Am0n]

not trying to do anything but get some opinions.. I like AH, but i dont like death match gaming.

Death match got boring after Doom.

[Am0n]

IMO it would decrease gangbanging lazs, simply because one would not want to go out a lone if they feared death, wouldnt you thin that?

Ive personaly never seen a problem with ACK runners, yes i'll call them names, talk smack but its a great tactical advantage to fighting at your base.

[J_A_B]

This system would be horrible for gameplay.  Why do we need a penalty for dying?   It would only increase the already high amount of alt-monkeys and runners in the MA.  

IMO of course.

J_A_B

[Am0n]

JAB
So you think there should not be a penataly for dieing, but a reward for surviving? Or you do not care less?

[lazs1]

amon.. think about it.   The reason people are not venturing out to other fields unless they are in a horde (gangbanging) is because of fear of death..  The reason they are staying close to their own ack is... fear of death.

 you wish to increase fear of death and at the same time ack hugging and gangbanging while doing nothing to stop those who would respawn endlessly since they do not care now, nor would they care under your system.   all you would do is make the stats inaccurate while at the same time ruining gameplay.

so no... I don't think it is a good idea to ruin gameplay and make the stats phony and useless just so that a very few guys can say... "see, I don't suck so bad when you look at it this way".
lazs

[Am0n]

Im asking if anyone would be intrested in a system that promoted surviving the fight, not my system. That was just an example i thought of while typing up the post.

Are we all (the BBS folks) intrested in DM or flight sim?

my self i like the flight sim

[lazs1]

ah, "death match or flight sim"... getting a little self rightious now tho eh?   As I pointed out... I don't believe encouraging gangbanging or timidity is a good thing for a flight sim.

you claim to want a flight sim but it appears that  the only thing that is imprortant to you (simulated) is flying to live.   You seem to assume that surviving was the most important thing to WWII pilots and that "simulating" that timidity is  the only real way.  

I would claim that no one would have climbed into a belly turrent if "survivability" was the overriding factor nor, would they have dove into a group of 40 enemy planes or signed on at all for the battle of britan or dove "divine wind" into carriers.
lazs

[Broes]

After death a 30 second spawn delay... Time to catch your breath, dowse your anger, have a pee break, drink a beer, do anti RSI excersise and then re-up.

Since 'normal' flights last at least 10-15 minutes, this 30 seconds is no loss but it would prevent dweebs from ultra spawning from vulched fields and not getting those 30 mm messages they get all the time  

Broes

[J_A_B]

A reward for survival, like the current perk bonus, is perfectly fine.  This does not have any negative implications.  

A penalty for dying, however, would have nasty negative effects.

J_A_B

[Am0n]

Broes
Although i appreiticate some postitive imput for a change i do humblely disagree that, that would have any effect on game play. If in the moment of truth, you got someone low, would that make you think twice about blowing all your E to chase him down near his base with a huge risk of death? I would think not. Or i should say i wouldnt mind waiting an extra 30 seconds to have the 2 seconds of fame, perks and credit for the kill.

It would indeed detour people from upping instantly after death as you stated though. Which in its self is a good thing, but not in this scenerio.
---

JAB

Any ideas for a bonus for surviving the fight?

Personaly, the thought of getting a bonus for survival wouldnt effect my play, simply because perks and kills dont mean much to me. Maybe if there was another bonus, one i dont know of, that would inspire me to stay alive and fight smart.

Although It would make me think twice about chasing someone down and blowing my E if i new that if i died i wasnt going to get credit for the kill or even perks for it, if i was killed. But i understand that some could not accept that as inspiration to stay a live.

[J_A_B]

Well, in AW the system was as follows:

If you killed a plane, you got X points (around 200).   If you landed, you got 4X points (around 800).  If you landed the NEXT flight, it increased it by about 25%, so if you landed a kill on a second consecutive flight the base points would be about 1000, then up to about 1250 on the third flight, and so on.   If you got a long kill streak without being killed you could really rake in the points.

AW also gave a bonus for killing planes over enemy territory as opposed to staying in friendly territory, and another bonus for killing multiple planes on a single mission (for example landing 1 kill might get you 800 points, but landing 5 would net you about 6000 points).

Score was totally worthless in AW, but in AH a similar system may work well with the perk system.

And all that without penalizing those who died a lot.

Another thing AH could do would be to "award" a free perk plane to someone who landed a certain number of kills with 0 deaths.  

Or perhaps create a small but REAL award for the pilot who has the highest K/D at the end of a tour (of course with a required minimum number of kills), something like you get to pick the map for the first week of the next campaign.

Or omething minor, like add "Ace" in fromt of a person's handle who maintains a certain K/D.  Some tangible reward, but nothing so major as to effect the game for people who don't CARE about points.

There's a lot of things you can do to create an incentive for survival without having to negatively impact the game.  What you have to be careful of avoiding is altering the gameplay to the point where everyone is afraid to get killed, otherwise the game turns into a bunch of altmonkeys chasing each other around.

J_A_B

[Nifty]

In the MA or CT...  Absolutely not.  Death penalties would have serious implications on gameplay for everyone.

Play the special events if you want to play with your one virtual life.  It's a lot of fun, much more so than the arenas.