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Author Topic: A world without the US  (Read 7599 times)

Offline mrblack

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« Reply #75 on: February 15, 2004, 12:25:17 AM »
I wonder how much posting would be done If the copy and past function was never invented:rofl
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Offline Naso

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« Reply #76 on: February 15, 2004, 03:24:44 AM »
How in the hell a "future oriented" thread has been transformed in the usual "We saved world's bellybutton x years ago" clichè???

Sometime....

Ah.. nevermind.
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Offline _Schadenfreude_

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« Reply #77 on: February 15, 2004, 04:26:05 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Kanth
There'd be alot more indians.


and Buffalo too!!
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Offline _Schadenfreude_

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« Reply #78 on: February 15, 2004, 04:26:51 AM »
also no Ronald McDonald!!
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Offline type_char

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« Reply #79 on: February 15, 2004, 04:34:16 AM »
No more freedome fries for you.
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Offline Kieran

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« Reply #80 on: February 15, 2004, 04:35:23 AM »
I don't think I ever said we saved the world. It's typical of the BBS logic.

I said Israel would be forced to go nuke in the Middle East. People said Israel doesn't and never did need US support, and suggested I needed to read more about it. I showed exactly where Israel very much DID need US support in the past. People got all huffy and said I was giving the US all credit for the Israeli victory in Yom Kippur. I never said that at all, but that didn't stop some people.

In other words, though I am right, some just make a minor adjustment to the argument and slog on. I did find funny the suggestion by one poster the UN helped Israel, but aside for some resolutions, I can't see a single thing in the two wars I was told to look at where the UN did anything. Funny how history repeats itself, eh?
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Offline NUKE

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« Reply #81 on: February 15, 2004, 04:37:49 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by type_char
No more freedome fries for you.


The Frech Government "courriel electroniqued"  the US in protest :lol
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Offline type_char

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« Reply #82 on: February 15, 2004, 04:45:41 AM »
viva la paris! viva la paris!
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Offline Staga

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« Reply #83 on: February 15, 2004, 06:08:01 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Kieran
Additionally- no way South Korea stays free. NK would cross that border 15 minutes after it was clear the US would not interfere. There wouldn't be any time whatsoever for developing nukes. China wouldn't stop it, China would be more than happy to see it happen.


You may want to check how much more money South is using for arming than North, also check out how much bigger army is South capable to pull up from its ranks than North.

Answer to those is 2 - 2,5 times more; in money and in man power.
South wouldn't have any problems to defend itself from North if given few years time to build up its army.
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Offline NUKE

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« Reply #84 on: February 15, 2004, 06:46:03 AM »
If the North attacked south Korea and the US wasn't there, I wonder what other nation would defend SK? The UN could maybe draft  a resolution ( and China could veto it), but that's about it.

Without the evil US presence in SK, NK could make a just peace with the south I'll bet.
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Offline type_char

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« Reply #85 on: February 15, 2004, 06:57:07 AM »
Viva la China! Viva la China!
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Offline Kieran

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« Reply #86 on: February 15, 2004, 07:45:19 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Staga
You may want to check how much more money South is using for arming than North, also check out how much bigger army is South capable to pull up from its ranks than North.

Answer to those is 2 - 2,5 times more; in money and in man power.
South wouldn't have any problems to defend itself from North if given few years time to build up its army.


Ah, but the question is what would happen if the US left now. That's kind of my point; the South wouldn't have years to arm, it'd be more like days.
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Offline Nashwan

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« Reply #87 on: February 15, 2004, 08:03:35 AM »
Quote
I said Israel would be forced to go nuke in the Middle East.


I don't think Israel would use nukes. They wouldn't need to.

Without US military aid, Israel is much weaker conventionaly, but the Arab states are far weaker now than when they were Soviet clients.

Egypt is the strongest state near Israel, but only because they get US military aid to keep them friendly with Israel.

Israel's problem if the US stopped sending aid is keeping their civilian economy afloat, and the cost of keeping substantial occupation forces in Palestinian areas.

Nuking their neighbours would make both problems worse, and bring economic sanctions from Europe. Israel currently does most of it's trade with Europe. Israel has had tariff free access to the EU for many years. If that goes, and US aid stops, living in Israel looks a far less attractive proposition than moving to Europe or America for most Jews, which makes the problems even worse, and accelerates the emigration.

Israel's real problems are demographics and the economy, neither of which are helped by war.
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Offline Curval

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« Reply #88 on: February 15, 2004, 08:05:09 AM »
Toad,

In your first post the airlift allowed "Israel to send hundreds of additional tanks and planes into battle that were being saved in case of future losses."

Notice where these supplies went: "materiel unloaded from the transports usually were at the front in Syria in about three hours and in the Sinai in less than 10 hours."

These were being used in offensive actions outside Israel from my read.

Israel went on to use those weapons to knock the crap out of Syria and Egypt so that FUTURE offensive action would be impossible from them.  But they did so in those countries...the Israelis had already hustled them right on out of their own country.
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Some will fall in love with life and drink it from a fountain that is pouring like an avalanche coming down the mountain

Offline lazs2

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« Reply #89 on: February 15, 2004, 09:28:46 AM »
so shlots is pretty much saying that nothing would change because we are not very agressive now and that everything we do is pretty much in the form of aid given to countries that need it to stop tyranny and that...

given the parameters of the question..  only a few little countries like kuwait would be slaughtered if we continued financial but not overt mikitary intervention...  

he's probly wrong in any case cause if the world knew we would do nothing militarily things would play out differently... WWII couldn't have been won by U.S. dollars and no U.S. blood..  Communism could not have been all but destryed with no U.S. blood..

but... I agree with Gshloz... the U.S. is a pretty even handed and fair country that helps countries help themselves and doesn't push it's weight around much.

surprised he gets it considering his hatred of all things American.

lazs
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