Author Topic: When is a bug not a bug?  (Read 1876 times)

Offline Fidd

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When is a bug not a bug?
« on: February 16, 2004, 09:33:30 AM »
Hitech,

It would seem we have different conceptions of what constitutes a bug. I can appreciate this is your game, however, if you invite comment on bugs from the playerbase, it is only reasonable to expect occasionally the players perceptions to differ from yours.

That you seem unable to accept constructive criticism, at the beta stage, of really fundemental elements, can ultimately only be to HTC's detriment.

Your quote below, in bold, is missing the point. A more mature and intelligent response on your part might have been to measure the extent of the problem under discussion prior to determining that it would materially affect size or time issues.

In all likelihood, based on the aircraft I've seen roughly 1 in 8 aircraft sets would contain a bitmap where revision would benefit HTC in the long run. Nearly all of these revisions would require no additional new artwork whatsoever, that you do not have on file already.

I wish you luck with your game in the future. If this exchange is typical of others who have ventured honest opinions on AH, and I gather from several emails from erstwhile contributors that it is; then I rather think you'll need it.

Regards Fidd

Quote
Fidd simply this is a bug form, not a let's critique HTC's way of doing things. And I re read your first post one more time. Still have yet to see a bug in the post. It was nothing but a whine, then the last line in the post put it over the top.

So fidd what your saying is, we should delay AHII for a substantial amout of time, just so so you can modifie skins the way you wish to. Sorry that would not be a very wise discision on our part, and that dosn't address size issues.

Now this tread also does not belong here. So im closing it down.

HiTech
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Offline straffo

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When is a bug not a bug?
« Reply #1 on: February 16, 2004, 09:41:12 AM »
Bug :  An unwanted and unintended property of a program , esp. one that causes it to malfunction.


Do not confuse it with a misfeature.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2004, 09:43:16 AM by straffo »

Offline Fidd

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When is a bug not a bug?
« Reply #2 on: February 16, 2004, 09:44:15 AM »
also from Mirriam-webster "a flaw or imperfection"

Quote
Originally posted by straffo
Bug :  An unwanted and unintended property of a program , esp. one that causes it to malfunction.


Do not confuse it with a misfeature.

Offline straffo

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When is a bug not a bug?
« Reply #3 on: February 16, 2004, 09:48:31 AM »
Being a god nerd I use the Jargon file for this kind of definition :)

http://catb.org/~esr/jargon/

Offline F1Bomber

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When is a bug not a bug?
« Reply #4 on: February 16, 2004, 10:42:58 AM »
Seems like my assumption from my coffe number 1 actualy hit it dead on the spot wouldnt you say. Atleast 50%.

straffo your allways correct :aok

Hitech has allready said he wont be changing the underlying model.

Though hitech, could you give me an answer if you will be allowing terrian editors to define more than 7 tiles in ah2? Because this is a huge limiting factor in aces high 1 when building a terrian.

Offline hitech

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When is a bug not a bug?
« Reply #5 on: February 16, 2004, 10:51:59 AM »
The point fidd it is not a flaw or inperfection. It just not the way YOU wish it.
But to view your lastes post as "CONSTRUCTIVE" is one of the fartherest streatches of the meaning I can fathom. Simply put to be constructive you have to show a little bit of respect in your post. You have shown none and do nothing but tair stuff down.

This is not constructive and simply becomes a "whine" the whine factor  is why im jump on this stuff.

Your comming out with both barrles just to try get somthing in that you wish. Now your trying a new tatic of flaming me for the way I deal with out of line customers. I take critisim of my product day in day out. But when some turns critisims into insults, I simply don't always put up with it. This is one of those times.

HiTech

Offline F1Bomber

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When is a bug not a bug?
« Reply #6 on: February 16, 2004, 11:00:01 AM »
:mad:

Damn i am never going to get that question answered bugger :( have to wait for ah2 editor then :(

:(

Offline hitech

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When is a bug not a bug?
« Reply #7 on: February 16, 2004, 11:00:12 AM »
F1Bomber: One of the nice new things about AH2 Terrains is it is no longer an expontial curv on adding tiles. Currently we are limited to the same set as AHI, but each in set it has 4 sub sets. I.E. as in 4 sub types of forest.

Changeing the tile is not as easy as AH1. Tiles are now compltly 3D and also encompase the trees and bushes and such so changing the underling texture can look strange. To change the 3D portion requires a 3D editor.

Ive been searching for a free or inexpensive one that has the needed items for AH but havn't been able to find a sutible one at this time.

How the final form of AHedit will be released is still some what up in the air. Currently im considering creating my own 3d editor that will only function in a very limited fasion and basicly alow you to create tiles from other smaller component objects.

HiTech

Offline Hap

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When is a bug not a bug?
« Reply #8 on: February 16, 2004, 11:00:57 AM »
"tone" goes a long way to build "constructive" discussion.

Offline straffo

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When is a bug not a bug?
« Reply #9 on: February 16, 2004, 11:13:13 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by F1Bomber
straffo your allways correct :aok


If the above statement is true I gonna get the next nobel prize :)










Sadly it's not likely to happen anyday :D

Offline straffo

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When is a bug not a bug?
« Reply #10 on: February 16, 2004, 11:14:39 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by hitech
Ive been searching for a free or inexpensive one that has the needed items for AH but havn't been able to find a sutible one at this time.


Have you looked Blender ?

http://www.blender.org/


it's scriptable using python but I've just played a little bit with it and I'm far from having the minimal artistic skills to produce anything better than smurfy or extremly horrible :)

Offline F1Bomber

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When is a bug not a bug?
« Reply #11 on: February 16, 2004, 11:15:20 AM »
Thanks hitech for the reply it just give me the added information i needed to know about aces high 2.

Though i original thought that the new tile system was going to be tottaly 3D and not just 9 vertexs per tile.

On the question about a 3D editors, I want to originaly build a new 3D world editor for aces high 1 that has more functionality than the original version that htc allows people to download. On the release of aces high 2 this project was put onto the back burner until ah2 came out or i could get some extra information on how the new system worked before procceding.

I have allready creat a program called autolevel, its a nice little program that detects objects in the oba file and levels the terrian automaticaly for the person and also gif to field placement that allows the person to creat a 255 field map on a gif image and it will place all the fields for the user. This reduces the development time for maps by 10 fold.

I am intrested to know the requirements for this 3D editor, myself just getting into the 3D world of programing would like a challenge somthing like that :)

But if you want to do it all inhouse i understand, though it wont stop me from developing one.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2004, 11:18:09 AM by F1Bomber »

Offline straffo

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When is a bug not a bug?
« Reply #12 on: February 16, 2004, 11:18:10 AM »
If you are searching and 3 CAD engine you can also lookup http://www.opencascade.org

There is even a Java wrapper

it sound sexy no ? ;)

Offline frank3

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When is a bug not a bug?
« Reply #13 on: February 16, 2004, 11:32:51 AM »
Quote
When is a bug not a bug?


Oh please stop it fidd, you'll just end up with this thread closed again

Offline Fidd

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When is a bug not a bug?
« Reply #14 on: February 16, 2004, 11:59:24 AM »
In the original post, I laid out clearly the problem as I saw it clearly, suggested possible remedies, and gave an honest opinion on the B17  skin. That, by any standards is a constructively critical post. If it was a whine, or simply criticism, I would merely have said "it sucks". Which would not have been true in any case.

I suggest to you that had you "respected" my original post in the way it was intended, and written, you would not be feeling all "unrespected" now.

If you show no respect for your customers, you cannot expect to be shown respect by them, or indeed retain them, especially if you compound the foul-up by failing to at least listen to them when they tell you there are retrieavable problems.

If you still think this is an attempt to get the the B17 skinned "the way I wish it" you have really not understood the issue frankly. I am not arguing the point with you for my benefit one jot.

I know just how much artwork will get turned out by the community, which I rather think you are very much under-rating, both in quality and quantity. It is precisely because I understand built in inflexibilites are going to limit all of the after-market skinners that it is very important to audit the skins, and remove these few inflexibilites where possible; and the time to do is now, before doing so invalidates a library of new skins.

Now why don't you show you "have cattle to go with that hat" as it were by admitting that whilst we may disagree about the priority for an audit of AH2 skins by the players to design out inflexibilities, that it is a real issue, and that you could, frankly, have handled it a lot better.

We might well be only talking about 3 or 4 bitmaps total!

Quote
Originally posted by hitech
The point fidd it is not a flaw or inperfection. It just not the way YOU wish it.
But to view your lastes post as "CONSTRUCTIVE" is one of the fartherest streatches of the meaning I can fathom. Simply put to be constructive you have to show a little bit of respect in your post. You have shown none and do nothing but tair stuff down.

This is not constructive and simply becomes a "whine" the whine factor  is why im jump on this stuff.

Your comming out with both barrles just to try get somthing in that you wish. Now your trying a new tatic of flaming me for the way I deal with out of line customers. I take critisim of my product day in day out. But when some turns critisims into insults, I simply don't always put up with it. This is one of those times.

HiTech