Where Have All The Aces Gone?

[R4M]

I think I can count with my hand fingers the times I've logged in last month...AH is walking towards a gameplay style I dont like too much and I've been a bit bored of it lately.

I log in now and then but not in a very regular way.

[Rude]

Hi Santa!

It's hard to engage for a sustained time in the MA due to all of the traffic...get a good fight going and here comes someones friends

I think I'll post a film of a typical Rude sortie so some of the experts here can critique it...I would be very curious as to what folks have to say about it. When at work, I cannot post a film, but I will this weekend.

Perhaps Lazs could post one of his typical sorties as well as some others...might be fun to wallow in that thread for a bit

 

[Maniac]

I think I can count with my hand fingers the times I've logged in last month...AH is walking towards a gameplay style I dont like too much and I've been a bit bored of it lately.
I log in now and then but not in a very regular way.

Uh Oh! another I Quit! is on the way  

Regards

[hblair]

I'll take all of you on. Meet me in the SEA arena tonight. Before its all over it'll be only me in my G10 left in the arena.

I'll be practicing...

.eject XXX

Yeah baby, I still got game.

 

[Toad]

Santa, which TAS you guys been killing? I see you got some though.

Tour 22:  kirin squad has 0 kills and has been killed 2 times against toad

Tour 21:  kirin squad has 1 kill and has been killed 1 time against toad.

Tour 20: kirin squad has 5 kills and has been killed 4 times against toad

Tour 19:  kirin squad has 0 kills and has been killed 0 times against toad

Tour 18:  kirin squad has 0 kills and has been killed 0 times against toad
 
Tour 17: kirin squad has 0 kills and has been killed 1 time against toad

Tour 16: kirin squad has 0 kills and has been killed 1 time against toad.

Looks like Bad Guys 6, Toad 9  

Always fun engaging you guys. You wing well together. One must be "on his game" to live.
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PS: Don't you think posting stats is about the dumbest thing ever? Doesn't really prove a dang thing, does it?

 

[lazs1]

wow voss that old scorpion wound must be actin up eh?   I have checked... I have never been killed by you or you me.   We fly in different sims.   I am not some newbie that can't avoid 3 of your silly B&Z's in a row and I am not interested in working my way up to a co E situation with you so that (in your own words)  can run away.  

wolfie has given a pretty good description of skill.   you can fly "smart" all you want but having skill will still come in handy someday.  several guys in my squad with a lot more talent than me consider getting 2 planes on their 6 to be an attack strategy.  Getting on their six is probly the first step toward death for 99% of us.   They fly mediocre planes into any situation imaginable from high alt energy to in the weeds 1 v 3.   Their main goal is to get the other plane to commit.  Even I find that "luring"  a high alt sky accountant down is pretty risk free.   Most guys that come in with a lot of alt simply take longer to get into the fight but end up about the same as they would have if they would have just come in at the furs medium alt.   Alt advantage is overrated in a crowd.  If you add organization, squad numbers and untouchable planes tho to the alt equation then you have an untenable situation for the planes below.  You are holding all the cards and you are not worth playing with.

rude... didn't know you were so touchy.   I said that I got no problem with the way you fly or with what you fly but.... And this is a big but... I don't wanna play.   a lot of people don't wanna play that game.   flying in an organized manner in superior and relatively risk free planes is fun for you and friends apparently but...  You have to realize that most don't enjoy being on the other end of such a lopsided equation.   For me tho... it is mostly unfun and a waste of time.  

Like I said... There are (at least) two distinct styles of fighting in the arena.   I feel it is fortunate that they don't affect each other much.   I do not wish to be forced to fly "smart" with a huge drop in action.  OTOH,If you wish to "get in on the action"  then I would suggest that you get into mediocre planes and go where the action is.   If you do not put yourself at risk then you are really incapable of judgeing furball skill levels.  Heck... you don't even get to observe some of the best dogfiting around.   you will end up a bitter lone wolf wussy like voss... searching for risk free kills and wondering why nobody cares.
lazs

[Am0n]

Lazs you realize there are fights above 10k right? very high speed, face paced fights. High alt fights are 10 times more difficult, and 10 times more gratifiying than low alt conflicts.

Since i have not once seen you even above 5k your opinion on high alt fighting is like blowing smoke up a dead horses ass, just like 99% of your post.. pointless.

You always like to point out how mediocre the f4u is, which is also roadkill . It rolls 10 times faster than any other AC you will find fighting on the deck, easy out card if you ask me.

if you guys are pissy with Lazs and you want to kill him just look for the most out numbered fight for you vrs us Rooks, find the hog with 3 wingman and its Lazs.

[ 12-13-2001: Message edited by: Am0n ]

[lazs1]

amon, first of all... you don't know squat about me and probly about the same amount about the game.  I've been doing this far longer than the time frame that you have been "watching" me...  
You are below me most of the time and my "wingie" and I have saved your stupid butt several times at the least.  You have no SA that I can see.  furballs are way to tough for your skill level right now.   If we hadn't saved you your pitiful K/D would be even worse.

Now.. I never said that there weren't fites above 10K... as a matter of fact it was the guys that fly up there that are complaining that there are no fites up there... they don't see anyone.  

Looking at your flying I would say your ability to "watch" anything is in serious doubt.. you can't watch cons much less me.  You don't even know what is happening around you much less what I am doing... Perhaps with your limited SA you SHOULD fly way up high where your SA won't be so strained?
lazs

[loser]

go rook and kill the DHBG, no wait the assassins do that already  

[lazs1]

And amon.. the hog is mediocre but... if you believe it is such a good furballer then Iwould suggest you fly one for a tour and buck the stats of the plane.  Grab a 1A and I will fly with you all tour if you like.  go where I go and show me how easy it is to furball in that plane.   I kinda like it but I sure could use some tips from a "vet" like yourself.  

I admit to being mediocre.. I believe the Hog is a mediocre MA plane.  a simple look at my stats and what types of planes I kill will show what kind of fights I engage in.  50% of my kills are planes that are below me and 50% are planes that attack me from an alt advantage.  I spend much of my time below 250mph, a good deal slower than 200.  

I have talked with people about how I fly, people who have flown with me for years, people who's opinion was relevant.  you are not relavant.
lazs

[Sky Viper]

Originally posted by Rude:
Now, I don't fly as much as most folks do, but still, I don't ever see or fight the better pilots in the sim. Contrary to popular belief, my squad flies in the weeds most all of the time, leaving when we see the odds changing against us. Still, I would think that every once and awhile, I would have a turn with some of the better pilots.

Do you guys just see a gaggle of ponies and run away or what? The only pilots that I can remember fighting or even seeing are Nath, RA, Fester, but thats about it.

Where ya be boys and if I ask while online, will ya buck up and invite us to the dance?

 
QB]

Bah hahahaha...bunch of chicken arses!

Yeah, if we see a gaggle of high ponies we go the other way. Unless we are also high, in which case the ponies usually go the other way.
 

[qb]Contrary to popular belief, my squad flies in the weeds most all of the time, leaving when we see the odds changing against us.

How do you expect to fight us(not that I am one of the "Better Pilots") if you run away all the time?  My guess is that you just can't win if you don't have either an altitude or numbers advantage.

I hardly ever go into areas where my country is dominant.  I'm a defender by nature and I still kick ass.  Something I am SURE you and the TAS CAN NOT do!
"Better pilots"  Hmmph!

 
Viper

[CRASH]

Totally agree, I'll purposely take my mustang with 75% fuel and go find an angles fighter to tangle with on the deck.  If he's any good I usually get dusted but it keeps my angles abilities up, and sometimes it's a real blast.  

CRASH

 

Originally posted by wulf14:
One of the best indicators of skill, definitions of good, etc. for any WW2 player vs. player flight sim:

When the guy who has none of the advantages in a 1 on 1 fight can win consistently anyways.

There are multiple guys out there who can be on the deck vs. 2 good opponents (i.e. 2 on 1) and have a fair chance of killing both enemies and living to tell about it. Those guys are really good.

They have good SA.

They have great gunnery skills (you only get 1 or 2 shots in a 2 on 1 vs. good opponents).

They have good evasive maneuver skills. Most people don't know what this means. This means making the bad guys miss while burning a minimum of energy on the part of the evader.

lazs is very very correct in at least one sense. Guys who spend their entire life 'flying smart' and going for a huge k/d will be at a disadvantage when fighting vs. someone who 'alternates styles'.

One of the mantras of JG 14 in WBs...

"The main arena is where you practice trying to live in impossible situations."

In other words, it pays to jump in low to help a buddy sometimes...even though you are making a 6 on 1 a 6 on 2.

The only way to get better at bad odds, bad E state matchup fighting is to do it.

I gurantee you one thing - drex did not get how he is today in online flight sims by only engaging when he had an E advantage over the majority of the enemy aircraft in the area.

But don't take this wrong - there is some merit to trying to live as well. You can't get good at having really paranoid SA until you really care about landing as many sorties as possible.

lazs' yank and bank develops one type of SA very well...much better than 'smart' flying. 'Smart' flying develops a different type of SA.

Just because one crowd has some valid points doesn't mean the other crowd doesn't have any.

Also, a significant number of guys coming from other sims find you average 'hot stick' in AH not too hard to kill one on one. Some guys, who have played only AH, have never fought an enemy with as high an average experience level as say WB 1.11...when the same 100 guys were flying every night.

Don't assume I mean you when I'm talking of an average 'hot stick'. If you assume I mean you then get some self confidence.

But, like in any other sim...many of those high k/d are the product of guys hunting for the last 5 minutes of a field capture. When you catch a 'hot stick' one on one you know after a few seconds how he gets that high k/d...if he has one to start.

The bottom line - k/d and kill streaks are one indicator of many if someone is really an all around 'hot stick'. There are many other indicators, but the bottom line is co-E, similar aircraft, fight to the death, who wins? That's the best way to find out. All other posing and talking means dick.

I've had my disagreements with lazs in the past, but the bottom line is he can maneuver the ugly blue thing and he can make snapshots. Like him or not he's got more practice fighting 1 on 3 15' above the waves than many who blithely dismiss him. I think alot of the 'dismissers' don't want to fight him 1 on 1 in F4Us.

Anyways, you are all both kind of right. But k/d in a MA is only of limited value as proof to others. If you set out to get a 200 kill streak in the MA to prove to yourself you can do it, then you have my sincere congratulations. But don't forget the other indicators of skill.

At least that's my opinion. And I know drex was never in the top 10 of WB kill streaks. Usually because he got bored. Now have a $500 pool for who can get the highest kill streak...in an arena with a side cap of 50 players per side (so no 2 sides vs. 1 gangbang easy kill nights), and average in kills/time...you'd see some previously unseen 'hot sticks' come out of the woodwork. 8)

Mike/wulf14

wulfie of JG 14 in WB

Ancient Fw 190 Psycho

[Am0n]

So lazs tell me this, my opinion means nothing to you but it envoked enough emoition in you to reply to my post 2 times? sounds like you are trying to convince your self, not me.


As far as my SA goes, i dont see a problem with it. I dont only fly when theres 10-15 friendlies around, like your self. as a matter of fact thats the only time i see you is when i am a part of that hoard of planes. Normaly you can find me flying a lone some where, which can be bad new a lot of the time. But i dont find any pleasure in helping 9 friendlies kill 1 enemy.

I never said you werent a good pilot, or i was better but you do not impress me none the less. You talk trash to everyone and when they ask you to go to the DA you start singing a different song.

[ 12-14-2001: Message edited by: Am0n ]