Dubya to Jump Shark

[Kieran]

Funked-

It's only a matter of time before something like that does indeed happen. I won't be "okay" with that any better than gays are right now. Never suggested gays had to be "okay" with anything. They have their opportunity to reform America, I have mine.

As for the Constitution being amended, we'll see. But let's recognize something here... the gays are the folks bringing this to a head. They are trying to backdoor gay marriage into law through lawsuit and unlawful weddings now in SF. They are forcing the rest of America to be "okay" with gay marriage by forcing each state to respect gay marriages from other states (Massachusetts may be the first). Right now individual states can deny that privilege, but it's only one Supreme Court decision from becoming the law of the land. This means the only recourse to the 38 states that currently have same-sex marriage amendments (meaning anti-gay marriage) to protect their right to remain so in the only way possible- through Constitutional amendment.

Now I am not excited about the course we are on, but personally, I'm pretty damned tired of being pushed and just taking it. I don't believe in the lifestyle. I don't support it. I do believe it is immoral. Why in the world would I support a law respecting an immoral activity? Easymo said it best..."gays have gone beyond simply getting acceptance. They appear to want the religious to advocate their behavior."

Gays may get the right to marry- probably will, in fact. I will not support it in any way, shape, or form. It won't change the outcome one iota, but I will have a clear conscience nonetheless.

[Kieran]

Originally posted by rpm371
Hello Mr. Pot, meet Mr. Kettle.

That may very well be, rpm. OTOH, I am not asking for your explanation for why you support homosexuality- in fact, it doesn't matter to me at all. Same for Frogman.

[Nakhui]

Originally posted by -dead-
Salad is the lawful union between potato and egg.

Not between egg and egg, not between potato and potato.

Though your cause sounds worthy...
I would disagree agree with your definition that all salads are potato and eggs.

I prefer iceberg, romain, bitter loose leaf, green olive, sliced pear, sliced apple, egg, pepper, cheddar and ranch dressing in my salad.

For me hold the Potato!

Lucky for the both of us. I don't have to eat your salad and you don't have to eat mine, and what we do in the privacy of our own kitchen is our affair.

Personally, I have no opinion good or bad over your choice of salad ingredients... however, immoral they may be.... after all no one is forcing me to mix eggs and potatos together.

[Charon]

There are some sects that believe that sex, even in marriage, for purposes other than reproduction is amoral. There are those that believe that non-reproductive practices like oral sex are amoral. So why stop with gay marriage? Why not criminalize amoral sex that does not serve reproduction or at the very least outlaw marriage to people who will not sign a contract stating that they will only practice morally approved sexual practices in their bedroom and that they accept Jesus Christ as their lord? As also noted, divorce should be outlawed and adultry criminalized. [I mean why not? Just because you may disagree with someone else's sense of morality doesn't matter, does it, as long as you hap[pen to belong to the majority opinion.]

Threads like these are always a good time to reference my favorite theologian: Jack Chick

The Gay Blade

DOOM TOWN

Charon

[Kieran]

Ah, the ol' "We can't stop everything, so why stop anything?" argument. Yes, I've seen that one.

[Nakhui]

Originally posted by Kieran
Funked-

It's only a matter of time before something like that does indeed happen. I won't be "okay" with that any better than gays are right now. Never suggested gays had to be "okay" with anything. They have their opportunity to reform America, I have mine.

As for the Constitution being amended, we'll see. But let's recognize something here... the gays are the folks bringing this to a head. They are trying to backdoor gay marriage into law through lawsuit and unlawful weddings now in SF. They are forcing the rest of America to be "okay" with gay marriage by forcing each state to respect gay marriages from other states (Massachusetts may be the first). Right now individual states can deny that privilege, but it's only one Supreme Court decision from becoming the law of the land. This means the only recourse to the 38 states that currently have same-sex marriage amendments (meaning anti-gay marriage) to protect their right to remain so in the only way possible- through Constitutional amendment.

Now I am not excited about the course we are on, but personally, I'm pretty damned tired of being pushed and just taking it. I don't believe in the lifestyle. I don't support it. I do believe it is immoral. Why in the world would I support a law respecting an immoral activity? Easymo said it best..."gays have gone beyond simply getting acceptance. They appear to want the religious to advocate their behavior."

Gays may get the right to marry- probably will, in fact. I will not support it in any way, shape, or form. It won't change the outcome one iota, but I will have a clear conscience nonetheless.

Juist like interracial couples wanted the same rights in the 1960s/70s. Same issues here. Many states out lawed interracial marriages specially between blacks and whites.... it was ok for a white to marry a chinese or orient... but not a black.

Gay people want to have civil unions with the same legal rights as married men and women.

The right to make medical decisions
The right to property
The right to power of attorney
The right to hospital visists
The right to adopt and raise childen and make decisions.
The right to life insurance, medical insurance, emergency leave, paternal leave...
Federal and State Tax benifets, tax burdons, etc...

All the legal rights that married people have just by applying for the $15 to $30 license.

This is no body's business, except their own. It affects no one but the two people who wish to be married.

It doesn't make the community immoral, it doesn't corrupt children, it doesn't bring down house values in the neighborhood.

It makes no difference in the world.

It's just exposes the bigotry and hypocrisy which lives in America.

The only issue here that people are stuck on is that the couple has the same gender.

Ain't it odd that all these "anti-big-government" conservatives want the government to be into every's business.

[Torque]

Homosexuallity occurs throughout nature Chuck and has since the beginning of time, common amoungst all upper primates which you are still a member of unless you believe in fairy tales about virgin mothers and shooting stars.

But then again they'll all burn in hell with Jimmy Swaggart.

[Charon]

Ah, the ol' "We can't stop everything, so why stop anything?" argument. Yes, I've seen that one.

If that a reference to my post, it's actually more a case of:

"Your rights end where my opinion begins... as long as I'm in the majority."

Which would be followed by: "What do you mean my wife and I can't practice oral sex in our marriage bed if we want too? Our marriage is anulled?!!! Who in the HE double hockey sticks do you think you are to tell ME that?!!!"

Charon

[AKIron]

Originally posted by Torque
Homosexuallity occurs throughout nature Chuck and has since the beginning of time, common amoungst all upper primates which you are still a member of unless you believe in fairy tales about virgin mothers and shooting stars.

But then again they'll all burn in hell with Jimmy Swaggart.

I don't think that any of the other "upper primates" have constitutions or marriage. Heck, they don't even pay taxes. We are so oppressed.

[Kieran]

Gay people want to have civil unions with the same legal rights as married men and women.

The right to make medical decisions
The right to property
The right to power of attorney
The right to hospital visists
The right to adopt and raise childen and make decisions.
The right to life insurance, medical insurance, emergency leave, paternal leave...
Federal and State Tax benifets, tax burdons, etc...

Medical decisions- right.
Property- right.
Attorney- right.
Hospital visits- not a right.
Adopt children- not a right.
Insurance- not a right.
Taxes- only if you pay in.

You see, we fundamentally disagree on what a right actually is.

[Yeager]

all these attempts to defile marriage by pointing out the already existing flaws in human behavior are truly moronic.
Why would you just add another flaw to the equation to justify further erosion of morality instead of trying to improve the situation?

"A man is drowning that you do not want to drown.  He has 3 stones around his neck and the stones are weighing him down but he can barely just manage to breath and stays alive.  Why would you tie a fourth stone around his neck, if doing that would surely drown him?  Unless you really did indeed want the man to drown!"

Citing all heterosexual deviants as the very reason to add homosexual deviants into the already suffering mix is plain illogical, to me at least

[Kieran]

Anyway, if a few of you "anti-homosexual bigotry" types want to see some bigotry, look no further than the "Passion" thread. My, my, just read some of the stuff you yourselves have written.

"Mr. Pot meet Mr. Kettle" indeed.

[AKcurly]

Originally posted by AKIron
I don't think that any of the other "upper primates" have constitutions or marriage. Heck, they don't even pay taxes. We are so oppressed.

Don't know about the primates, but many animals mate for life.  What's even better, they don't cheat on their mate.

curly

[Munkii]

Originally posted by Martlet
Who knows.  If enough people believe that it contributes to the moral decline of their community, they'll support the ban.

I realize your generalizing when you made this statement, but I honestly don't understand how people could be that uninformed.  By allowing same-sex marriage they don't contribute to the decline in morals.  Gays are already living together and porkin sphincter in their bedrooms.  All they want is the ability to get recognized by the law to recieve the marriage benefits.  By giving gays equal rights under the laws there is no moral decline, just an increase in personal freedom, which can only be viewed as a good thing.

I'm not even for laws that allow same-sex marriages.  I'm for revising current laws to not include a clause that specifies gender when talking about marriage.  If a church doesn't want to recognize gay marriage, it doesn't have to.  It's a private organization that is privately operated.  The government is supposed to be representative of the people, you know the whole "for the people by the people" thing.  By denying the rights to equal treatment, gays are no longer people.  

The reason some people want to ban Gay Marriage is because they see it as an immoral act like Theft, Rape, murder...

This was posted by lasersailor, but I didn't add it in.  The reason those are laws are not because of the morality of the issue, they are laws because they are property rights issues.  Gay marriage is about property rights, but its about the restriction of property rights.  Legitamite goverments are not setup by the people to restrict, but to help preserve and protect property rights.

Most laws by this definition are already impedeing upon personal freedoms, (i.e. prohibition, prostitution)

[Yeager]

Yes torque you are correct.  Inside the chest of every human being beats the heart of a viscious uncaring instinctive blood thirsty animal.  What usually seperates humans from animals is the way we treat each other, or try to, with love, respect and understanding.  

I believe the human desire for the answer to the question of "who am I and why am I here" is a desire unique only to humans and suggests the possibility, damned near gaurantees that fact that a fundamental and irreconcilable difference between apes and humans exists and always has existed.  I dont necessarily believe in a Christian God but I believe that my life will be a constant journey looking for and trying to understand God.  

Perhaps you are just an evolved ape, or a weak excuse of one, that has no greater purpose than eating, defacating, ejaculating and sleeping, but I prefer to think of myself as something with potentiol far beyond what the animal in me can accomplish.