Plane Icons

[Hristo]

So far here are idea I find very good (in my opinion only, though(:

1. Icon delay when switching views. The delay is 0.1 second per 100 yards.

2. Range bar indicator instead of numbers

3. No plane type indicator.

4. Icon below the plane.

[juzz]

Hristo - sounds good to me   Except 3. - I suggest we dump range indicators altogether.

Since AH is totally 3D, it can scale the gunsight .bmp displayed on the screen in real time. So it seems to me it would be easy to implement .range(yards) and .span(feet) commands that scale the gunsight just like a real WW2 vintage reflector sight does. (NB: The gunsight code has to be "fixed" so it displays like a real reflector sight, ie: infinite focus.)

Then we will need a "firing range" that points the plane at a wall thats marked with a width bar(for target wingspan) and at a known distance from it(target range), so we can calibrate our custom gunsights. Eg: .gunscale (percent)

Then I suppose the latewar Allied stuff will have to get those fancy gyro sights...  

[This message has been edited by juzz (edited 01-04-2000).]

[Hristo]

Good ideas, Juzz. I actually wanted to suggest no range indicators at all, but that might be just too big step from current state of the sim. Bar indicator might do for now.

And yes, give the opportunists gyro gunsights. Rall was right about them  

[juzz]

Oops - forgot one more thing.

No tracer/tracer ratios option. If the gunsight system is made more realistic as the main aiming device, an option to have no tracers/less tracers would be nice.

The only catch would be the infinite amount of whining from players shot down without seeing the enemy shooting at them. "I didn't even see the Fw190 on my 6 shooting at me, then my wing fell off! What's up with that!" etc etc...  

Hristo: what did Rall say?

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When the light was right it was actually possible to see the 30mm(1.18ins) shells in flight. - Heinrich Beauvais(Test Pilots, W.Späte).

[StarKnite]

Hi gang! I was kinda thinking about these icons too and here's a couple of ideas I think would work.. well.. "ok" anyway. hehehe

#1. No more distance indication on icon.

#2. Make the Green/Red icon, not a word above, or below the plane, but make it a translucent outline of the plane. Example, if  you follow an aircraft up through a cloud, as the enemy enters the cloud his "indicator" turns a light pink, because of the white clouds, then back to red outside of the clouds. If the icon is made to be an OUTLINE instead of a "designation", it will not clutter the screen with "P51 1.3K, SPIT 2.5K"  etc.

#3. Have the "F/F" outline around the plane fade with distance. Within 8k it is a VERY light pink (probably unnoticable), within 4k it's a nominal red, and within 1.5k is a BRIGHT red.

#4. I like the idea of a delay to getting IFF code, how about something more like .05 seconds per 100meters? That way it's only half a second. At a full second/1k, an aircraft could probably close quicker in a close fight than recognizing F/F.

Just some random ideas :-)

[ra]

Fellas, we need range icons.  When you are bouncing an enemy plane below you he is often just a blur, depending upon the background color and his plane color.  And I don't mean just a plane that's 10k below, I mean even a plan thats 2k below.  Next time you're 2k above a Niki, turn off icons and try to BnZ him.  You'll see how just poorly this modern miracle of 3d graphics can simulate the real world.  

In WB when icons were turned off in the HA, the fighting tactics became very dweeby.  People often chose to fly the plane that's hardest to see from up close, like a Yak or P39.  Then they fly around on the deck semi-invisible and wait to bounce the enemy from BELOW, diving back down to the deck after the bounce, sort of inverse BnZ.  A very dweeby unrealistic tactic, but one that works with no icons.  Also, real BnZ becomes almost impossible, so the fight becomes a very tight furball, everybody trying to stay close to the enemy so as not to lose sight of him.

I see no problem with reducing the distance at which icons appear, maybe 1 mile would be good, IMHO.

--ra--

[Dingy]

 

1. Icon delay when switching views. The delay is 0.1 second per 100 yards.

I like this idea also.  

 

2. Range bar indicator instead of numbers

Could give or take on this one.  I really dont know what advantage the range numbers give that the range bar wouldnt give me as well.

 

3. No plane type indicator.

I REALLY like this one.  Most of the plane types are already discernable by their unique colors.  Might make things a bit more interesting.

 

4. Icon below the plane.

Dont like this one and heres why: If I am not mistaking, by flying low on the deck, the current graphics engine will block out any text that underneath the plane.  Try this....find a plane that is low on the deck and then look at it as you roll inverted.  Text disappears dont it?  If you can do this without enabling goons or buffs to fly low thus blotting out their range and type signatures, go for it.  Otherwise, I say no.

-Ding

-Ding

[TT]

FWIW. I like them the way they are.

[Hangtime]

Excellent comments! I suspect tho that if the icon system was completely customizable what most flyers would select is what we have right now.

I like the 'display bottom' option.. execpt for the icon vanishing as Dingy pointed out.. if i'm the hunter. If i was the hunted; well hell yes! Gimme the bottom Icon!  

Frankly; I've become so used to switching from plane type to name for friendlies to update my SA and as a result I have become dependent on this new feature to establish my tactics & strategy going into and during big furballs that NOT having it would really disrupt my game.

Another good indicator of just how poorly our monitors emulate real life view recognition.. I know most WWII planes from any of their three views with almost 100 consistency.. and can identify 'em with absolute certainty till I get in the sim. Then I look over at Dingy; D2 out and can't tell what he's flyin till I switch the icons. Yet I can clearly identify general aviation and military types easily at 4 times that range in real life.

Yep, I think type icons are critical to gameplay but would not mind having the range for identity reduced to about half the range they are now.

I also agree that the size of the icon should be reduced.. but suspect again that this is a playability issue.. some poor joker with 1024 rez on a 14" monitor will not be able to read the icons at all if they were smaller.

All in all; a significant change in Icon structure would result in as much disruption as a flight model change. After 4 years of brand W flight; the icons here seem "right" but I realize thats just because it's what I'm used too. Fading Icons; range bars; icon placement options and reduced plane type range for enema all sound good tho; and giving it a try while in beta is the time to do it!

Great posts! Enjoyed this thread!

Hang




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PALE HORSES
"I looked, and behold; a Pale Horse, and it's riders name was Death, and Hell followed with him" Rev 6.8

[Mr.ED]

I was flyin' co-alt to some clouds a few days ago, and saw red flashing inside them, well 2 rook Spits were hiding in or a little above the cover. I would have NEVER seen those planes if not for the icons.

Mr.ED
Pony Pilot
Knight

[MarkVZ]

But in real life would you have been able to see those planes in the clouds?  Most likely not.  I would love to use the clouds to my tactical advantage but icons give me away, so theres no point to even having the clouds to hide in.  A C47 on the deck should be able to take advantage of it's green color to stay out of the eyes of fighter pilots, just as a spitfire with it's cammo should.  These icons are like hunting deer with a big orange flag on them.  (Fly a C47 and you can feel like the deer   )  I think a SMALLER team icon that turns on at current range, then distance that turns on at 5k or so, then aircraft type that turns on at 2.0 and below would be a good way to do it.  This way you will only be able to tell aircraft type AFTER you've engaged it.  Like I stated in earlier posts, being able to chose the opponent who is flying an inferior plane to you is unrealistic and I would not mind seeing it go.

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Mark VanZwoll
33rd Strike Group

[dotsie]

I asked HT were they planning a new approach to the problem of icons (and it is a problem). He said no, but was thinking about playing with dist. it becomes visable at.

Dotsie.

[hblair]

I am one of those wild eyed idiots who thinks long range icons suck.  

With a true Axis vs. Allied Historical Arena icons could be reduced/dropped. I know this is such a radical idea that people will scream and panic over it. Of course they will say "it won't work". I've also done it in the WB HA and sorry, but it does work, you just have to have a clue and can't be runnin lo res with a 13 inch monitor  

Now if you will excuse me,
<submerges self in creek and breathes through straw awaiting flashover>

[WOOD1]

I agree that we need something to identify which team one is on, but MarkVZ made a good point about spotting a low dot.  Most people don't want to give up alt needlessly, immediately knowing what a bogey is makes the decision very easy. Someone else mentioned icons that fade, how about just a colored dot?  If they can make it fade, that would be better.  Just my thought, I don't want to post too much, at my age I like being called  "junior" again.
WOOD1

 

[Vermillion]

hmmmm.... I keep seeing people say that the settings in WB's "Historical Arena" works?

Sure it works if you think 30 people on a good night in primetime, furballing low between two bases is what everyone else calls "works".

Sorry dont' want to start a flame war, but the numbers say that the WB's HA is a dismal failure and has never appealed to more than a small fraction of a fraction of the player base.

Personally, I prefer the WB's SL icon settings (a compromise between the two camps).



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Vermillion
WB's: (verm--), **MOL**, Men of Leisure,
"Real men fly Radials, Nancy Boys fly Spitfires "