Plane Icons

[MarkVZ]

  Something that I find most unrealistic about most flight sims is the icons above the planes.  An important task of a combat pilot was identifying the type of aircraft spotted and his direction and attitude. If im headed straight for another aircraft in real life, I would have no way of knowing he's a 190 or a P51 or a 109 until he was in my face, not at a range of 8 thousand feet. (or whatever unit is used to measure distance in AH)  Since both teams fly all nationalities of aircraft, there always has to be an identifier of which team the aircraft is flying for.  In my opinion, we should cut out the distance and plane type from the icons.  Would it make things a bit tougher for some of us?  Sure, but arent we out for realism as a true combat simulator?   In real life a combat pilot could not pick and chose among the specks in the sky for the one he has superiority over, as we can in Aces High.  They also could not instantly tell the direction of an aircraft as we can use our distance icons to see.  But again, since we fly all sorts of nationalities of aircraft on both sides, we would still need a team color icon.  Maybe a red icon of the con's team that shows up at the distance that the current icons turn on?  I know this probably sounds crazy to most people accustomed to today's combat sims, but I feel that the current icon system is very unrealistic and arcade-like.  Heck having no plane type icon may even get newbies to learn what differs between the aircraft, and the distinguishing features each posesses.  If I'm not mistaken, WWII combat pilots were taught the distinguishing features between different aircraft through use of models and cards. A C47 on the deck should not have it's type given away to a fighter that just sees it as a speck, just to be given the con's first priority.  After all, at that range it could be almost anything.  The element of surprise is gone with icons that give away aircraft type and distance, and it's something i'd like to see changed in the future.

Just a thought...      

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Mark VanZwoll
33rd Strike Group

[SC-Sp00k]

There is a online sim out where the icons fade as distance increases and vice versa

It is possibly the best thing about the sim and has had many favourable critiques.

I think this is the way to go and if possible would be a great facet if a similar design was implemented into AH



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SC-Sp00k
Sqn Ldr
SSC
http://www.picknowl.com.au/homepages/oneshot/main.htm
**Its not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog.**
Skeleton Crew

[Jekyll]

Mark, it's not just that we have icons, its the information displayed by the icons which is also a cause of trouble.

If the USAF could somehow get hold of a radar which displays the info the AH system models, they'd put it on every fighter they have.

A perfect, unjammable, spherical radar which sees in all directions and provides completely accurate data on aircraft type and closure rate?

With the current system you can have a con 3000yds behind you, take a 2 second glance, and not only tell if he's gaining on you, but exactly how fast he's gaining.  In RL, how long do you think you would have to stare at a 35 foot wingspan aircraft at a distance of 3000yds to tell if it was coming closer to you, and by how much?

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C.O. Phoenix Squadron
www.users.bigpond.com/afinlayson/index.htm
'feel the heat .......'

[Westy]

No icons works only in a setting where a certain aircraft is flown only by a certain country. It cxannot be open melee where any plane can meet any plane. Otherwise there will be a hell of alot of friendly fire problems.
 
-Westy

[ra]

No icons doesn't work, it has been tried in WB.  Dark planes against a dark background are impossible to see even from very close distances.  The current state of computer graphics  does a poor job of simulating a realistic field of view, objects are too small and have too little contrast.  We are all flying around with 20/400 eyesight, so icons are necessary to fill in the information we can't get from our monitors.  
If you like, try using alt-I to turn off icons and watch the planes nearby disappear.

Two things I think could improve icons:

1) put the icon below the airplane instead of above it where it is too easily used in deflection shooting.  I bet I get half my pings while shooting at the icon of a plane which is below my nose in a tight turn.  This will also prevent planes flying below a ridge line from being seen because of their icon.

2) put a time delay on icons.  When you switch from one view to another, the icons in the new view would not display until a delay of .1 seconds per 100 yards.  So a plane 1000 yards away would not have an icon for the 1st second, 2000 yards away 2 seconds, etc.  This would better simulate the time a pilot would require to judge a plane's type, distance, and closing speed.  Right now, a pilot can scan around him in 2 seconds and collect range info of every plane around, making SA too easy.

The no-icons debate will never end, but until we are all using hi-rez VR goggles we'll need icons or we'll be flying like Mr. Magoo.


--ra--

[MarkVZ]

 

No icons works only in a setting where a certain aircraft is flown only by a certain country. It cxannot be open melee where any plane can meet any plane. Otherwise there will be a hell of alot of friendly fire problems.

This is why I said that we should just keep an indicator of what team the aircraft is on.  This would turn on at the same range (or less I'd hope) that the standard icons turn on at, except it would not contain the aircraft type and distance.  I have no problem seeing the dots against the ground or in the air in 800*600 resolution.  I just think that instantly knowing the aircraft type and distance is very unrealistic for a WWII combat sim, and wouldn't mind seeing the distance and aircraft type icons removed.

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Mark VanZwoll
33rd Strike Group

[Hristo]

Excellent points, ra, I fully agree.

Also, I agree with mark. How about country icon only ? Maybe a plane icon at 1000 yards and less.

Range indicator? Better not.

[Wardog]

I think that in a HA setting Icons can appear at 2.0 by the time you this close your almost allway gona end up engaging the target. This should be the same for all Icons.

This works well in WBs HA arena setup.

[MarkVZ]

Wardog, I think that would be a good comprimise, icons that turn on at a much reduced range.  Maybe team icons that turn on at current range, then distance and acft icons that turn on at 2.0 or below?  I think that would put alot more realism into the game.

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Mark VanZwoll
33rd Strike Group

[Westy]

How about they use a smaller font, aircraft type only and make the icon at least semi-transparant?

I'm all for none to be honest ...with of course country specific aircraft.
But I know and realise monitors (size as wel as DPI) and vid cards are all not up to the task at this time.

 -Westy

[v355_Spike]

Ditto MarkVZ, your compromize would be perty cool.

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SgtSpike
v355 Fighter Group
Steeple Morden Strafers

[Marco]

Hi all, this is my first post on AH BB, be patient with my english, but this topic just induce me to say something about...

I agree with your statements, MarkVZ, no more a/c type and distance on icons for me.
Moreover, IMHO present identifiers are too big, so when I fly in crowded sky, I see a lot of red and green icons, labels and numbers, instead of planes! I find this very annoying (BTW, is in AH possible to turn off icons?).
I know, it's unthinkable to dogfight without some sort of Friendly-Or-Foe identifier, because screen resolution is far from real life and it's really difficult to identify by shape a plane that's not flying very close to us, but on the other hand we can use zoom to help us in such case.
So, a little red or green (why 2 colors for 3 countries?) simbol, like a dot or a square, near the plane could be sufficient.
An improvement to this solution can be a fading icon, due to the distance from us and the observed plane (as Sp00k suggests) and, for friendly planes only, a same effect on pilot ID, starting at very low distance ( it's more realistic to identify first the plane and then the pilot).

--Grifo--

[max621]

Did they possibly have IFF(Identiy Freindly or Foe right??) during ww2? If so than icons could be removed and just use a manual IFF system to find out who's side that plane is on. As for the distance and type, that's for you to figure out.
My dos centos  

[BBGunn]

I used to fly a sim in which the AC where paintable.  At the very least both wings(top and bottom) and the whole tail section would have to be bright red for proper ID.  More frequently the whole AC was painted a bright color to provide easier identification.  I never liked icons either- but it seems to me it's either icons or a flying circus of bright green or red or whatever AC.

[Maniac]

Atleast remove the range indicators. . .

// -nr-1-