Coral Sea

[storch]

you could use the A6M5 as opposed to the 2 and that would go a long way to even up the aircraft situation.  The 2 is all but useless but in the 5 a good fight could be put up and could be an effective escort for the japanese bombers.  just a thought.  I don't need any flames from the toxic twins.

[Arlo]

Originally posted by Batz

Then add in the US attack planes are faster and way better armed. Would you rather chase down a TBM is an A6M2 or a Kate in an F4F? There would very few on the Japanese side who would even bother flying the Kate or Val

"Chasing the American attack planes" isn't a very good tactic no matter what terrain (or even planeset) is used, Batz. It'll all be decided, more or less, by numbers at any given instance anyhow. There's always players who just say "f it" and don't fly setups (don't even stick their head in one for a week because they made up their mind that it wouldn't be fun based on their own limitations on how to have fun just from reading the forum).

Originally posted by Batz

My point about ack is that the CVs are easy to suicide. There's 2 ways to deal with this.

1. Increase CV hardness - This hurts the Japanese side because they will have fewer players and their attack planes are slow and for the most part unarmed. Increasing CV hardness will almost make the US CVs unkillable.

2. Increase the ack - Suiciders wont care about ack, after all they are suiciders. But ack will be used as shield and folks hiding in it rather fighting it out.

No need for either, Batz.

Hell ... suiciders will be suiciders. Fleets will sink. I believe they can still be turned and their guns can still be fired. I single handedly saved a fleet from sinking for almost an hour one night (a paper one at that).

Set respawn at 5 minutes. Or two. This wouldn't be a territory grab map. Sinking the fleets is the goal. And Kates and Vals do a great job at it. I've seen it.

Ack hugging? Name one single map where it doesn't happen in the CT?

Originally posted by Batz

Are you kidding me? Do I need to quote your very own complaints about the Okinawa fleet spawns being in BFE? Folks complained then what would be different this time?

Quote away. I knew you'd be dying to the moment you read this. But you know as well as I do that this is an entirely different case with both sides on a completely even footing terrain and hardness wise (unlike the previous setup you're referencing). One side COULDN'T be hardened and the other weakened. Right? Both sides are forced to seek and sink. Right? Of course, you'll focus on the attack plane disparity, if nothing else.

Besides, my comments were focused at one of the goals of that setup being - keeping the F4U out of play as much as possible via paper fleets and distant respawns. How in the world is that a factor in THIS setup?

But to quote a good AH buddy of mine ....

"Screw balance .. let's fly!"

Originally posted by Batz

You could make it work as long as a CM is on hand to monitor game play. He would need to jump the fleets, reduce CV rebuild time etc... But how much fun would it be compared to just running Okinawa? Or the Slot? Or even the Midway event map?

You can make it work without. What's wrong with a modified Coral Sea map that has fortified spawnpoints? And you mention comparisons to other maps while ignoring the obvious. A Coral Sea setup focuses on nothing but a carrier battle. Mobility, fleet strikes. NO LAND GRAB.

Originally posted by Batz

Well first its not much of a "new Idea", more like "re-hashing an old one". Like killshooter.

No ... not like killshooter. Kill shooter has 2 options: off or on. All the ideas I mentioned I've yet to see from anyone (though that may be just because I haven't read every idea posted here from day one). They are all in direct response to your reasons why this can't work. Have they been tried? Even considered before I posted them? Gimme a break.

Originally posted by Batz

This map has been around for years. The one thing that completely unbalances a set up like this is how do deal with those who would suicide rather then fight? I haven't heard any "new ideas" on how to adjust to that fact. You could try it and hope it doesn’t turn out like my "glass half empty" prediction.

That's the whole point about looking at things differently Batz and not dismissing other's suggestions out of hand because "you've been there, done that and it doesn't work."

[Arlo]

Originally posted by storch
you could use the A6M5 as opposed to the 2 and that would go a long way to even up the aircraft situation.  The 2 is all but useless but in the 5 a good fight could be put up and could be an effective escort for the japanese bombers.  just a thought.  I don't need any flames from the toxic twins.

Sure. A6M5 to make up for the overwhelming Allied attack plane advantage.

Now ... a quick comment, Storcheena, then you can cry all ya want about it. If all you're gonna do is run to the authorities and cry everytime you're made fun of then you really shouldn't be baiting for it.

That's your common sense advice for the day.

[gear]

For the record "I hate no person "(well maybee the Intrenal revenue service lol) i was not raised that way OK.
 
 As for the carrier battle... is there a way to have the CV's respawn at random locations? And how about making one carrier on each side so that it would be almost un sinkable,that way there would be a platform for those who want to furball.Now this is just an idea kick it around maybee give it a tweek here and there.

[Arlo]

Have all the fleets spawn at an atol covered with friendly ack and aaa (no actual "base" needed per say) while their base is still way off the map.

[Arlo]

Originally posted by gear
For the record "I hate no person "(well maybee the Intrenal revenue service lol) i was not raised that way OK.
 

I don't doubt that for a second. I don't think it's hate. I think it's a despirate desire for attention.

[gear]

Not really,  I get all the attention I need.

[Arlo]

Didn't say "need" .... said "desire."

P.S. Your Nazi swastika is facing the right way again. You didn't "rember" to reverse it thereby removing all possible onus this time.

[gear]

Well then I get all that I desire:aok

[Arlo]

Sure ya do.

[storch]

there you go, can't you just leave things be??

[Slash27]

So now you're the voice of reason?

[Arlo]

Originally posted by storch
there you go, can't you just leave things be??

Are you addressing me?

[Grits]

Nazi swastika

By the power vested in me, I now declare this horse dead, everyone stop beating it.

You may now continue with the previously scheduled Coral Sea discussion.
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I have some ideas for a Coral Sea setup:

1. Restructure fleets so that only CV's and DD's are in them. This will stop "suicide fleets". If there are no CA's in the fleets then they will be kept at a decent distance from enema fleets since there is no reason to get them too close.

2. If it is to be '42, DO NOT replace the A6M2 with the A6M5. That is not the correct plane, and should not be there, and I say this as someone who will likely be Axis most of the week. The A6M2 is not the best buff killer, but it can get the job done just fine.

3. If it is to be Coral Sea, the IJN will have 3 CV's (really it was 2 Fleet CV's and a small CVL) to the USN's 2 Fleet CV's. The two USN CV's should be put in one TF (TF17) and the IJN CV's should be put in two TF (Shoho in one, and Shokaku and Zuikaku in a second). The effect of this is, if you find the USN CV's you've found them all, if you find an IJN TF you have only found part of them.

4. Ack should probably be set pretty high, it should take many attack planes to kill a CV, even if they suicide (which at this point in the war thats about what a torpedo attack was). Look at the losses suffered on both sides in their attack squadrons, they were horrific.

5. Enable C-47s from "land" bases to be used as "patrol" planes. Imagine how useful a C-47 at a safe altitude would be for scouring the sea for fleets. Then once you found it, they would have the fuel range to stay on station and give enema fleet locations.

6. CV fleets should have a hardness set to a level that will require...oh...4-6 hits by the biggest bombs the attack planes can carry. This way, only a well planned and coordinated attack will be sucessful, just as back then, peacemeal attacks wont work.

I have my doubts that a CV only setup can work, but I am willing to give it a try.

[Arlo]

I have some ideas for a Coral Sea setup:

1. Restructure fleets so that only CV's and DD's are in them. This will stop "suicide fleets". If there are no CA's in the fleets then they will be kept at a decent distance from enema fleets since there is no reason to get them too close.

Sounds good to me.

2. If it is to be '42, DO NOT replace the A6M2 with the A6M5. That is not the correct plane, and should not be there, and I say this as someone who will likely be Axis most of the week. The A6M2 is not the best buff killer, but it can get the job done just fine.

Neh. We can fudge it a little. The only TBM available is a late war variant. Sub the 5s for the 2. Sub the FM2 for the F4F-4.

3. If it is to be Coral Sea, the IJN will have 3 CV's (really it was 2 Fleet CV's and a small CVL) to the USN's 2 Fleet CV's. The two USN CV's should be put in one TF (TF17) and the IJN CV's should be put in two TF (Shoho in one, and Shokaku and Zuikaku in a second). The effect of this is, if you find the USN CV's you've found them all, if you find an IJN TF you have only found part of them.

Agreed.

4. Ack should probably be set pretty high, it should take many attack planes to kill a CV, even if they suicide (which at this point in the war thats about what a torpedo attack was). Look at the losses suffered on both sides in their attack squadrons, they were horrific.

Don't agree just because the CT is a low population arena and most of the pilots will want to fly fighters. You'll never get the large attack force needed unless everyone on one side flys an attack plane.

5. Enable C-47s from "land" bases to be used as "patrol" planes. Imagine how useful a C-47 at a safe altitude would be for scouring the sea for fleets. Then once you found it, they would have the fuel range to stay on station and give enema fleet locations.

No need. Bases should stay offmap (with associated "armed atols" on map for spawnpoints). Carrier based planes can scout. Set fuelburn at 1 or 1.2

6. CV fleets should have a hardness set to a level that will require...oh...4-6 hits by the biggest bombs the attack planes can carry. This way, only a well planned and coordinated attack will be sucessful, just as back then, peacemeal attacks wont work.

CVs and other ships should be set at "MA" hardness. Turn them - shoot the guns ... leave the hardness setting to norm.

Swastikas suck.