Author Topic: Should Cali Tax the Indian Casinos? (Read 1502 times)

lazs2 · « **Reply #75 on:** April 29, 2004, 10:37:11 AM »

six... I don't know if I should take back my statement about you being "a bright lad" or simply conclude that you are terminaly naive... yes... the winners are required to report their winnings and yes... it is tax evasion to not but... people don't pay their taxes if they can evade em with no chance of being caught.

By your logic... there should be no records kept of earnings or capital gains... the people would just be honest and report it.

No... they set the limit at 2000 (or whatever) for a reason... first and formost... it would be allmost impossible to track every little win of 10$ till it aded up to 2000... it would be a staggering task.. it would cost the casino and the government more than it is worth.

Look... you wussy little bleeding hearts have to realize... I don't want more taxes...Indian casinos are increasing my taxes because I am paying for what they are not... I am paying for the mess they make... And.. what people approved was a few tiltups or mobile buildings with....

BINGO... who could ask them to pay taxes on harmless games like bingo? Hell... churches do it all the time... it's all for a good cause and doesn't hurt anyone right?

Of course but... that was then... this is now. Now it is Guido running a multi billion dollar a year fleecing operation based on an illegal vice that is sucking the resources out of the state they are in... It is branching out further every day...

every solution for making them pay for the damage they do is much more cumbersome and unfair than than simply using the tax base system that is allready in place.

lazs

lazs2 · « **Reply #76 on:** April 29, 2004, 10:53:15 AM »

airhead... we are discussing here if they should be taxed not how it came about that they weren't... I am glad the grey one is gone too... just like everyone else.

This is a simple thing. It will be voted on. At the point where it was a few buildings with people playing bingo and very little damage done and in infrastructue and human waste due to addiction... I myself would have voted to not tax em... like a church.. a little bingo for the good of the poor..

Now... we are in a multi multi billion dollar vice operation run by outside mob gaming people.. the operations are not distiguisable from nevada style gambling in any way except... Nevada gambling pays it's way and indian gambling doesn't.

When you ask me if a multi billion dollar vice should go untaxed and if I will be willing to absorb the cost by an increase in my taxes... well... then boyo... you are talking a different kettle of salmon.

But... we will see.. if the people don't feel the bite they won't vote to make the indians pay their share... if the bite is felt then they will..

I am simply saying that they have now gotten big enough that they need to ease my burden a little not the other way around.

lazs

Chairboy · « **Reply #77 on:** April 29, 2004, 11:25:02 AM »

Lasz2, you still haven't said how your tax money is being spent to support the casinos. The closest you've come is making vaguely menacing references to the evils of gambling.

Please clarify?

lazs2 · « **Reply #78 on:** April 29, 2004, 11:39:37 AM »

chair... all vices cause human suffering and expense. Broken families the works from addiction.. Most places the casinos operate were never intended to have the kind of poulation traffic they are getting.. the roads and infrastructure are taking a beating...

while they police themselves... they do not have higway patrols or local police to make up for the ltraffic control and increased crime from so many people in one area that were never there before.

Now... by contrast... I am paying taxes but my load on the infrastructure is minute. I am paying for police and infrastructure and addicts even tho I don't have anything to do with crime increases or addiction.

If they don't pay taxes then why should I? Or, more to the point... if I have to pay taxes then why don't they?

They would simply be paying taxes on what they fleece out of the sheep like any other casino. They are enjoying all the protection and infrastructure but not paying a tax on the profit they earn on their multi billion dollar operation... How is that right? More... they are having their vice protected by making competition illegal... I would say that having that much of an advantage is advantage enough.

Would you prefer that we allow nevada gamers to open casinos to compete with them and offer low tax rates to nevada gamers? I am sure the Nevada casinos would jump on that and even tho we got smaller taxes it would be better than nothing.

lazs

Chairboy · « **Reply #79 on:** April 29, 2004, 01:39:17 PM »

Isn't alcohol responsible for a lot more death, heartbreak, and broken families then gambling? Between drunk drivers, drunken wife beaters, health problems, I imagine alcohol does a LOT more damage then any indian casino, but a search of the message boards doesn't show you advocating a return to prohibition.

Would you care to take this opportunity to expound on the subject?

lazs2 · « **Reply #80 on:** April 30, 2004, 09:58:08 AM »

you are correct and... booze is one of the most heavily taxed vices. It is also illegal to drive under the influence or be drunk in public... My stance is... let everone do as many drugs as they want but if they kill someone in a car under the influence of even pot... it is murder... premeditated most likely...

Now... I am not against gambling and casinos either... well... I have no interest in them in any case but.... I am against multi billion dollar casino bussiness costing me money.

I would not be oppossed to letting the nevada gambling groups bid on building casinos here. They would be given legal status for a fee (tax)... even if it were small.... it would be better than the no competition indian ones we have now. I believe their italians could woop the indians italians.

Or, are you against competition?

To get this straight... I don't care about indians... I wasn't here when we won the indian wars.. I think for the most part they were blodthirsty torturing savages that only managed to not destroy the country (environment) they lived in because of the simple fact that they were so backward that they had high mortality rates... but...

I was born here and it is my country and my country made a treaty with em... the treaty may allow for their ancient rite of slot machine use but it in no way exempts them from income taxes... or "fees" "tolls" call it what you will.

The "advantage" that they have is huge... they are the gambling monopoly and it is making them billions. They get to do what no one else in the state they are in can do and... make a huge profit off it.

I say if we have casinos in California then we should at least make some money off em or.... at the very least... not have em cost me money. We can let the indians have our legal protection and tax em or... we can allow competion and get money from their competitors.

wanna bet how the indians would vote?

lazs

Airhead · « **Reply #81 on:** April 30, 2004, 10:15:25 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by lazs2

I was born here and it is my country and my country made a treaty with em... the treaty may allow for their ancient rite of slot machine use but it in no way exempts them from income taxes... or "fees" "tolls" call it what you will.

lazs

Yes, the treaty most Indians signed with the Gov't. DOES exempt them from State taxes, fees, tolls or whatever- in fact a new rule exempts California Indians from car registration if their car is driven "primarily" on Indian land.

Fair? No, but all the propisitions in the world, all the initiatives in the world and all the bold statements by California politicians can't change the fact it's THEIR land, they can do what they want on it in accordance with Federal laws, and there's not a damn thing we can do about it. That "fair tax" initiative will be struck down- the only way the State will get Indian casino money is if the Indians voluntarily give it to the State.

lazs2 · « **Reply #82 on:** April 30, 2004, 10:23:30 AM »

exactly airhead... they own the land but not the land around it. We could toll em tax em whatever em to death or....

We could allow competition... which is probly what will happen in any case unless we start makeing some money off em.

You are absolutely correct about the voluntary part... If they know what is good for em... they will continue their sweetheart deal with California and "voluntarily" pay taxes in order to keep us from runnig em out of bussiness and dealing with the itallians direct.. we would simply cut out the middle man....

lazs

Airhead · « **Reply #83 on:** April 30, 2004, 10:32:40 AM »

Don't forget who the largest political contributors in the State are. BTW, you should do a run up to Lincoln to Thunder Valley Casino. They have a great buffet.

Sixpence · « **Reply #84 on:** April 30, 2004, 10:45:00 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by lazs2
By your logic... there should be no records kept of earnings or capital gains... the people would just be honest and report it.

Here you do not have to sign your scratch ticket up to 500 dollars, I can't tell you how many people hit multiple times and do not report it. So do I want them to be hunted down because they are not paying their share? No, God bless them!!

If you tax them they will just take it out of the winnings, so the money that goes into the people's hands will go into government bureaucracy instead.

Fishu · « **Reply #85 on:** April 30, 2004, 05:10:58 PM »

Start charging toll fees from people going into indian areas.

Chairboy · « **Reply #86 on:** April 30, 2004, 05:18:30 PM »

What if they're going there for a show, ala Wayne Newton style?

Guilty until proven innocent?

It seems like some of y'all are trying to solve something that isn't a problem.

lazs2 · « **Reply #87 on:** April 30, 2004, 06:42:39 PM »

It isn't a problem for me... Like I said... either let everyone open casinos and get the money from them when they run the indians out of bussiness or don't tax me anymore either. Or... ask the indians to pay what every other casino in the world pays and continue to protect them from competition... The only "problem" is the 2 billion a year that in taxes that is lost to the big indian vice giveaway... That is 2 billion that the gavernment makes up from.... me and you. I call it a problem...

Bet they would choose the latter over all other propossals offered so far... It still isn't fair to other gambling syndicates but hey... it's still more fair to us than simply eating the loss.

airhead.. naa... don't really do casinos unless I am just about forced too. You know.. with a big group that wants to see a show or go out to eat and then.. only in reno or vegas.. no interest in indian casinos.

lazs