Rumsfeld doing a superb job ?

[Gunslinger]

Originally posted by Duedel
I'm not sure if u really realize the importance. There are many islamic people that look at the USA as an occupying force. They dont see the USA as a liberator and now this. Per example for a moslem to undress oneself in front of a woman is a very bad sin. No everyone can see it in the TV how the occupying forces not only put the prisoners down but rather show no respect for the whole religion and its not a matter of a few idiotic soldiers. Its seams to be a matter of ur whole government (the british included).
Its to late to leave Iraq but a better planned after war era would have prevented ur country from many problems. The USA is acting like a like a bull in a china shop.

SO what would you recommend the US do about the current situation.  I fully realize the muslum view of the US.  That's a cutlural veiw and and the sooner people realize they arnt going to change it the better the world is going to be.  

BTW I saw a guy on TV levitate himself once over the grand canyon.  I also saw a guy in a spider costume that shot webs from his arms and swung from buildings.

Let me guess lets just apease all the terrorists in the world all at once from some UN slush fund.  Do you think that's going to stop terrorism?

[Duedel]

Originally posted by Gunslinger
SO what would you recommend the US do about the current situation.  I fully realize the muslum view of the US.  That's a cutlural veiw and and the sooner people realize they arnt going to change it the better the world is going to be.  

BTW I saw a guy on TV levitate himself once over the grand canyon.  I also saw a guy in a spider costume that shot webs from his arms and swung from buildings.

Let me guess lets just apease all the terrorists in the world all at once from some UN slush fund.  Do you think that's going to stop terrorism?

Very interesting and very intellectual post. I really was asking me for a ms if i should ignore the idiotic part of ur post (thus the last 2 paragraphs) and give u an honest answer but i guess it would be forlorn hope.

[Gunslinger]

Just saw on the news:  "Palestinians vow revenge for abuse of Iraqi prisoners"

I don't thing those prisoners should have been "abused" even if they did blow up woman and children.

But does anyone else see the irony in this.  These same terrists that kidnap people....blow themselves up in crowded markets.....slit journalist's throats are complaining about this

All this goes to show for me is that the US is not perfect.  The US has done alot of good things in Iraq:

Over 400,000 kids have up-to-date immunizations.
* School attendance is up 80% from levels before the war.
* Over 1,500 schools have been renovated and rid of the weapons stored there so education can occur.
* The port of Uhm Qasar was renovated so grain can be off-loaded from ships faster.
* The country had its first 2 billion barrel export of oil in August.
* Over 4.5 million people have clean drinking water for the first time ever in Iraq.
* The country now receives 2 times the electrical power it did before the war.
* 100% of the hospitals are open and fully staffed, compared to 35% before the war.
* Elections are taking place in every major city, and city councils are in place.
* Sewer and water lines are installed in every major city.
* Over 60,000 police are patrolling the streets.
* Over 100,000 Iraqi civil defense police are securing the country.
* Over 80,000 Iraqi soldiers are patrolling the streets side by side with US soldiers.
* Over 400,000 people have telephones for the first time ever
* Students are taught field sanitation and hand washing techniques to prevent the spread of germs.
* An interim constitution has been signed.
* Girls are allowed to attend school.
* Textbooks that don't mention Saddam are in the schools for the first time in 30 years.

Those that commited vile acts will be punished.  What more does anyone want.....this is what I dont understand

[StabbyTheIcePic]

Originally posted by Gunslinger
Just saw on the news:  "Palestinians vow revenge for abuse of Iraqi prisoners"

I don't thing those prisoners should have been "abused" even if they did blow up woman and children.

But does anyone else see the irony in this.  These same terrists that kidnap people....blow themselves up in crowded markets.....slit journalist's throats are complaining about this

All this goes to show for me is that the US is not perfect.  The US has done alot of good things in Iraq:

Over 400,000 kids have up-to-date immunizations.
* School attendance is up 80% from levels before the war.
* Over 1,500 schools have been renovated and rid of the weapons stored there so education can occur.
* The port of Uhm Qasar was renovated so grain can be off-loaded from ships faster.
* The country had its first 2 billion barrel export of oil in August.
* Over 4.5 million people have clean drinking water for the first time ever in Iraq.
* The country now receives 2 times the electrical power it did before the war.
* 100% of the hospitals are open and fully staffed, compared to 35% before the war.
* Elections are taking place in every major city, and city councils are in place.
* Sewer and water lines are installed in every major city.
* Over 60,000 police are patrolling the streets.
* Over 100,000 Iraqi civil defense police are securing the country.
* Over 80,000 Iraqi soldiers are patrolling the streets side by side with US soldiers.
* Over 400,000 people have telephones for the first time ever
* Students are taught field sanitation and hand washing techniques to prevent the spread of germs.
* An interim constitution has been signed.
* Girls are allowed to attend school.
* Textbooks that don't mention Saddam are in the schools for the first time in 30 years.

Those that commited vile acts will be punished.  What more does anyone want.....this is what I dont understand

Does not take much for all this to go down the drain dosn't it?

[MJHerman]

Originally posted by Gunslinger
Just saw on the news:  "Palestinians vow revenge for abuse of Iraqi prisoners"

I don't thing those prisoners should have been "abused" even if they did blow up woman and children.

But does anyone else see the irony in this.  These same terrists that kidnap people....blow themselves up in crowded markets.....slit journalist's throats are complaining about this

All this goes to show for me is that the US is not perfect.  The US has done alot of good things in Iraq:

Over 400,000 kids have up-to-date immunizations.
* School attendance is up 80% from levels before the war.
* Over 1,500 schools have been renovated and rid of the weapons stored there so education can occur.
* The port of Uhm Qasar was renovated so grain can be off-loaded from ships faster.
* The country had its first 2 billion barrel export of oil in August.
* Over 4.5 million people have clean drinking water for the first time ever in Iraq.
* The country now receives 2 times the electrical power it did before the war.
* 100% of the hospitals are open and fully staffed, compared to 35% before the war.
* Elections are taking place in every major city, and city councils are in place.
* Sewer and water lines are installed in every major city.
* Over 60,000 police are patrolling the streets.
* Over 100,000 Iraqi civil defense police are securing the country.
* Over 80,000 Iraqi soldiers are patrolling the streets side by side with US soldiers.
* Over 400,000 people have telephones for the first time ever
* Students are taught field sanitation and hand washing techniques to prevent the spread of germs.
* An interim constitution has been signed.
* Girls are allowed to attend school.
* Textbooks that don't mention Saddam are in the schools for the first time in 30 years.

Those that commited vile acts will be punished.  What more does anyone want.....this is what I dont understand

They are complaining about it, if that's the right word, because the United States gave them a propaganda victory on a silver platter.

As to your list of good achievements, they are all, in fact, very good and I commend the U.S. for doing such good things in a very poor and desperate country.  What you don't understand, or fail to grasp, or just don't get, is that you don't need to convince your fellow Americans of the good that is being done, you need to convince the Muslim world.

[MJHerman]

Sorry...double posted.

[StabbyTheIcePic]

Originally posted by MJHerman
They are complaining about it, if that's the right word, because the United States gave them a propaganda victory on a silver platter.

As to your list of good achievements, they are all, in fact, very good and I commend the U.S. for doing such good things in a very poor and desperate country.  What you don't understand, or fail to grasp, or just don't get, is that you don't need to convince your fellow Americans of the good that is being done, you need to convince the Muslim world.

And in the muslim world they really do not care about things like education.

[MJHerman]

Originally posted by StabbyTheIcePic
And in the muslim world they really do not care about things like education.

And the source for such a generalization is?

Does that mean that their are no educated Muslims?  Do the doctors, lawyers and businesspeople throughout the Muslim world obtain their degrees from Crackerjack boxes?

How about Muslims who reside in North America?  Do they not care about education?  Or are they not part of "the muslim world"?

[midnight Target]

The really silly part is, we are treating the Al Quada and Taliban guys at Guantanamo better than we treated these Iraqis.

 AND these Iraqis are NOT the guys who are setting bombs and flying planes into buildings. In some cases they are in for stealing a car or looting a store.

[Gunslinger]

Originally posted by StabbyTheIcePic
And in the muslim world they really do not care about things like education.

I would say "Terrorists" don't care much about education rather than muslims

Terrorists (the majority just happend to be musims) whould just as soon blow up a school built by American soldiers filled with children.

AGAIN people say I dont get it but I DO!  This is not a scandel.  I will say this in plain english.  THIS IS BEING BLOWN OUT OF PORPORTION BY LIBRALS AND AMERICA HATERS TO UNDERMINE THE BUSH ADMIN AND THE EFFORTS IN IRAQ.  I have not seen or heard were these guys were put into excrutiating pain or killed.  I've heard of isolated incidents.....but more or less these guys were humiliated.  The worst crime here is that they alloud a camera in a prison were interrogations were taking place.

[StabbyTheIcePic]

Originally posted by Gunslinger  I have not seen or heard were these guys were put into excrutiating pain or killed.  I've heard of isolated incidents.....but more or less these guys were humiliated.  The worst crime here is that they alloud a camera in a prison were interrogations were taking place. [/B]

Are you ignoring the news? There have been murders, and red cross has been saying it was common place.

[Gunslinger]

Originally posted by StabbyTheIcePic
Are you ignoring the news? There have been murders, and red cross has been saying it was common place.

SHOW ME!  I've seen one report of a prisoner dieing in custody....other than that I dont see this as commonplace.

I'd be just slightly more outraged if this had happend to everday citizens off the street....I veiw these people as prisoners that have information.  I little force....sure.  I dont agree w/ what I saw in the pictures.....But I dont think this is a scandle.

If this had not been investigated.....SURE
If this had been covered up.............SURE
If there had been wide spread abuse torture and murder.....sure


I saw a coupld of naked guys getting mistreaded....and infront of a woman.  This aint right but its not a scandle.

The difference between us and The former regeim is we have rules.  We follow them ore pay the conciquences.  That's how things work.  Soldiers broke the rules.  The army announced an investigations.  People have been charged and questions LONG BEFOR ANY OF US SAW ANY OF THESE PICTURES

This is not a scandle.....this is librals and terrorists using this to further their political agenda.

[RedTop]

Your arguing bud to people that aren't going to change. This board is full of em.

Lib's and Muslims want an apology...I say NO...They didn't apologize for 4 dead americans being dragged and torn apart after being burned alive. No apologies.

I don't agree with what was done with the Iraqi prisoners. It's beneath the U.S. Armed forces as a whole and they perps. should be tried to the full letter of the UCMJ and Civilian law.

Your exactly correct IMO about this is purely blown up for political gain. IF ANYONE has doubts about that then just watch CSPAN while they were questioning Rummy.

Hillary Clinton , Ted "Hiccup" Kennedy , Robert Byrd , all 3 were purly trying to show rummy incompetant. They are using this for political gain and NOTHING else. Hillary Clinton is one of the Biggest liars I have ever heard.

She asked Rummy if he thought he could still do his job. He answered with a resounding yes. At the press media after the hearings she said he said he wasn't sure. Thats NOT what he said at ALL. SH is just a friggin liar.

Robert Byrd made the statement that Rummy was to blame and he should resign...as did Kennedy and a few others. Lying hypocritical pompus tulips all of them.

I have had enuff of liberal morons that skirt issues and turn this into a purely political event to further their agenda.

And before I go on..there are Republicans that are no better.

There is a young Senator from Tennesee and I can't think of his name at this moment , whom I may add is a DEM. who was on Fox news this morning. The guy was a class act. No stone throwing. No remarks agaisnt Repubs. or Dems.. Just honest answers to some good questions with good intentions for this country and the war. I found him intriuging. (sp)

This WHOLE thing is just like you say..BLOWN UP FOR POLITICAL GAIN.

[Gunslinger]

I SAW THAT.....Your talking about Ford.  He seemed like a really good guy.  Smart and educated about the situation.  

I have to ask some of these librals.  What's more important....protecting the troops in Iraq and Americans around the world......or beating bush

I'm not just being partisin here there are republicans hopping on this wagon as well.

If the Dems. put up a candiate that could do more than just "beat Bush" I'd consider voting for him/her.

[RedTop]

Yep...that was him...Dang guy was cool...Now HE I may could get behind. I'm a bush guy...My Wife and I both are. But , if I thought there was someone out there that would do a better job then I would consider them.

Bush is and has done a great job IMO. Kerry offers me no resfulnees when it comes to thinking he would do well by this country. He seems much the contrary. He reminds me a bit of Hillary. The truth is what I want it to be. He is not an honest person.

I relly like Fred Thompson from Tennesee as well when he was a senator. Down to earth kind of guy.

WHERE ARE THOSE GUYS WHEN WE NEED EM?