18,000 al Qaeda fighters

[Otto]

We could have stopped this if we would have just been 'Nice':

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/news/archive/2004/05/25/national1907EDT0711.DTL&type=printable

[Toad]

Let's see..... there was ABSOLUTELY no A-Q link to Iraq before the war. Lots of the guys that really KNOW right here on this BBS have told us so.

OTOH,

MSNBC: In June 2002, U.S. officials say intelligence had revealed that Zarqawi and members of al-Qaida had set up a weapons lab at Kirma, in northern Iraq, producing deadly ricin and cyanide.

The Pentagon quickly drafted plans to attack the camp with cruise missiles and airstrikes and sent it to the White House, where, according to U.S. government sources, the plan was debated to death in the National Security Council.

But Wait! Powell said (07 February 2003)

Those helping to run this camp are Zarqawi lieutenants operating in northern Kurdish areas outside Saddam Hussein's controlled Iraq.

So that must be true, right? It was in an area beyond Hussein's control. Powell said so! Not Hussein's fault! He didn't know they were there!

He also followed that sentence with:

But Baghdad has an agent in the most senior levels of the radical organization Ansar al-Islam that controls this corner of Iraq. In 2000, this agent offered al-Qaida safe haven in the region.


Al-Zarqawi's Iraq-linked terrorist network. (large image)
After we swept al-Qaida from Afghanistan, some of those members accepted this safe haven. They remain there today.

So, will the guy registered on this BBS that knows the absolute truth in this matter please go ahead and tell me which way it really was?

Thanks!

[Pongo]

I never said it validates terrorism. I said it validates their world view. Which for recruiting purposes is very valuble. Just look at how easy it probably was to recruit for the US army after 9/11. Same concept. The two statements are totaly different. You must be one of those  right wing nutsos that think you can lie anytime you like and get away with it.

[NUKE]

Originally posted by Pongo
I never said it validates terrorism. I said it validates their world view. Which for recruiting purposes is very valuble. Just look at how easy it probably was to recruit for the US army after 9/11. Same concept. The two statements are totaly different. You must be one of those  right wing nutsos that think you can lie anytime you like and get away with it.

Point out one of my lies or go way Pongo. You are dealing with an intelect here, not a moron.

[Pongo]

When you deliberatly changed words and attributed them to me you lied. Are you sure your not a moron?

[NUKE]

Originally posted by Pongo
When you deliberatly changed words and attributed them to me you lied. Are you sure your not a moron?

what words did I change? I have no power to change anyone's words here.....tell me what words I changed. Point out my lie.

[NUKE]

BTW, I like your avatar

[Pongo]

did you not post this?
"Well Pongo, why don't you start by defining the "situation" that validates terrorism?"

Where did I say that terrorism was valid? You changed my words.
Pretty crappy thing to do to try to create a flame fest. Is that the latest thing with "intelects" now? Instead of debating the point at hand which you were grossley missunderstanding..you try to create a flame fest on someone by missquoting him then look pathetic by denying it?

[Pongo]

Ya its like we are terrible twins..lol
Tillman is the cheese.

[Red Tail 444]

Originally posted by NUKE
Do you believe that by attacking Iraq, we have increased the ranks  of Al Qaida?

Explain what part of the invasion of Iraq was a blunder.

This part...

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040526/ap_on_re_mi_ea/al_qaida&cid=540&ncid=716

Any questions?

[Trell]

Originally posted by Pongo
Ya its like we are terrible twins..lol
Tillman is the cheese.

Lol  You two make it confusing to read your fights, it is like watching a fight with twins.

[Charon]

So Toad, how would you rank Iraq as a Al Queada safe haven compared to:

Saudi Arabia
Iran
Pakistan
Chechnya
Philippines
Egypt
Indonesia
Uzbekistan
Tajikistan
Somalia
Algeria
Yemen
Kosovo
Jordan
Bosnia
Sudan
(and about a dozen or so additional countries where the organization has some sort of organized presence)

We have Powell (whose credibility is not what it once was) apparently stating a degree of passive support in an area of Iraq removed from Hussein's direct control, but perhaps tolerated and monitored. That is, if Hussein had actual influence in the Kurdish region to any real extent. For all we know now, that was just more bad intel from Ahmad Chalabi.

I don't think you need to know the "absolute truth" to know that at least a half of the countries/territories on the list above have a more direct link, even an active link to Al Queda. For that matter, here’s what al-Zarqawi has to say about that special Al Queda relationship with Hussein:

We have been hiding for a long time, and now we are seriously working on preparing a media outlet to reveal the truth, enflame zeal, and become an outlet for jihad in which the sword and the pen can turn into one...

...while handing over control of Iraq to a bastard government with an army and police force that will bring back the time of (Saddam) Husayn and his cohorts.

...Under this banner, they have begun to assassinate the Sunnis under the pretense that they are saboteurs, vestiges of the Ba'ath, or terrorists who spread perversion in the country.
http://www.military.com/NewContent/0,13190,Defensewatch_021704_Letter,00.html?ESRC=dod.nl

Even the administration played down the direct link factor shortly after the "Axis of Evil" speech when it became apparent that it wouldn't carry the weight of an invasion. Had Hussein decided not to invade Kuwait in 1991, he would probably be lauded as a champion in the fight against terrorism today.

Personally, I think it would have been more appropriate to start working down the list above. Maybe if we had taken a more direct and less theoretical approach to the war on terror we could have helped prevent the Bali, Madrid and Istanbul bombings or some of those those regular kidnappings/murders in the Philippines. We might even have Bin Ladin now (though he is no longer a priority according to the current administration /quotes avail on request)

Charon

[midnight Target]

Sorry but I have to call shenanigans on the claim that Iraq is causing an increase in Al Quaida's ranks. Read the first article.
The 18k number is based on the estimate that 20k were trained and 2k were killed.

That is NOT an increase.

The estimate of 18,000 fighters was based on intelligence estimates that al Qaeda trained at least 20,000 fighters in its training camps in Afghanistan before the United States and its allies ousted the Taliban regime. In the ensuing war on terror, some 2,000 al Qaeda fighters have been killed or captured, the survey said.

[Gyro/T69]

It would also help to know what defines an Al Oaeda fighter. Would that be someone holding the necessary education and language skills, which would permit them to move freely round the world without drawing attention, or does it also include the common cannon fodder? I would think, a lot more of the second that the first. In reality, the common Al Oaeda fighter may not be any more intelligent that a “box of rocks” outside the mideast.

[Toad]

I'll take that as "I don't know either".

Thanks.

Can't believe you rolled out the "you can only work on one if you work on all at the same time."

Maybe you just work on the one you know about.

But, like I said...... who really knows.