Author Topic: Pilot Physiology Model in AH2 (Read 3364 times)

Crumpp · « **on:** May 28, 2004, 12:19:06 PM »

I have always wondered how a Pilot that is either on the verge of unconsciousness or blacked out can continue to pull the stick in a turn?

Films I have seen of pilots blacking out. They relax and it's nighty night. They do not continue to fly the plane.

I think that even on the verge, the "grey zone", a pilot becomes physically weaker as the muscles go into Oxygen deprivation and will begin to relax more and more the closer to unconsciousness.

From my experience I passed out breath hold diving. My "shallow water blackout" occurred just as my head broke the surface. I could see and was fully aware that I was being "rescued" by the safety swimmers BUT I had no muscle control. I simply convulsed for a few minutes til Oxygen returned to my muscles.

Pilots can build a tolerance somewhat and flex the muscles of the lower body in an attempt to keep blood in the upper body. It would be cool IMO if AH2 modeled a pilots physiology in blackouts/redouts. Maybe we could even spend some "perk points" on improving your pilots tolerance to G's at least for a little while.

Crumpp

guttboy · « **Reply #1 on:** May 28, 2004, 01:39:56 PM »

Crumpp...speaking from personal knowledge of this very subject...the modeling is quite accurate. You will experience Grey out/Tunnel vision and as soon as you release the stick (release the g's on the acft) you will resume normal vision...well pretty close...everyone differs but for the most part it comes back like is designed here. Physical conditioning helps your response to this ...aka recovery.

Once you hit the "funky chicken mode" you are pretty much toast...It can take a long time to recover from this. Do a search for GLOC...g iduced loss of consciousness....it will get you some good stuff.

That "funky chicken mode" is not modeled in here. The reason I believe is because people differ...its a game....there has to be a pt at which you draw the line. As far as Im concerned its good as it is.

Pilots can and do ride the "edge" of the tunnel....it is a fact...modelled well here.

Good thoughts.....take care:)

Edbert · « **Reply #2 on:** May 28, 2004, 01:50:53 PM »

One aspect of physiology that is not modeled is the gradual lowering of a pilots ability to sustain Gs after being exposed to them. I mean, lets say the 1st time you pull a high load to the edge of blackout it takes you a factor of "10" to reach that point. Well, 60 seconds later it will only take you a "9" (or 9.9 or 9.5 whatever). Each time you do it your tolerance for such action will decrease. Theoretically you could after a long hard T&B session have almost no tolerance left. It has been documented that sustained G forces will blur vision and decrease thought processes. All short term effects but real nonetheless.

Could we not model a cumulative G meter that could be reset whenever the pilot replanes? This would hurt me in the MA since I re-arm often and have flown 2+ hour sorties before, but I think it would add some more realism to the game.

hitech · « **Reply #3 on:** May 28, 2004, 01:53:47 PM »

the funky chicken is modeld guttboy.

There are 2 modes of "Black out" modeled.

1. Where you don't see.
2. Where you are doing the funcky chicken.

Fatigue will build everytime you are fully blacked out "cant see".

Once a threshhold is reached you will be made uncionsious, the stick is automaticly released,the screen will still be black, and your current flight path is in a stick nutetral path.

HiTech

GScholz · « **Reply #4 on:** May 28, 2004, 01:58:46 PM »

No more hitting "X" to save me?

Edbert · « **Reply #5 on:** May 28, 2004, 02:21:10 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by GScholz
No more hitting "X" to save me?

Using the AP works in situation #1 (above) but not in #2.

Crumpp · « **Reply #6 on:** May 28, 2004, 02:25:20 PM »

It is modeled?

I tried an experiment. I dove from 9000 feet when my airspeed exceeded 550 mph I pulled hard on the stick. I blacked out about 15 degrees below the horizon. I continued to pull back on the stick. When I released it and the screen went from totally black to being clear in less than a second. My AC nose was pointed about 75 degrees above the Horizon. In other words for 3/4 of a turn while completely blacked out my pilot was flying the plane. This is unrealistic.

Yes pilots ride the Grey line. The longer you ride it and the closer you get to everything turning black the weaker your pilot should become and more he will relax pressure on the stick.

You recover from the "funky chicken" fairly quickly. In my military dive training I have passed out completely several times. Standard time alotted a guy to recover from unconsciousness is 2 minutes. Then it's back in the pool and back to work.

Crumpp

Stratocaster · « **Reply #7 on:** May 28, 2004, 03:25:23 PM »

NO! HTC DONT LISTEN TO THEM NO MORE SIM CRAP!!!!!!!!! I WILL QUIT IF THIS WENT INTO AFFECT! LOL

MaddogJoe · « **Reply #8 on:** May 28, 2004, 03:36:17 PM »

In HT's explination he said multiple black outs will get to that thresold that will get you to the funky chicken mode. My guess is that the first few times you black out are the lee-way HT gives everyone as we are all in such good shape.... hhhmmmm will maybe not all of us

Try your test again, but I'll bet that the second time or third time you do it on that one flight, you'll be doing the funky chicken and will have no idea where you'll be pointing.

hitech · « **Reply #9 on:** May 28, 2004, 03:53:19 PM »

Also has to do with how long, Start at 20k once go into a nose low black out turn once.

Also nothing has changed. It has always been this way in AHI

HiTech

Crumpp · « **Reply #10 on:** May 28, 2004, 04:03:21 PM »

That's my point. When things go black NOBODY has the presence of mind to continue meaningful action. MUCH less continue to hold pressure on an AC and think in three dimensions.

The tolerance to G's lowering means the effect should be more pronounced and onset earlier the more times you experience G's in a relatively short period of time.

Right now the effect of G's is almost non-existent.

It's an idea for AH2 Tour of Duty. Not only could you spend you perk points for "better" planes but for a "better" pilot. I also think it would add to Combat. Some A/C were better at allowing a pilot to pull more G's due to their design. These planes would have that advantage in the game as well. Wouldn't be hard to figure out. The planes with the closest to supine position for their pilots will be the most resistant to G's.

A pilot has to ride the EDGE, not the end, of the Grey Line. Much more realistic AND fun IMO.

Crumpp

Crumpp · « **Reply #11 on:** May 28, 2004, 04:36:10 PM »

I really appreciate your replying Hitech. In AH1 the effect was not pronounced enough IMO. Just as real pilots have to consider the Physiological effects of a maneuver sim pilots should have similar limitations.

Crumpp

GScholz · « **Reply #12 on:** May 28, 2004, 05:11:15 PM »

Crumpp, when pulling G's you will lose vision before losing consciousness. You can't see anything, but you can still hear and have full control of your body. You do not immediately lose consciousness because the eyes need more oxygen than the brain to function so vision goes first. It is dangerous however since you no longer have any warning before GLOC.

guttboy · « **Reply #13 on:** May 28, 2004, 06:06:27 PM »

HiTech,

Thanks a bunch....I guess its me because I have never had funky chicken mode. Always ride the line. I dont think I have seen pilots go into funky chicken mode but perhaps they fly as I do....

For those uninformed...you CAN black out without seeing a thing..yet still hear and be fully functional while flying the plane. It is when you pass this point...and it can be a fine line...when the GLOC occurs.

Thanks again Hitech and others for bringing this up...learn something new every day!

Regards:)

guttboy · « **Reply #14 on:** May 28, 2004, 06:07:23 PM »

OOPS....Gsholz....I had my computer running and did not see your post...LOL......

YEAH...what Gsholz says....lol...