How widespread is this islamic view?

[-tronski-]

Originally posted by Yeager
Nice try pei.  

Perhaps had the japanese invaded your country and brutalized you granmother and grandfather like they originally intended you would be singing a differne tune.  

But oh.....no.  Saved by the Queen and Uncle sam yo are so privilidged to sit there in restrospect and declare your saviors as war criminals because you are all high and mighty.

What a waste of time you turned out to be

Actually we helped save ourselves.....

and the japs did a pretty good job of brutalising our grandmothers and grandfathers thanks...

 Tronsky

[_Schadenfreude_]

Originally posted by Nash
Lol you idiots.

There's no trash like white trash....

[_Schadenfreude_]

Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Well there he said it... He sees no moral difference between nazi germany and the western allies in WW2...

And yes, thank god we are in a different dimesnion...

So any of you who have parents or grandparents who served in the western allied armies in WW2 you can thank SLO for his consideration of them as equals to SS concentartion camp executioners.

SLO you are a sick little man.

Thus speaketh the uneducated child...

[GRUNHERZ]

Originally posted by _Schadenfreude_
Thus speaketh the uneducated child...

So I take you think they are morally equivalent?

But really should I be surprised considering, well you know...

[airguard]

Maybe its time to implent a social IQ test, before before beeing granted to post at the O'club.
This thread turned out pretty funny

[Pei]

Originally posted by Yeager
Nice try pei.  

Perhaps had the japanese invaded your country and brutalized you granmother and grandfather like they originally intended you would be singing a differne tune.  

But oh.....no.  Saved by the Queen and Uncle sam yo are so privilidged to sit there in restrospect and declare your saviors as war criminals because you are all high and mighty.

What a waste of time you turned out to be

Ah so the the Japanese actually managed to land in the USA then... let me check my history books......

So basically your argument is that the Japanese were worse than the Germans so they deserved it more?

People living  in glass houses shouldn't throne stones.

[Bluedog]

Originally posted by -tronski-
Actually we helped save ourselves.....

and the japs did a pretty good job of brutalising our grandmothers and grandfathers thanks...

 Tronsky

No no Tronski, we were saved by Uncle Sam and the Queen.

Remember how the Queen persuaded her husband the King, whom we all know has absolute power over military affairs, to save poor Australia by surrendering Singapore? Strategic genius was all that saved the day for us there.

Can you imagine the carnage at Milne Bay had it not been for the American presence? Or for that matter, how do you suppose mere Aussies would have faired on the Kokoda Track?
Then again, I dont suppose either the Battle of Milne Bay or the Kokoda Campaign had anything to do with victory in NG anyway.
Buna-Gona? Now Uncle Sam's lads did a fine job on that one, but of course there wasnt an Aussie in sight.
Our grandparents were never brutalised, the Burma Railway, Changi Prison, the Tol Plantation Massacre...these and hundreds more are all just stories made up since to make naughty children behave themselves.

I suppose if the Japanese had of actually bombed an Australian naval base and it's city, or maybe snuck a few midget submarines into a harbour somewhere, or shelled Sydney's Eastern Suburbs or something, maybe then it would be differant.
Perhaps had we as a nation sent troops to fight when the war started it might have been differant.
Maybe then we could actually claim to have been a participant in this whole saving of the world bussiness.

Hey, if all of that had actually happened, do you reckon Australians would still be respectfull and gratefull enough of our saviours to send our boys to fight and die right alongside theirs every time they get in a fight?

Gee....imagine how it might have been.

[-tronski-]

Your right mate, it was pretty stupid of me to suggest such foolishness....

Christ, next an aussie may dare to suggest it was we who went to fight and save the queen (and her husband George VI) in '39, or even dared to stick our heads further north than rockhampton sometime in the '40's.....

far safer to hide behind MacArthur's bullet proof ego I reckon...

 Tronsky

[ravells]

Yeah....useless Aussies!

And don't forget your your minimal contribution in the first world war and turning up late for that one too!

Utter lack of courage. I mean if you had tried to take a beach head at a huge cost or something, I would think more kindly of you.



Ravs

[_Schadenfreude_]

So.....who do you think going to win the rugby vs the World Champions this weekend then?

[Crumpp]

I have read about half of this thread.


Couple of points I want to make:

1.  99 percent of the Muslims in the world are good people.  Not recognizing this and not protecting their right to their own religious beliefs spits in the face of those who have given their lives pursuing the destruction of these fanatics and what the United States stand for.  Like every other religion they have their fanatics.  Unfortunately their fanatics are flying planes into large buildings, cutting innocent peoples heads off, and whatever other mayhem they can create in the rest of the world.  They have declared war on all Non-Muslims and a majority of Muslims remain quiet instead of adopting the outrage the situation demands.  I wonder if the Klu Klux Klan was attacking African Countries in the same manner how quickly the American population would stamp them out?

2.  This is because they are "tired" of America's medling in their affairs and keeping the good Muslim down.  

3.  No matter what you call the government in a third world country it is in reality Fuedalism with a few rich families trading off power.   These rich families in the Middle East have placated their populations by blaming their lack of social mobility with cries of "If only America would.....then life would be better for you!"

4.  So just like Nazi Germany, the Klu Klux Klan, and the Christian Militia these groups are able to find plenty of willing recruits who rally to their cries of "Your lot in life is not your fault - It's the jews, blacks, italians, french, arabs, or in this case AMERICANS"

5. Osama Bin Laden saw the defeat of the Soviet Union, a world superpower, as the begining of a new world order.  Using the same methods he intends to bring the United States down and open the way for a return to glory days of the 12th Century estabilishing a Muslim World Power.  He believes the Western World is soft.  In many ways he is right.  The United States as a cultural attention span of about 10 minutes and no stomach for casualties.  Europe's population has the spine of a Garden Variety snail for the most part.  Look at Bosnia or Spain's reaction to a major terrorist attack and take heed.  We will pay a terrible price for this lack of resolve.  Don't worry though, it won't effect YOUR non-muslim country. YOUR different in these fanatics eyes, didn't Osama offer peace if you only stopped supporting America?

6.  In order for the Western world to win this, the Middle East will have to be "reformed".   Social Mobility will have to be introduced and their societies standard of living raised.  If you notice, in general, the countries most friendly to the United States have the greatest amount of social mobility and highest standard of living.  It is about Oil.  For trade is how lasting peace is made.   This is going to take time, blood, and money.  Money we have a plenty, Osama is banking we will not devote the time and he knows we can't stomach the blood.  

7.  The Arab-Isreali conflict is deep and murkey.  Both sides are elbow deep in blood and IMO niether is innocent.  However the world cannot stand by and allow suicide bombers who attack innocent civilians to win.  If Palestinians had adopted peaceful non-violent protest measures their is NO doubt in my mind they would have their own country by now.  The Western World would not have stood for Isreali tanks against peaceful protest.  Other places in the world, maybe, but not a country with as close a ties to the US/Europe as Isreal. The Palestinians are their own worst enemy in this conflict. For they force the west to side with Isreal.  

8.  In the end though the people of the Middle East will be the real winners.  Either way things have got to change over in the sandbox.  I just hope western civilization has the resolve to reform it in a manner we can all live in peace for the alternative is not pleasant.  Right now less than 1 percent of Americans are in Uniform.  Of that less than 1 percent are engaged in combat operations.  The allies lost more soldiers in an hour in some battles during WWII than the west has lost in this entire conflict.

Crumpp

[Flit]

Originally posted by Momus--
Wow, since you're so well informed about British provinces, you'll be able to name this alleged part of Britain where the common law has been suspended in favour of Sharia? I look forward to you enlightening me, especially since I'm sure it will be news to the Queen, the Prime Minister, the Cabinet, the Houses of Commons and Lords, the Judiciary, the tabloid and broadsheet press and approximately 68,000,000 inhabitants of this fair isle.

wish I could find it now, just read it the other day
Of course, it was on the 'net, so ya never know;)

[Pongo]

Crump
Great post.
Only thing I would contend are the peacefull attempts made by palistinian moderates to accomplish their goals. It has been happening for decades and anything that is accomplished is vetoed by the US or made useless by illegal Isreali settlements.

[Crumpp]

Pongo,

No side is innocent.  The Palestinian leadership has been offered many workable peace plans and rejected them on petty grounds.  Quite frankly they hold on to idea of eliminating the Israeli's.  They give lipservice to condeming HAMAS and other Terrorist organizations while giving them safe harbour and administrative support.  

On both sides their are moderates and people who know peace can work.  Question is when will they become angy enough at their OWN fanatics to stop them so we can all raise our children in hope of a better tommorrow.  In the end we all ride the same tiny planet and our fates ARE linked.

Crumpp

[Crumpp]

Thanks Pongo for your comments BTW.  I apologize if my reply seems condescending.  I assure you it is not meant to be.  Each side has justified grievences and could continue the conflict for time everlasting.

Crumpp