Author Topic: Outnumbered by Rooks...again  (Read 5439 times)

Offline SlapShot

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 9121
Outnumbered by Rooks...again
« Reply #60 on: July 26, 2004, 11:31:20 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Zazen13
Sounds like coming to an undefended base with some altitude, semi-vulching a couple guys as they up to defend, so long as you don't blow your E you can semi-vulch them all day long. Unless, of course, more start upping than you and your 4 buddies can effetively semi-vulch (no doubt claiming you were now getting gang-banged), then I assume you would pick up your toys and go 'stir up trouble' elsewhere at another undefended field the HUGE maps offer in abundance? ;)

On small maps it's not one horde gang-banging. It's two hordes meeting in a battle that is spread out over a sector or two. Over this area there are many strata of fighting extending vertically and laterally. The fights you seek on big maps are available either up high or on the outer fringes of small map fights, you just have to be a little more creative in finding them. Unlike huge maps where there are undefended bases to go poach a couple enemy with no alt and no E up to veinly try and defend.

Zazen


Duh ... yes the base would be undefended until they noticed our presence ... ya goober.

Thanks for the "E" hint ... LOL

No we don't vulch or semi-vulch ... we draw them out from the base and then the games begin. The 13th never complains about be ganged, especially if we pissed in their pool. We are more than happy to deal with more targets than what we bring to the fight. Typically these types of engagements last quite awhile, before things start getting lopsided, if it does get lopsided.

The fights you seek on big maps are available either up high or on the outer fringes of small map fights, you just have to be a little more creative in finding them.

I don't get much above 8K in anything I fly so High alt is out. Was on Mindano yesterday for a bit and could not find anything on the fringe ... the fringe was engulfed by the front.

Unlike huge maps where there are undefended bases to go poach a couple enemy with no alt and no E up to veinly try and defend.

Not our style nor intentions ... the 13th are always looking for good fights ... win or lose ... vulching / semi-vulchin really has no thrill for us.
SlapShot - Blue Knights

Guppy: "The only risk we take is the fight, and since no one really dies, the reward is the fight."

Offline Grimm

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1015
Outnumbered by Rooks...again
« Reply #61 on: July 26, 2004, 11:32:13 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by NoBaddy
Hmm, seems I remember a whooole buncha whining in these boards and in the game about Rooks being out numbered. So much so, that a number of squads actually switched to the Rooks to balance things out.


As for blaming the Damned...yeah, it's probably my fault :).


Yes, there were complaints.   Yet,  the Rooks worked their way out of thier dilema.    Personaly I wish that folks didnt complain, and not all do,  some just bring things to the table to be examined.  

Alright,  you admitted it.  its your fault... Stone him!@!  ;)

Offline Grimm

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1015
Outnumbered by Rooks...again
« Reply #62 on: July 26, 2004, 11:34:21 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Overlag
theres too much land % on pizza....i like open seas to have CVS in.... thats one reason i dont like it

the second reason is the layout when the map starts... WHY have 3 countries PER pizza slice? why not have a country per slice?

oh hang on thats a whole other thread ;)


at the risk of a derail..   I would agree with ya Overlag.  Pizza is a fixable map,  we might not all agree on the fixes needed,  but it could be adjusted to have overall better play.

Offline crowMAW

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1179
Outnumbered by Rooks...again
« Reply #63 on: July 26, 2004, 11:38:33 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Zazen13
As stated, Bishops and Knights were co-operatively fighting Rooks, so even during our peek numbers this Sunday it was still 217 Rooks Vs. 271 enemy. So, in actual fact Rooks were the ones outnumbered...

For last night that is true since Bish/Knits were working together.  However, this has been the first semi successful truce for Bish/Knits in my memory.  So normally, given a roughly even distribution within a country fighting each opposing country, you have 108 Rooks hitting 71 Bish and 108 Rooks attacking 64 Knits.

Offline Ohio330

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 200
Outnumbered by Rooks...again
« Reply #64 on: July 26, 2004, 11:40:04 AM »
Originally posted by Wrag: " Reupped from A1 with an added squaddie (3 of us now) and went hunting again and jumped a flight of about 6 or 7 P38's low and inb A43 from A50. Was great fight but got shot down this time LOL. Got em all to drop their ord and furball with us. Think we managed to get 4 of em."

  Heh was that you?  Ya our squad tried sneaking into 43..but
our target was the town..not the airbase.  I was able to take out
a few buildings in 2 passes while you guys furballed with my squad.  After hearing quite a few  "oh **** I'm down" calls from
them..  I ran like a girly man  :)

Offline crowMAW

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1179
Outnumbered by Rooks...again
« Reply #65 on: July 26, 2004, 11:43:14 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Shuckins
The truce worked fairly well at evening things out.  Salute to Meddog and others who organized it.  Fights were no longer Two to one maulings.

If worked well until a handful of knights logged on who refused to cooperate with their fellow knights in honoring the truce, and attacked the Bish (Salute to the Bish who cooperated in the truce) at 22.  When asked to abide by the truce they launched into some "eff the truce" diatribes, flinging insults against Meddog and others who helped organize it.

Is there anyway to give such twerps the boot?  Anybody else want 'em?

It was unfortunate to see the 68th take the approach they did.  They are a great squad and I have tons of respect for them.  It was dissapointing to hear several of them insulting those who set up the truce since normally they are one of the most teamwork oriented squads that the Knits have.  Fortunately, not very many Knits came to the denfese of a22 after it was captured.

Offline RT

  • Zinc Member
  • *
  • Posts: 33
Numbers problem and solution
« Reply #66 on: July 26, 2004, 11:46:19 AM »
For the first two years I played, Rooks were always outnumbered and those who were playing will recall it was an issue.  For those years I played only on the Rooks and I tried do my part to help.  

I recall how well rook squads like the 81st would give hours of their playing time just to kill barracks, fuel, and ord in order to keep us from being rolled back by the overwhelming numbers.  

Whenever enough people were willing to work together and disable nme resources, the lines would generally hold.  And whenever people didn't care and just milled around, we hopefully had fun while we were rolled over and reset.  

The welfare of my old home team depends on the welfare of the game, so I play on the side of the out-numbered these days.  I play for the green side and it may turn out to be Rooks, Knights, or Bishop.  

More often than not, too few people on the out-numbered side care enough to fly the simple missions to disable nme resources, and so the side gets over-run.  Sunday night, enough Bishops flew those simple missions and disabled troops and the Rook attack could not get rolling.  

A half dozen players giving a few minutes of their game time to strafe down barracks can prevent the horde from rolling over the outnumbered side.  It is that simple.  

When a country gets over-run, the fault lies with that country, because it is easily preventable.  Barracks are easier to kill in AH2 than they were in AH1.

Offline Zazen13

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3600
Outnumbered by Rooks...again
« Reply #67 on: July 26, 2004, 11:47:36 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by mars01

As a Bish all you do is get ganged so you get used to it.  Another thing as a bish, I noticed, is that you could have the numbers in an area and then all of a sudden your alone fighting tons of red.  Still can't figure that on out.

 


Mars, I'll give you a clue...It's because Bishops die really quickly. I have played on Bishops extensively, I experienced the same thing. The simple truth is Bishops get killed very quickly, alot also auger. You can be flying along into what appears to be a 10 on 10 or so, then suddenly, WHAM!, 7 Bishops get killed and /or auger and you're now 3 on 10 and totally screwed. Bishops have no talent for survival, generally speaking, their country statistics are proof of this.

Zazen
« Last Edit: July 26, 2004, 11:58:16 AM by Zazen13 »
Zazen PhD of Cherrypickology
Author of, "The Zen Art of Cherrypicking" and other related works.
Quote, "Cherrypicking is a state of mind & being, not only Art and Scienc

Offline crowMAW

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1179
Outnumbered by Rooks...again
« Reply #68 on: July 26, 2004, 11:50:42 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by JB73
there was not RJO... how many times did we say that on ch200

i was on for about 3-4 hours, and the peak i saw the numbers @ was 179 rooks to about 140 bish and about 110 knights.[/SIZE]

The peak I noted was 226 Rooks...but I also noted that Rook numbers dropped dramatically after Knits/Bish took bases back during the Truce.

It may not have been an official RJO last night, but we all know that given the large number of Rook squad-nites on Sunday, the attacks may not be as coordinated as a real RJO, but the numbers are just as overwhelming.

Offline Zazen13

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3600
Outnumbered by Rooks...again
« Reply #69 on: July 26, 2004, 11:51:38 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by SlapShot
Duh ... yes the base would be undefended until they noticed our presence ... ya goober.

Thanks for the "E" hint ... LOL

No we don't vulch or semi-vulch ... we draw them out from the base and then the games begin. The 13th never complains about be ganged, especially if we pissed in their pool. We are more than happy to deal with more targets than what we bring to the fight. Typically these types of engagements last quite awhile, before things start getting lopsided, if it does get lopsided.



Ummm, Slappy, so you're saying you and your 4 buddies up, head toward an undefended base, patiently wait a good distance away for an equal number of  defenders to up, then wait for them to get co-alt, co-E before you engage them? I'm sorry but that has to be the most rediculous thing I've ever heard. :rolleyes:

Zazen
Zazen PhD of Cherrypickology
Author of, "The Zen Art of Cherrypicking" and other related works.
Quote, "Cherrypicking is a state of mind & being, not only Art and Scienc

Offline crowMAW

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1179
Outnumbered by Rooks...again
« Reply #70 on: July 26, 2004, 12:06:21 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by ghostdancer
The Knits on the other hand have 112 squads (96  of these dedicated) and a possible pilot pool of 1239. However, they are consistently fielding the least amount of pilots even though they have most dedicated squads, the 2nd most dedicate and primary squads, and the 2nd most possible pilots.

The reason for this we can only guess at. Although as I said a couple main motivating squads on the Knits side about 1 year to 9 months ago dissolved and MAG-33 multi-squad went defunct. I don’t fly Knits so I have no idea what it is like flying over there .. organized, not organized, fun, grumpy, etc.

We did lose one squad in the last 3 weeks...The Shiznot.  They regularly field some very decent pilots for Knits (including Dragoon, Nuke, BadAce and  the sub-16 yo 2Shad4u)...they went Rook.

I know that the number of MAW regulars has dropped significantly.  Several of our regulars went to the TAS in the last couple of months and then the TAS went Rook.  And others have been overcome with events in their real lives so can't fly as much as they used to.

We are happy to see the Muppets come over though.

Offline Furious

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3243
Outnumbered by Rooks...again
« Reply #71 on: July 26, 2004, 12:12:09 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Dead Man Flying
I can't possibly complain about the numbers.  Last night despite the numbers discrepency, Knights and Rooks had a nice give-and-take at A44.  Sometimes I'd vulch, and other times I'd have to help push back a major charge against our base.  It was all there, and it was all good.  The numbers were fairly even and the fights plentiful.

Good stuff.

-- Todd/Leviathn


That is unpossible.  Are you implying that some folks might actually look for even fights??  Might enjoy them?  Might not give a crap about the reset?



A44 is a true AH gift.  Always fun being had there.

Offline Zazen13

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3600
Outnumbered by Rooks...again
« Reply #72 on: July 26, 2004, 12:18:51 PM »
One thing of note with regard to Rook squadrons that Ghostdancer and Grimm alluded to. A very many current Rook squadrons were flying together for years in AWFR. We didn't just come together in AH, we've been together a LONG time. We are not going to switch countries on a whim just because of historically, very temporary, numerical fluctuations. I appreciate that some squadrons choose to do this but, Rooks tend to enjoy a high degree of country fidelity among alot of it's core squadrons.

I have always been of the opinion myself that squadrons should remain with one country or another, it tends to build community within the countries and therefore AH as a whole. The people that should do the moving around are the 20% or so that have no squadron affiliation whatsoever. Those people have no excuses, they should go where they are most needed.

Zazen
Zazen PhD of Cherrypickology
Author of, "The Zen Art of Cherrypicking" and other related works.
Quote, "Cherrypicking is a state of mind & being, not only Art and Scienc

Offline mars01

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4148
Outnumbered by Rooks...again
« Reply #73 on: July 26, 2004, 12:22:42 PM »
Quote
Mars, I'll give you a clue...It's because Bishops die really quickly. I have played on Bishops extensively, I experienced the same thing. The simple truth is Bishops get killed very quickly, alot also auger. You can be flying along into what appears to be a 10 on 10 or so, then suddenly, WHAM!, 7 Bishops get killed and /or auger and you're now 3 on 10 and totally screwed. Bishops have no talent for survival, generally speaking, their country statistics are proof of this.
Zazen your brush is too wide, the Bish have a lot of good sticks.  I don't agree with this one bit.

Quote
Ummm, Slappy, so you're saying you and your 4 buddies up, head toward an undefended base, patiently wait a good distance away for an equal number of defenders to up, then wait for them to get co-alt, co-E before you engage them? I'm sorry but that has to be the most rediculous thing I've ever heard.
Zazen, well it's obviouse from your post that you never come down to even the odds, but we do.  And you missed the point we don't fly from a perch so we rarely have an alt advantage so there is no waiting for them to get co-alt.  We fight anyhwere from 5k to the deck, depending on the distance and numbers we are flying into sometimes 8k.  

Try it it's a whole lot more challenging than cherry picking and running.:aok :D

Quote
I have always been of the opinion myself that squadrons should remain with one country or another, it tends to build community within the countries and therefore AH as a whole. The people that should do the moving around are the 20% or so that have no squadron affiliation whatsoever. Those people have no excuses, they should go where they are most needed.
Man you are stepping in it today.  This comming from a guy wiht Shade accounts.  lol.

Offline SlapShot

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 9121
Outnumbered by Rooks...again
« Reply #74 on: July 26, 2004, 12:22:46 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Zazen13
Ummm, Slappy, so you're saying you and your 4 buddies up, head toward an undefended base, patiently wait a good distance away for an equal number of  defenders to up, then wait for them to get co-alt, co-E before you engage them? I'm sorry but that has to be the most rediculous thing I've ever heard. :rolleyes:

Zazen


Don't be so simplistic so as to cheapen what I have tried to explain.

No we don't wait for an equal number to up, but when there are only 3-5 of us, its very easy for them to up that amount of defenders, or more, in a short amount of time. Along with that, we ALL don't engage (gang) the few that may come up. No fun in that. We do try to make the initial engagement as fair as possible.

Eventually, some of us die, and the remaing guys usually die once they are overwhelmed. We then head back to the same base and hope that they too start to head towards us and we meet in the middle. Now we have the scenario we hoped for.

The inital engagement is only meant to stir up the hornets nest and for the most part, it works ... for us.

I offered an insight as to why I/we tend to like the bigger maps and really have no more impetus to argue the merits of what we try to do to find "fights" ... it was just input. Leave you innuendos at the door.

No need to apologize ... I could really care less if you think it's rediculous or not.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2004, 12:28:11 PM by SlapShot »
SlapShot - Blue Knights

Guppy: "The only risk we take is the fight, and since no one really dies, the reward is the fight."