boroda

[Boroda]

Originally posted by Dago
Ignoring reality again?

Yes, I'll ignore what you call "reality" if it's what you are fed on TV.

Originally posted by Dago
It has been established that Husseins governent was in contact with Al Queda.

Established by whom?! How a civilian leader could "establish contact" with religious fundamentalists? Sources please.

Originally posted by Dago
It has been shown there were plans to develop nuclear weapons in Iraq.

There are plans to develop nuclear weapons in dozens of countries. Many countries already have nuclear weapons, like Pakistan, that is well-known to host and support terrorists, with the assistance of the US.

Sources, please.

Originally posted by Dago
Iraq did have an extensive WMD program in place that was dismantled because of USA pressure.

It was dismantled, so - there was no WMD thread BEFORE you invaded? You contradict yourself.

Sources, please.

Originally posted by Dago
Iraq was in direct violation of the peace accords signed that ended Desert Storm and as a result was subject to attack.

This could not be a subject to attack. Look at the UN resolutions - they don't mention any conditions to use force against Iraq without UN SC or General Assembly decision.

Funny that you don't know such things.

Originally posted by Dago
Iraq was in violation of multiple UN resolutions.

Name them and tell me when and what parts did it violate. I ask because I want to educate myself, but I am afraid it's again "everyone knows" or "they told it on TV", and you just repeat it like a brainwashed parrot without bothering to develop an opinion of your own or merely check the facts.

Originally posted by Dago
Iraq was in violation of the "Oil for Food" program.

How?! Again I beg for sources.

Originally posted by Dago
Iraq attempted to assinate a  United States President.

Assinate? Are you serious? Best joke on this board in last several months!

I assume that all you posted above this brilliant piece was also a joke of humor?

LOL they not only attempted, they succeded!!!

[Dago]

Saddam Hussein has repeatedly violated sixteen United Nations Security Council Resolutions (UNSCRs) designed to ensure that Iraq does not pose a threat to international peace and security. In addition to these repeated violations, he has tried, over the past decade, to circumvent UN economic sanctions against Iraq, which are reflected in a number of other resolutions. As noted in the resolutions, Saddam Hussein was required to fulfill many obligations beyond the withdrawal of Iraqi forces from Kuwait. Specifically, Saddam Hussein was required to, among other things: allow international weapons inspectors to oversee the destruction of his weapons of mass destruction; not develop new weapons of mass destruction; destroy all of his ballistic missiles with a range greater than 150 kilometers; stop support for terrorism and prevent terrorist organizations from operating within Iraq; help account for missing Kuwaitis and other individuals; return stolen Kuwaiti property and bear financial liability for damage from the Gulf War; and he was required to end his repression of the Iraqi people. Saddam Hussein has repeatedly violated each of the following resolutions:

UNSCR 678 - November 29, 1990

    * Iraq must comply fully with UNSCR 660 (regarding Iraq's illegal invasion of Kuwait) "and all subsequent relevant resolutions."

    * Authorizes UN Member States "to use all necessary means to uphold and implement resolution 660 and all subsequent relevant resolutions and to restore international peace and security in the area."

UNSCR 686 - March 2, 1991

    * Iraq must release prisoners detained during the Gulf War.

    * Iraq must return Kuwaiti property seized during the Gulf War.

    * Iraq must accept liability under international law for damages from its illegal invasion of Kuwait.

UNSCR 687 - April 3, 1991

    * Iraq must "unconditionally accept" the destruction, removal or rendering harmless "under international supervision" of all "chemical and biological weapons and all stocks of agents and all related subsystems and components and all research, development, support and manufacturing facilities."

    * Iraq must "unconditionally agree not to acquire or develop nuclear weapons or nuclear-weapons-usable material" or any research, development or manufacturing facilities.

    * Iraq must "unconditionally accept" the destruction, removal or rendering harmless "under international supervision" of all "ballistic missiles with a range greater than 150 KM and related major parts and repair and production facilities."

    * Iraq must not "use, develop, construct or acquire" any weapons of mass destruction.

    * Iraq must reaffirm its obligations under the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty.

    * Creates the United Nations Special Commission (UNSCOM) to verify the elimination of Iraq's chemical and biological weapons programs and mandated that the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) verify elimination of Iraq's nuclear weapons program.

    * Iraq must declare fully its weapons of mass destruction programs.

    * Iraq must not commit or support terrorism, or allow terrorist organizations to operate in Iraq.

    * Iraq must cooperate in accounting for the missing and dead Kuwaitis and others.

    * Iraq must return Kuwaiti property seized during the Gulf War.

UNSCR 688 - April 5, 1991

    * "Condemns" repression of Iraqi civilian population, "the consequences of which threaten international peace and security."

    * Iraq must immediately end repression of its civilian population.

    * Iraq must allow immediate access to international humanitarian organizations to those in need of assistance.

UNSCR 707 - August 15, 1991

    * "Condemns" Iraq's "serious violation" of UNSCR 687.

    * "Further condemns" Iraq's noncompliance with IAEA and its obligations under the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty.

    * Iraq must halt nuclear activities of all kinds until the Security Council deems Iraq in full compliance.

    * Iraq must make a full, final and complete disclosure of all aspects of its weapons of mass destruction and missile programs.

    * Iraq must allow UN and IAEA inspectors immediate, unconditional and unrestricted access.

    * Iraq must cease attempts to conceal or move weapons of mass destruction, and related materials and facilities.

    * Iraq must allow UN and IAEA inspectors to conduct inspection flights throughout Iraq.

    * Iraq must provide transportation, medical and logistical support for UN and IAEA inspectors.

UNSCR 715 - October 11, 1991

    * Iraq must cooperate fully with UN and IAEA inspectors.

UNSCR 949 - October 15, 1994

    * "Condemns" Iraq's recent military deployments toward Kuwait.

    * Iraq must not utilize its military or other forces in a hostile manner to threaten its neighbors or UN operations in Iraq.

    * Iraq must cooperate fully with UN weapons inspectors.

    * Iraq must not enhance its military capability in southern Iraq.

UNSCR 1051 - March 27, 1996

    * Iraq must report shipments of dual-use items related to weapons of mass destruction to the UN and IAEA.

    * Iraq must cooperate fully with UN and IAEA inspectors and allow immediate, unconditional and unrestricted access.

UNSCR 1060 - June 12, 1996

    * "Deplores" Iraq's refusal to allow access to UN inspectors and Iraq's "clear violations" of previous UN resolutions.

    * Iraq must cooperate fully with UN weapons inspectors and allow immediate, unconditional and unrestricted access.

UNSCR 1115 - June 21, 1997

    * "Condemns repeated refusal of Iraqi authorities to allow access" to UN inspectors, which constitutes a "clear and flagrant violation" of UNSCR 687, 707, 715, and 1060.

    * Iraq must cooperate fully with UN weapons inspectors and allow immediate, unconditional and unrestricted access.

    * Iraq must give immediate, unconditional and unrestricted access to Iraqi officials whom UN inspectors want to interview.

UNSCR 1134 - October 23, 1997

    * "Condemns repeated refusal of Iraqi authorities to allow access" to UN inspectors, which constitutes a "flagrant violation" of UNSCR 687, 707, 715, and 1060.

    * Iraq must cooperate fully with UN weapons inspectors and allow immediate, unconditional and unrestricted access.

    * Iraq must give immediate, unconditional and unrestricted access to Iraqi officials whom UN inspectors want to interview.

UNSCR 1137 - November 12, 1997

    * "Condemns the continued violations by Iraq" of previous UN resolutions, including its "implicit threat to the safety of" aircraft operated by UN inspectors and its tampering with UN inspector monitoring equipment.

    * Reaffirms Iraq's responsibility to ensure the safety of UN inspectors.

    * Iraq must cooperate fully with UN weapons inspectors and allow immediate, unconditional and unrestricted access.

UNSCR 1154 - March 2, 1998

    * Iraq must cooperate fully with UN and IAEA weapons inspectors and allow immediate, unconditional and unrestricted access, and notes that any violation would have the "severest consequences for Iraq."

UNSCR 1194 - September 9, 1998

    * "Condemns the decision by Iraq of 5 August 1998 to suspend cooperation with" UN and IAEA inspectors, which constitutes "a totally unacceptable contravention" of its obligations under UNSCR 687, 707, 715, 1060, 1115, and 1154.

    * Iraq must cooperate fully with UN and IAEA weapons inspectors, and allow immediate, unconditional and unrestricted access.

UNSCR 1205 - November 5, 1998

    * "Condemns the decision by Iraq of 31 October 1998 to cease cooperation" with UN inspectors as "a flagrant violation" of UNSCR 687 and other resolutions.

    * Iraq must provide "immediate, complete and unconditional cooperation" with UN and IAEA inspectors.

UNSCR 1284 - December 17, 1999

    * Created the United Nations Monitoring, Verification and Inspections Commission (UNMOVIC) to replace previous weapon inspection team (UNSCOM).

    * Iraq must allow UNMOVIC "immediate, unconditional and unrestricted access" to Iraqi officials and facilities.

    * Iraq must fulfill its commitment to return Gulf War prisoners.

    * Calls on Iraq to distribute humanitarian goods and medical supplies to its people and address the needs of vulnerable Iraqis without discrimination.

Additional UN Security Council Statements

In addition to the legally binding UNSCRs, the UN Security Council has also issued at least 30 statements from the President of the UN Security Council regarding Saddam Hussein's continued violations of UNSCRs. The list of statements includes:

(see link for the list, post too long)

Link

[Dago]

   
   
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Iraq-al Qaeda link comes in focus


By Rowan Scarborough
THE WASHINGTON TIMES


    The fall of Baghdad has produced new evidence to buttress the Bush administration's prewar contention that Saddam Hussein's regime and Osama bin Laden's al Qaeda had a long history of contacts.
    The most conclusive evidence comes in a highly detailed list of intelligence reports revealed last month in the Weekly Standard. Senior Iraqis were said to have traveled to Sudan in the mid-1990s to teach bin Laden's operatives how to make sophisticated truck bombs.
     Terrorists subsequently used such bombs to hit targets in Saudi Arabia and at two U.S. embassies in Africa.
    The new intelligence reports are at odds with a June report by the United Nations' terrorism committee, which said it had found no links between Iraq and al Qaeda.
    President Bush justified, in part, toppling Saddam on the grounds he aided terror groups. Mr. Bush argued that a nexus between terrorists and a country such as Iraq that has produced and used weapons of mass destruction (WMD) could one day result in a catastrophic attack on America.
    "We do have solid evidence of the presence in Iraq of al Qaeda members, including some that have been in Baghdad," Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld declared in September 2002 when he and Gen. Tommy Franks were making war plans.
    A month later, CIA Director George J. Tenet sent a letter to the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence saying new evidence of the al Qaeda-Saddam relationship was "evolving."
     He wrote: "We have solid reporting of senior-level contacts between Iraq and al Qaeda going back a decade. ... We have credible reporting that al Qaeda leaders sought contacts in Iraq who could help them acquire WMD capabilities."
    Soon after the war, the picture began to become clearer. The U.S. collected considerable evidence that Abu Musaab Zarqawi, a top al Qaeda planner who fled Afghanistan as the Taliban regime was ousted, moved in and out of Iraq and met with officials in Baghdad.
    Saddam never moved against a huge al Qaeda presence on his own territory — the headquarters of Ansar al-Islam in northern Iraq. This radical Kurdish group has ties to al Qaeda officials in Afghanistan. The U.S. smashed the camp in the early days of Operation Iraqi Freedom.
    Abu Abbas, the Palestinian terrorist wanted by the United States and Italy, lived a comfortable life in Baghdad under Saddam's regime. Members of his gang took over the Italian cruise ship Achille Lauro and shot Leon Klinghoffer, a Jewish American, and pushed him and his wheelchair overboard. U.S. commandos captured Abu Abbas shortly after Baghdad fell.
    But the most detailed picture of the Baghdad-al Qaeda nexus comes in a letter, held as top secret, that was leaked to the Weekly Standard. The letter was signed by Douglas Feith, undersecretary of defense for policy, and sent to the Senate Intelligence Committee in response to its questions.
    Mr. Feith had testified before the Senate committee in closed session last July. The committee's chairman and vice chairman, Sens. Pat Roberts, Kansas Republican, and John D. Rockefeller IV, West Virginia Democrat, asked Mr. Feith to supply the intelligence reports on which his testimony was based.
    Mr. Feith responded in September with the letter listing 50 intelligence reports from the CIA, Defense Intelligence Agency and the National Security Agency.
    The reports are from detained Iraqis and communications intercepts. According to the intelligence report, as revealed by the Weekly Standard, the letter states:
    •Between 1992 and 1995, Sudanese strongman Hassan al-Turabi set up a number of meetings between former Iraqi Intelligence Service (IIS) Deputy Director Faruq Hijazi and Ayman al-Zawahri, bin Laden's closest adviser. Other IIS-al Qaeda meetings occurred in Pakistan. Sometimes, al Qaeda members would visit Baghdad.
    •Brig. Salim al-Ahmed, an IIS bomb maker, traveled to bin Laden's farm in Sudan and gave instructions on how to build sophisticated explosives. He was observed at the farm in the fall of 1995 and again in July 1996, the year bin Laden left Sudan and established a new base in Afghanistan.
    •Mani abd-al-Rashid, IIS director, went to the farm to meet bin Laden during the same time period.
    "The Iraqi intelligence chief and two other IIS officers met at bin Laden's farm and discussed bin Laden's request for IIS technical assistance in: a) making letter and parcel bombs; b) making bombs which could be placed on aircraft and detonated by changes in barometric pressure; and c) making false passport."
    Bin Laden asked that al-Ahmed, who is skilled in making car bombs, stay at the farm after al-Rashid departed.
    •Al-Zawahri traveled to Baghdad in February 1998 and met with one of Iraq's vice presidents.
    "The goal of the visit was to arrange for coordination between Iraq and bin Laden and establish camps in an-Nasiriyah and Iraqi Kurdistan under the leadership of Abdul Aziz," the intelligence report states.
    •In late 1998, Iraq sent an intelligence official to Afghanistan to seek close ties with bin Laden and the ruling Taliban.
    "The source reported that the Iraqi regime was trying to broaden its cooperation with al Qaeda." A senior Iraqi intelligence official met with the Taliban leader, Mullah Mohammed Omar. Thereafter, bin Laden hosted a series of meetings with Iraqi officials in Pakistan.
    •After the 2000 bombing of the USS Cole, two al Qaeda operatives traveled to Iraq for training in chemical and biological weapons.
     Much of the information in Mr. Feith's letter was compiled by a special team he assembled in 2002. Their job was to study a decade of raw and confirmed intelligence on any ties between al Qaeda and Iraq, and put it in one report.
    The team was disbanded in the fall of 2002 after the report was filed. Mr. Rumsfeld was briefed, as were other administration officials, including Mr. Tenet.
    It was at this point that Mr. Tenet, Mr. Rumsfeld and National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice began making stronger, more authoritative statements on the al Qaeda-Baghdad connection. Some of their statements are reflected in the recent Feith letter to the Senate committee.
    "This is a story that is unfolding, and it is getting clear, and we're learning more," Miss Rice was quoted as saying. "We know that several of the detainees, in particular some high-ranking detainees, have said that Iraq provided some training to al Qaeda in chemical-weapons development."
     

link

[Dago]

U.N. officials had neither mandate nor capacity to police such smuggling. That was the task of the Multinational Interception Force created by the Security Council in 1990, and of national authorities in the countries through which the oil passed. When the Oil-for-Food program was set up, its agents were authorized only to check the quantities of oil exported legally by Iraq, through two specified export points.

That leaves $4.4 billion -- if GAO figures are correct -- which may have been "skimmed off" in two ways:

• First, there is evidence that Saddam deliberately underpriced his oil, so that, instead of the full price going into the U.N. escrow account, a secret premium could be demanded from purchasers, which was not declared to the U.N. but either paid into secret accounts or pocketed by middlemen to whom Saddam gave negotiable vouchers as political favors. The U.N.'s oil overseers got wind of this practice in 2000 and alerted the Security Council -- which agreed, some months later, that henceforth Iraq should be required to fix its prices retroactively, reducing the scope for illicit premiums.

• Secondly, Saddam encouraged companies from which he was buying food and other items authorized under the program to overprice their goods, and required them to pay back the difference -- not into the U.N. escrow account but into secret accounts of his own. This abuse was much harder for U.N. officials to detect. In some cases they did query the prices and, if no satisfactory answer was given, reported their concerns to the Security Council's sanctions committee, which gave final approval to the contracts. The whole program was designed and supervised by the Council, all of whose 15 members served on this committee. Any one of them could put a contract on hold for further investigation. The U.S. and Britain put thousands of contracts on hold, citing fears that the goods involved might have military uses. In no such case since 1998 did they cite concerns about the price or quality of the goods. Only after Saddam's fall was the full extent of these "kickbacks" revealed.

• Finally, whatever illicit gains Saddam may or may not have been able to skim off, the program did provide a basic food ration for all 27 million residents of Iraq. Between 1996-2001, the average Iraqi's daily food intake increased from 1200 to 2200 kilocalories per day. Malnutrition among Iraqi children dropped by 50% during the life of the program, as did deaths of children under five in the center and south of the country. During the same period, polio was eradicated from Iraq, thanks to vaccination campaigns funded by the program.

The combined pressures of sanctions and Saddam's oppressive regime undoubtedly made the '90s a dark decade for most Iraqis. The blame belongs mainly to Saddam, who not only imposed his brutal rule but also brought down the wrath of the world on his country -- first by invading Kuwait and then by refusing full cooperation with U.N. disarmament inspectors. The Oil-for-Food program was an effort to spare ordinary Iraqis some of the bitter hardships that their leaders had brought upon them. No doubt it could have been better designed, and better implemented. But in its basic mission, it succeeded.

link

[Dago]

Boroda,

Would you like me to do any more research that that you seem to be incapable of doing for yourself?   Sad reflection on the Russian educational system, and a reiteration of the suspicion held regarding the Russian Propaganda Ministry.  

I will admit your English is very good, and I dont speak Russian.

How about now, instead of me proving my points, now you prove my statements wrong?

dago

[Boroda]

Re: the list of UN resolutions that Iraq violated

I don't need this flood-list, I only want you to show me when and where UN entitled US of A to use military force against Iraq. A decision to use military force against Iraq had to be made by UN SC or GA, not by some looney from White house just because he was "assinated" by Iraq. In your case it's an open and criminal agression against souverign state. So it goes.

I am talking about one things, and you reply me about absolutely different, just as if you didn't read my posts at all.

Let's see. You wrote: "Iraq was in direct violation of the peace accords signed that ended Desert Storm and as a result was subject to attack." I replied: "This could not be a subject to attack. Look at the UN resolutions - they don't mention any conditions to use force against Iraq without UN SC or General Assembly decision."

And now, instead of showing me when, who, and why entitled USA to use military force against Iraq, overthrow it's democratically elected government and occupy this souverign country - you try to drown me in some useless information that everyone knows. I still wait for you to show me the UN resolution to use force against Iraq after 1991.

Yor next flood is a quote from "Washington Times" that is well-known for distorting facts and using fake evidence. This is not a valid source. Even if it was - most of the facts are dated 1992-1998, when US openly supported Taliban and didn't think that Al Quaeda was a danger to the US. It's like demanding Rumsfeld to be arrested and sent to a dog's cage in Guantanamo because he shook hands with his friend Saddam Hussein in 1983. Was a link to Al Quaeda enough to start a war? Al Quaeda operates in Chechnya, and provides training and support to Chechen terrorists, but regardless to this facts admitted by US Department of State - you give political asylum to Chechen terrorists. And some vague rumourish connection between Saddam and Al Quaeda is a reason enough for you to start a war?! Looks like political schizophrenia to me.

Then, "oil for food" violations. If you think that such practice is uncommon for the US - you're mistaken. Every government does such things as intentional underpricing and overpricing, I think you use this tricks to avoid taxes to. I do it personally when I need to get extra money for contracts when I deal with government structures (shame on me). But you miss the main point in that article: "Finally, whatever illicit gains Saddam may or may not have been able to skim off, the program did provide a basic food ration for all 27 million residents of Iraq." Did you or any of your relatives ever suffer from hunger?

[Dago]

ahhh Boroda,

As expected, nothing significant in response, just useless crap.

I gave you what you asked for, you offer nothing.  You have not proven me wrong.

It would be quicker to say you are mistaken than all that nonsense.  


You offer nothing, post zero proof of anything, and try and make it someone elses failure.   Sad.

But, again, I accept it as not really your fault, more an indictment of the Russian educational system and their failures.

dago

[Boroda]

Originally posted by Dago
ahhh Boroda,

As expected, nothing significant in response, just useless crap.

I gave you what you asked for, you offer nothing.  You have not proven me wrong.

It would be quicker to say you are mistaken than all that nonsense.  

Again, and this time slowly:

You wrote: "Iraq was in direct violation of the peace accords signed that ended Desert Storm and as a result was subject to attack." I replied: "This could not be a subject to attack. Look at the UN resolutions - they don't mention any conditions to use force against Iraq without UN SC or General Assembly decision."

Did the UN approve a war against Iraq? I say - no. Show me any document that says that Iraq must (or can) be forced to follow UN resolutions by invasion? Looks like you misunderstand the basic principles of the UN charter.

Or is it You who avoids answering my direct questions?

Originally posted by Dago
You offer nothing, post zero proof of anything, and try and make it someone elses failure.   Sad.

But, again, I accept it as not really your fault, more an indictment of the Russian educational system and their failures.

dago

Well, at least they have taught me to speak English somehow It only took 9 years

I finished my education in 1993, had to quit university after 4 years I hope you understand that I didn't study an American propaganda version of Gulf war and events that followed it, I took my last history exam in 1989.

Another question is the reasons enough for you and for me to start a war. Fortunately - your country was never under foreign occupation, you didn't wage wars on your own land for almost 150 years, while Russia was invaded from the West at least every 50-100 years, so, we know what War means t the people, and for Russians there is hardly any reason enough to start a war. War is the most horrible thing you can imagine I just try to point some cultural differences between our nations...

BTW, did you hear about apartment bombings in Russia in 1999? Did you hear about Chechen invasion in Dagestan? I hope you have heard about a "Nord-Ost" theatre attack in 2002 in Moscow... Even under such an obvious threat many Russians still think that we had to leave Chechens alone and not start an "anti-terrorist operation" (an official name for Chechen war).

[Dago]

Still no proof?   Can't prove anything????

I accept your surrender.

respectfully,

dago

[Boroda]

Originally posted by Dago
Still no proof?   Can't prove anything????

I accept your surrender.

respectfully,

dago

No proof of what?!

I asked a direct question, you provided me with a useless flood instead of an answer.

I leave for home now, it's 23:30 here now, so I hope by tomorrow you'll give me some proof that US war against Iraq was defensive, not agressive.

[Dago]

In a gesture of goodwill, I will allow you to keep your personal sidearm and cerimonial sword in you surrender.

dago

(btw, i gave proof, challenged you to do same, you gave nothing.  hence, I can but accept your surrender)

[Dago]

Oh yeah Boroda, as you have now prostrated yourself at my feet, I think it would be appropriate to call me "Sir" in the future.





dago

[GreenCloud]

Your brave armed forces started an unprovoked agressive war against Iraq and now occupy the country,


I guess shooting at UN jets patrolling is ."just Kidding"...and sending checks to terrorists organization was .."bread money"

Borada..somteimes you sound educated and have some common sense..

but then you say some truly moronic crap..it really just crushes your arguments

[Dago]

Your brave armed forces started an unprovoked agressive war against Iraq and now occupy the country,  

Unprovoked?  Have you seen the price of oil lately?

dago

[Count]

Dago, pls, tell me of the great American victories in Afghanistan.