ENY disablements

[Don]

>>GET A GRIP and ride another plane. I know some of u can't so it's an ideal time to start.... start with the spit 1. After summer hols when the rooks are back to 237 players on a Sunday spit 1's will be rooks limit<<

Hmmm, a typical response to a set of valid concerns about changes which have ocurred, and were not expected. If there was whining to be done, it already occured, and resulted in a move which isn't all that pleasing or effective. ;(

IMO, there could have been a different fix or remedy, such as perking the eny planes with values of 6. Instead, those who have a genuine favorite ride, cannot fly it, or those who usually fly a ride which performa certain things well, do not have that option. This new patch, and move seems to be directed at solving two sets of concerns, and probably won't solve anything ie: numbers, and so called Uber planes. Hell, if ya wanna solve the issue, then why not perk the eny planes when one side has so called advantages of numbers?

The numbers notion is fleeting, and misleading to boot. I fly Rook, and I am telling you true, when we have higher numbers there is barely an advantage; we wind up usually fighting against Bish and Nits at the same time. So, an advantage of say 25 or 30 pilits, or sometimes not even that high, isn't much advantage. So, back to the idea of perking the so called eny planes; why not charge the side with the numbers for the use of them instead of making them available only to the other two or one side with greater numbers?
For myself, it doesn't much matter, I fly F4U's, FW 190s etc mostly, and rarely fly the so called uber plane types. I do however, get a lil po'd when the P-51 is made unavailable; IMO that makes little sense at all.

[Alpo]

Originally posted by Zanth
Also knowing ahead of time the layout is an advantage to the attacker and maybe too much information?

Should we know before we reach destination that field A32 is airfield type Large and there are are "X" numnber of target "B" located at position "Y" etc etc. ?

Is it possible to randomize the field layouts  or contents somewhat?  (edit: how about randomize stratigic target hardness within some guideline. )

I don't think that knowing the base layout is too much information as recon photos were used to pinpoint various targets of strategic importance in a city.

What I will say is that with the last changes, bombing certain bases is much easier than it used to be.  For example, look at a small field's FH layout.  A single formation of B17s can carpet bomb the entire string in one pass and if the pilot has any skill in the bombsight, the odds are most are going down, if not all.  This was never possible with the old small base layout.

Medium bases are a little more difficult but only moderately so.  A pair of pilots can knock it down in one pass if everyone calibrates correctly.

Honestly, I forget the layout of a large base (haven't hit one in a while) but I remember that in AH1, the layout was a lot tougher and it took a lot of coordination to render fighters unavailable.

I liked the randomness of some of the later maps in AH1 (ie. multiple VH huts, etc.) as they added a little excitement.  You knew you were going into a small base (three FH) but the strips and hangers could be in different locations than the last small base you hit.

[Grimm]

Originally posted by DoKGonZo

Overall I think base capture and strat is a fine metaphor to use for an arena game. It keeps things changing, and you get to use the entire map as opposed to just the "furball fields."

- Attack bombers aren't needed at all to capture a base. So there's no escort duty, no specialization of task, no coordination - just the "conveyor belt." The closest thing to a speciality I see on a regular basis is Me110's shooting down the city.


    -DoK

DoK,

I dont know how this might fit into the equation,  but I wanted to bring you up to speed on my observations of a change in the Bombsite for level bombing.

In the begining of AH we had the good old Laser, put it down the chimeny, bombsite.  a single B17 could make a pass or two and pinpoint drop all the FHs at a feild.   Nobody really liked the effect it had on game play.

Then HT did a very cool calibratable bomb sight,  increased bomb dispersion and made it very difficult to flatten a single target.  Carpet bombing became more the norm.   Calibration isnt too hard, but It can be tricky.  Many Guys didnt want want to spend the time to master the system.

This was when JABO ops because the standard way to disable a feild for capture.   Bomber were used less and Late War Allied fighters became the king of capture.  

Iv offen wondered if a compromise in the Calibration system wouldnt have some positive effect on gameplay.   I think perhaps rather than having to hold the sight on a point for Calibration,  Just have an Auto Calibrate button.   You would still have to select the alt and if you made course changes and speed alteraltions your calibration would be off.   It might be enough of a compromise to make Level bombing more popular and reduce the roll of Jabo ops.

Anyway,  Im not sure how this effects your train of thought,  but Its my take on what caused Jabos to become the so previlant in feild capture.

[DoKGonZo]

Yeah ... the A20 and Mosi are no less accurate at bomb delivery than a P38.

The old AW bomb sight was even more comical.

I'll admit I have yet to be able to get the current level bomb site to work for me.

Now, if there was some kind of "attack bombing" sight - even if it was crude - that was only in the cockpit of A20's, B26's, Mosi's, and so on - there'd be some reason to take an attack bomber instead. And that sight was enabled when you picked if you were "bomber" or "attack" or "fighter" in the hangar. So if you want to use a B26 to kill GV's, you get the nice low-alt bomb sight in the cockpit, but no level-bombing sight/bombardier.

But as long as 38's and Hawgs can sewercide themselves on low-level Jabo runs, and still be more effective than an A20 or Mosi, this won't change much.

[hitech]

BTW Doc had a proposal to eliminate suicide runs, went over like a lead ballon. It was a delayed kill on the targetes, somthing like 20 secs. Then you had to be still living after the delay for the target to be damaged.

HiTech

[Zanth]

Originally posted by Grimm
 I think perhaps rather than having to hold the sight on a point for Calibration,  Just have an Auto Calibrate button.   You would still have to select the alt and if you made course changes and speed alteraltions your calibration would be off.  

This is a good idea - since my stroke I have not been able to do the level bomb sight very welll at all.

[Krusty]

I have the perfect compromise for the "auto-calibration" idea!

What about instead of using a marker point for at least 2 seconds (current system) you could alternately enter in your drop speed manually? If you're off, you still miss, if you change speed, you still miss, etc.

Just make a command, like ".dropspeed 192" (IAS, not TAS) and that would bypass needing to "mark" a spot on the map while holding a certain key. (Which is really not very reliable for me. I've had bad luck with it, since most of the terrain I fly over before I drop is flat with no points to mark)

So you still have to click the alt, you still have to calibrate, but you can do the speed via command rather than marking a spot out.


Sound nice? I think so.

[Westy]

I recall that discussion HiTech.  (Very much so as I was hoping for something to come out from it)  

http://216.91.192.19/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=71494


IMO a lot of good ideas were proposed all around.

[Captain Virgil Hilts]

Originally posted by hitech
BTW Doc had a proposal to eliminate suicide runs, went over like a lead ballon. It was a delayed kill on the targetes, somthing like 20 secs. Then you had to be still living after the delay for the target to be damaged.

HiTech

Well, I for one have no issue with that solution, I think it is a good one. I guess the pork and auger crowd didn't like it though. It really seems only reasonable when you think about it.

Damn Hitech, how 'bout that, and idea or position of yours I don't question or gripe about. I hope you have yer snow shoes ready!

[Captain Virgil Hilts]

Originally posted by Zanth
This is a good idea - since my stroke I have not been able to do the level bomb sight very welll at all.

Damn, hate to here that. Strokes really suck.

[DoKGonZo]

Originally posted by hitech
BTW Doc had a proposal to eliminate suicide runs, went over like a lead ballon. It was a delayed kill on the targetes, somthing like 20 secs. Then you had to be still living after the delay for the target to be damaged.

Oh ... I can imagine how well that idea was received.

I think the way to look at this isn't "how do I take something away" but "what can I give them instead that's better and will improve gameplay". Now, I will grant you 10000% it's hard to think like that given the barrels of whine you must get a day.

[Skeksis]

Originally posted by milnko
I was thinking more along the lines of doing away with C-47s being able to capture a base, after all how many bases were actually captured using Paratroops? Instead require M-3s only. And if needed, move spawn points closer to airfields to keep gameplay interesting.

If I may...I am not sure that taknig away the ability of the C47 to capture entirely is quite the right aproach.  Maybe taking a tip from Day of Defeat and having different sized cities requiring more or less numbers of troop loads to take, say 3 for a small city/field, 5 for a medium city/field, 7 for a large.  Then have each form of delivery be worth so many points, sayfor example a load of paratroops are worth 2 points of capture and an M3 worth 4?  Seems to me that this could really boost team play as people try to work together to get enough troops into an area to take an objective.  

One thing that I have seen more than once is a couple of loads of troops being brought in at the same time and all the credit goes to the guy who dropped first yet the other guy who worked his butt off to get that C47 to that city or field gets nothing out of it.

Something that I am certain I am not sanquine about is the current practice of the C47 piltos landing in out of the way places and sitting on the ground for 20 minutes before taking off and completing the capture.  Just how good were the 47s at landing on un prepared ground and then taking off again?

Skeksis

[Skeksis]

Originally posted by Zanth
Also knowing ahead of time the layout is an advantage to the attacker and maybe too much information?

Should we know before we reach destination that field A32 is airfield type Large and there are are "X" numnber of target "B" located at position "Y" etc etc. ?

Is it possible to randomize the field layouts  or contents somewhat?  (edit: how about randomize stratigic target hardness within some guideline. )

Could this open up an area of strategic recon flights to the game?  The more often a side can get a recon flight into and out of an area the more information they get about it and to make teh recon flights worth doing they get decent points and the recon info gets old over time (less info available on the strat map).

Skeksis

[Captain Virgil Hilts]

Originally posted by DoKGonZo


I think the way to look at this isn't "how do I take something away" but "what can I give them instead that's better and will improve gameplay".

Now, I will grant you 10000% it's hard to think like that given the barrels of whine you must get a day.

The truth, if ever it were written. I love the "barrels of whine", you need to copywrite that one.

I'm with you, I'd rather see a bonus or advantage given to the underdog rather than see anything taken away from anyone. It is just harder, much harder, to satisfy as many people when you take from some and give to others, rather than just giving some a little something extra.

It goes back to a simple truism. If you TAKE something from someone as a penalty, you are almost guaranteed to piss them off, even if it makes another happy. But if you give something extra to the other, without penalizing the first, the chances of both being at least reasonably happy are much greater.

But as you say, it ain't always easy.

[Muddie]

Really??? I loved it.  Just remember the excitement of new plane day!!!!

Originally posted by Zanth
Good points DoK, not a fan of rollling plane set though.  Lived that once already.