Killing Chutes, P-51's and the tears as big as horse turds falling down your cheeks

[Hangtime]

Creamo himself touched upon the heart of it..

Sportsmanship.

I consider a chute a defeated enemy. He is unarmed; has discarded his weapon, in effect he has surrendered.

The rest is obvious.

Hang

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PALE HORSES
"I looked, and behold; a Pale Horse, and it's riders name was Death, and Hell followed with him" Rev 6.8

[jscharpf]

>Sportsmanship.
>
>I consider a chute a defeated enemy. He is >unarmed; has discarded his weapon, in >effect he has surrendered.

Good point  

rbn

[Morbid]

The tears do roll down my cheeks - from laughing!

Last night I strafed raxx while he was a-floating down. The little warrior came up on the main channel and told me I was his brand new personal target. Oh, and BD too. Well, it got fun shooting them whineyboys out of the sky over and over. A few taunts and they weren't so fast to come up on the radio and squeak for getting strafed.

If you guys don't understand that this is only a game and are going to get your underwear bunched up so tight over people doing this, then by all means don't pull the cord so high up - 'cause I'll shoot you if I can.  

Get pissed if you want to. Heck, this is just another part of the sim that mimicks RL. Some pilots shot chutes and others didn't. Some pilots got pissed to see it happen and tried to extract revenge and others didn't.

However, I think the whiners make the best targets of all.  

Fly safe, bail high, and pull low  

[AKDejaVu]

Many problems arrise when you try to define sportsmanship in a game that simulates war.  Is it sportsmanship to dive in on an aircraft when you have an alt advantage and a wingman?  Is a 3:1 very sporting?  How about a 4:1?  What about going up against an inferior plane with a one that has it out-classed in most categories?

Rules and sportsmanship exist in sports to help level the playing field.  The main object in war is to do as much damage to the other side with minimal damage to yours... not matter how it is done.

If you feel that sportsmanship can be defined in AH, then I'd like to see the definition for every circumstance.  I'd like to see how your definitions compare to mine.  I'd like to hear debate on each and every one.

Shooting a chute in AH does not cost anyone the game, the war, a life, time, money or anything else that really matters.  Shooting a chute in AH should not be the end-all be-all definition of how honorable a pilot is in the arena.  It shouldn't even be in the top 10.

Example...

Honor in the arena (or lack thereof)...

A spit is hanging out over an enemy base at 30k.  An enemy spit trying to defend that base comes in at 27k not realizing the other is there until he arrives.  The higher spit refuses to come down to engage and the lower spit can't climb any faster than the enemy to reach him.

In the mean time, 2 buffs procede to make bombing runs on the base below.  In both occasions, the lower spit dove in on the buffs and removed a wing only to climb back up and play cat and mouse with the spit.

That spit pilot felt it was more important to hold an altitude advantage than it was to 1) risk losing alt to take on a plane even though having an energy advantage 2) risk losing alt just to keep the enemy from destroying two bombers.

I see people do things like this and wonder what they are thinking when they play... Score?  K/D?  What?  Is the point of the game to score as much as possible, as it is in areas where sportsmanship applies... or is it to protect the lives of your countrymates at all costs?

When someone dives from 10k to straff a chute that is almost ready to touch down, I am not mad because he killed the chute... I am mad because he gave up valuable energy to do absolutely nothing of relevance.  Much the same as the anger I feel when someone chases a wingless aircraft down 10k firing all the way.

So, while I see your point about sportsmanship... I think it is a bit of a stretch to apply in any war arena.  Nothing in war is about evening the playing field... everything is about crushing the enemy.

I'd be glad they don't model wives in the arena.  Then we'd have a real debate as to how honorable it is to take a pilot's wife once you've captured a base.  Its a computer game, not a character definition tool.

AKDejaVu

[Hristo]

How about a neat thingie programmed in ?

Let's say someone strafes a chute of a certain country player.

The next time he bails over that country, he gets captured, of course. But due to the war crime he commited, he gets executed  

Might be fun.

[Gator]

But due to the war crime he commited, he gets executed

Hristo has a point, wasn't it against the Geneva convention to gun down a pilot in his 'chute?

[AKDejaVu]

It was against the geneva convention to gun down anybody in a chute.  Even paratroopers.  Technically, you had to wait until they landed to open fire.  When it came down to it, all countries continuously demonstrated that you protect your homeland at all costs.  Rules don't mean crap when somebody runs you out of your country... or is there to kill you.

The rules of the Geneva convention are a means by where it is possible to punish some citizens for fighting in a war that the government started.  War rule violations and ensuing trials deter from the real issue that a government just sent x thousand, x million troops to their death.  It wasn't the government's fault that these men died.. it was the fault of that guy on the edge of a field shooting paratroopers... yeah... that's it.

"If everyone faught a war fairly, we wouldn't need the Geneva convention."  Actually, if most faught wars fairly, the one that cheated would be the one to win.  War is hell.

AKDejaVu

[Hangtime]

Yup.. it's a sim.

And we're playin at war folks. A game. A sport; a contest of skills and tactics. We emulate war with this simulation.. similar to chess; or football... sport.

And the last time I checked good sportsmanship was part of good gamesmanship.

Same deals gonna go for everybody. $29.95. Yah pays yer money; yah picks yer plane; yah takes yer chances; come one come all..

I ask that you all consider for a moment... this is a new gaming community startin up here. What kinda community it gonna be??

Fom my part; shootin a guy in the risers is like kickin the QB in the nuts when he's been sacked tryin ta make a play. He's dowm.. plays over. Why kick him in the nuts?

You like gettin gunned in yer chute?
Yah like bein kicked when yer down?

Same question; ain't it.

Nope.. I don't shoot chutes. Not even Creamos. My choice. I prefer to play the game that way.

Hang

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PALE HORSES
"I looked, and behold; a Pale Horse, and it's riders name was Death, and Hell followed with him" Rev 6.8

[Dan Pittman]

   Although it was done during the war I have never read about and ace bragging about doing it?  I agree with hang it's a game like chess of course you can drop your pants and moon your opponent when you win but it's just
not done that much..  handy            

[funked]

Amen Dakota - honour is reserved for real activities where real lives are at stake.  This is a video game.  Kill all ya want.  Hell splashing a chute helps the other guy get back in the tower faster anyways.

[skydiver]

Great post Creamo, and with practice we can shoot them while still in freefall, hell then they can't whine about getting there chutes shot! This is war you whiny old farts !!!!

[Gator]

Good post, Hang, I'm with ya!  I don't kick the dog at home & I don't cuss out the neighbors, and I don't shoot 'chutes online.  

My kinda wingman ... if you ever need another "target" to distract the enemy on squad night, LMK.  

[Pongo]

Creamos favorite two things about AH
Big icons on chutes so he can find them.
Open channel so he can taunt the person after.
He implies that not being straffed by him is some kind of honor…..to be earned….
I was going to just change fields last night when he showed up but it was fun shooting him down, and vis versa…I knew what was coming anyway.. and the numbers where fair between 13-24 with both sides trying to capture the other at the same time. Ended up being pretty fun once the channel 1 banter died down.
I would much rather fight a guy that will ping my chute and tease me about it then someone who is (apparently) deliberately warping and remaining anonymous.
HT has left the capability in this game because they want it there and it is their game.
I wonder though. Do his countrymen understand that we cant tell which chute is his and that eventually everyone will be shooting every chute?
I realized I was overreacting to the chuting last night so I tried to get a feeling from the guys on RW about it. The consensus seemed to be that they would never do it.(except lurkers). I wonder.  Its pretty hard not too get pissed about it the second or third time.
Pulling your rip cord at low alt is just another skill you need in AH.

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Pongo
Sturm Gruppe

[This message has been edited by Pongo (edited 01-24-2000).]

[Hangtime]

Gator; I'll open the Pale Horses recruitment office after we go Pay fer Play. Look me up then.  

Thanks for the kind words. Salute!

Hang

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PALE HORSES
"I looked, and behold; a Pale Horse, and it's riders name was Death, and Hell followed with him" Rev 6.8

[Creamo]

Damn, that’s a good point Pongo. No one should feel like they are “earning” anything in reference to my discriminatory chute killing. From now on I will shoot EVERY chute I see. But if I only have say, 1 round left and there’s 2 chutes, I’ll pick yours. :0)

Don’t be worried about finding the right chute. Here’s how I do it. Keeping an eye on the message thread is key. Know where your wingmen are at all times. (you should always know that of course) When the message buffer shows SYSTEM:Thunder shot down Pongo, you know your about to see a chute under Thunders 205. Clear the area and make sure no countrymen are in trouble or there are no immediate targets. Select your guns so it’s only MG’s, not cannon because the MG’s are for tracers and chute killing. (They suck on planes.) Line em up, let em rip. The next step is very important…go to auto level and clear your six. Then watch that open channel message log. Howl with laughter as people lose their minds!


Creamo pulls out basketball and says “One, two, three” (bounces it off Pongo head) “CRY!”

“One, Two, Three” (bounces it off Pongo head) “CRY!”


BTW, those aren’t my favorite 2 things in AH. The open channel thing isn’t really my bag, although I do enjoy calling fatty a Fat Bastard when he shoots me down. It’s actually flying with the WWII Bearcat pilot in our squad. It is thrilling to know your flying wing for the real deal.

[Creamo writes a bad check, kicks dog, calls neighbor a filthy hag, and finally passes out]