Author Topic: No (more) guns please - we're British (Read 6689 times)

thrila · « **Reply #300 on:** October 25, 2004, 05:26:13 AM »

So exactly why is the US disarming the Iraqi civilians if more guns = less crime.

lazs2 · « **Reply #301 on:** October 25, 2004, 08:22:59 AM »

thrila... the first thing you do when you want to take over the government of your country or a conquered one is to take away the guns from the people... it has nothing to do with crime.

beetle... if certain types of guns were banned here we would have tohousands turned in "voluntarily" too.... many are law abiding citizens and most amnesty programs are carrot or whip... if you turn em in by a certain time you are ok but after that you are an outlaw and even stiffer penalties are impossed.

booze... don't drink it and I reeally don't care if a few effite upperclass live a couple years longer by guzzling a couple of galsses of wine a day.... the benifiet of that is so far outweighed by the grief booze causes as to be laughably insignificant...

maybe spook should post some pictures of the carnage of drunken drivers and equipment operators and yes... even fiorearms owners so that "we all knew what we were talking about here" maybe spook should post what it costs in real medical bills and loss off productivity for us to "drink a few glasses of wine every day"

you can't defend booze on any level except that it is no ones bussiness but your own... a personal right... You can't say that it should be illegal because of it's "potential for harm" you can't quantify it's value as a freedom by it's cost in lives or dollars. It can be used to extend life or to destroy life... in many peoples hands... most peoples.... it is a ticking time bomb... most who drink have risked the lives of others at one time or another by driving drunk or doing dangerous things.... drinkers are most likely to hurt themselves or a family member and are a huge drain on the economy of a nation.

I don't drink anymore but was an alcholic for many years... I caused a lot of harm with my drinking... I seen what booze can do. If I never see another drunk I will not miss it one bit. If no one drank the world would be immensly better off.

I have no desire to ban booze.

lazs

Jackal1 · « **Reply #302 on:** October 25, 2004, 08:37:25 AM »

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Originally posted by beet1e
Bollocks. It's only because the criminals are armed that you even need to consider arming yourselves. Nowhere else in the civilised world is this necessary.

LOL Here we go again. Yep the criminals are ARMED and will always be armed. You just refuse to recognize the fact that criminals are going to have guns and have outlets for guns no matter what. They don`t need this" gunshop on every corner" theory of yours. Legal gun dealers mean nothing to them.

lazs2 · « **Reply #303 on:** October 25, 2004, 08:46:01 AM »

criminals armed? but isn't that how this all started? criminals in england are..... uh.... armed... and citizens aren't

So what is englands solution? arm the police... yep... put more guns into the mix. It's the right solution of course but.... too little too late and too restrictive. So long as there isn't a cop car around the crooks got nothing to fear and can be the only armed person around.

spooky never explained to me why he should have a gun and not his fellow man.

fact is, most cops only spend a fraction of their time training with their guns and most are not very proficient with them... the average hobbiest who likes guns is more proficient.

and... even if you allowed unrestricted concealled carry... only about 10% of the population would take advantage of it.. the jews who have a huge terrorist threat on their streets and no restrictions have about this number... states with very few restrictions don't even aproach this number.

And how much of a problem are these armed citizens? why... none. way less than what would be expected from any group of people.

lazs

beet1e · « **Reply #304 on:** October 25, 2004, 10:18:32 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Jackal1
LOL Here we go again. Yep the criminals are ARMED and will always be armed. You just refuse to recognize the fact that criminals are going to have guns and have outlets for guns no matter what. They don`t need this" gunshop on every corner" theory of yours. Legal gun dealers mean nothing to them.

I don't fully agree.

Yes, gun homicides are not new to Britain, and have existed for many years.

But you're missing the essential truth, which is that although some guns find their way into criminal hands, we don't have thousands of gun homicides as in the US. Indeed, a government spokesperson said last week that two thirds of "gun" crimes were in fact carried out with replica weapons which were merely used to threaten. Why? Because they couldn't get hold of the real thing? Why not? Gun control would be my first guess.

So yes, there will be a relative few guns in criminal hands, but not millions - as would be the case with G4A/gunshop on every corner.

10000+ v. 68 is all the evidence I need to support my point of view.

Lazs, if you were a Jehovah's Witness and knocked on my door, I'd buy a copy of the Watchtower just to get rid of you.

Quote

you can't defend booze on any level except that it is no ones bussiness but your own... a personal right... You can't say that it should be illegal because of it's "potential for harm" you can't quantify it's value as a freedom by it's cost in lives or dollars. It can be used to extend life or to destroy life... in many peoples hands... most peoples.... it is a ticking time bomb... most who drink have risked the lives of others at one time or another by driving drunk or doing dangerous things.... drinkers are most likely to hurt themselves or a family member and are a huge drain on the economy of a nation.

...and yet if someone paraphrased your argument against booze and used the same logic in an argument against guns, you wouldn't agree at all.

I have never hurt myself or a family member, and have never been a burden on the resources of any nation. What was it like being an alcoholic?

lazs2 · « **Reply #305 on:** October 25, 2004, 10:29:57 AM »

think you are missing my point beetle... I am not for banning booze. The fact that I have no use for it myself does not give me the right to take away your freedom even tho your "freedom' to drink is a catastrophe of enormous proportions...

feel free to use my arguements to keep the prohibitionsts at bay. They are no worse... much less worse... than the gun banning sissies to me.

meanwhile.... your crime continues to rise while here in the states..... 2003 fbi stats show a 3% drop in violent crime..... a continuing trend..

but cheer up... when you have a bunch of elite bobbies like spook running around with firearms your crime will stop growing.

and... Are you saying that I couldn't buy a gun in england if I didn't care about the legality of it? Sheesh... I never seen anything that was illegal that couldn't be bought.
lazs

lazs2 · « **Reply #306 on:** October 25, 2004, 10:31:47 AM »

oh... and your arguement that 68 vs 10,000.... not much of an arguement when 68 gun homicides is what? 1/3 of your population or so? (and shrinking)

lazs

Jackal1 · « **Reply #307 on:** October 25, 2004, 11:05:23 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by beet1e
I don't fully agree.

Yes, gun homicides are not new to Britain, and have existed for many years.

we don't have thousands of gun homicides as in the US.

So yes, there will be a relative few guns in criminal hands, but not millions - as would be the case with G4A/gunshop on every corner.

And you are going to get more and more crime. It`s just a fact. You are slowly catching up with the rest of the world as discussed earlier.
Laws/bans are useless. They only effect the law abiding. Criminals are not interested in bans/laws with the exception that they make life easier for them.
Gun shops would only help. They arm the law abiding citizen. Criminals could give a hoot about gun stores. They don`t use them.

beet1e · « **Reply #308 on:** October 25, 2004, 11:22:45 AM »

Jackal - have you ever been outside of the US? If not, this would explain why you consistently fail to grasp the point...

Quote

Originally posted by Jackal1
Laws/bans are useless. They only effect the law abiding. Criminals are not interested in bans/laws with the exception that they make life easier for them.

That would hold water IF there were lots of outlets/retail stores where guns could easily be bought. In Britain, there aren't any. Well, there are places where I could buy a shotgun, but I have never seen a shop that sells handguns with any power to speak of.

What you're failing to see is that not even the criminals find it easy to acquire a gun. Where would they go to buy one? Where would the supplier buy his stock?

Laws and bans are NOT useless, hence 10000/68.

Jackal1 · « **Reply #309 on:** October 25, 2004, 12:59:45 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by beet1e
Jackal - have you ever been outside of the US? If not, this would explain why you consistently fail to grasp the point...
That would hold water IF there were lots of outlets/retail stores where guns could easily be bought. In Britain, there aren't any. Well, there are places where I could buy a shotgun, but I have never seen a shop that sells handguns with any power to speak of.

What you're failing to see is that not even the criminals find it easy to acquire a gun. Where would they go to buy one? Where would the supplier buy his stock?

Laws and bans are NOT useless, hence 10000/68.

LOL Yea, I have been other places than U.S. on a few occasions.

We know about the no gun outlets that you keep stating Beet.
Do you honestly believe that if someone is planning a robbery or some other crime involving a gun that they run down to a gun store to get their tools.
Beet, I believe you must have led a very, very sheltered life if you think there is no outlet for guns or anything else illegal as far that goes.
As far as stock for a supplier...... You do have shipping, etc coming in and out of your country don`t you?

Got any idea just how easy it is to smuggle?
C`mon Beet, you really can`t believe the line of malarky you are putting out now can you?

beet1e · « **Reply #310 on:** October 25, 2004, 01:36:32 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Jackal1
LOL Yea, I have been other places than U.S. on a few occasions.
We know about the no gun outlets that you keep stating Beet.
Do you honestly believe that if someone is planning a robbery or some other crime involving a gun that they run down to a gun store to get their tools.
Beet, I believe you must have led a very, very sheltered life if you think there is no outlet for guns or anything else illegal as far that goes.
As far as stock for a supplier...... You do have shipping, etc coming in and out of your country don`t you?
Got any idea just how easy it is to smuggle?
C`mon Beet, you really can`t believe the line of malarky you are putting out now can you?

No, I don't believe that if someone is planning a robbery here, that they would run down to the local gun store. And for two reasons: 1) There are very, very few gun stores. 2) The gun stores that do exist do not stock kit like .44 magnum, .45 semi auto etc. You might be able to buy a handgun which has a range of a few yards...

...which leaves smuggling. Well, some guns are smuggled because there are illicit guns present, and they sure weren't sold at gunshops - for the reasons I just gave. But if it's so easy to smuggle, and the point of sale of illicit guns is so obvious, law enforcement would be bound to know about it.

The fact remains that criminals are thwarted in their attempts to obtain guns in many cases, and end up using old, inaccurate "reactivated" replicas, or just simply replicas - that cannot be fired. Why would they do that? Because they can't obtain the real thing, that's why.

And as a testimonial to the fact that they can't obtain the real thing, our gun homicide tally has remained below 100 for many years. Otherwise it would be 3000+.

Jackal1 · « **Reply #311 on:** October 25, 2004, 05:04:50 PM »

Jump up and down a bit. It might unstick that broken record.

beet1e · « **Reply #312 on:** October 25, 2004, 06:19:27 PM »

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Originally posted by Jackal1
Jump up and down a bit. It might unstick that broken record.

LOL

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Airhead · « **Reply #313 on:** October 25, 2004, 07:18:39 PM »

Beatle, your anti-gun rhetoric makes me so damn angry I could just shoot you!!:mad:

Jackal1 · « **Reply #314 on:** October 25, 2004, 07:50:40 PM »

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Originally posted by beet1e
LOL

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ROFL
Was a great thread Beet. Enjoyed it.
Gotta grab a shovel and bury Ole Paint.
We`ve rode this horse into the ground.
Cheers!