Author Topic: Ukraine (Read 2422 times)

Boroda · « **on:** November 22, 2004, 12:14:41 PM »

Is it in the news in the West?

I am really sorry that Miko2d isn't here

Ripsnort · « **Reply #1 on:** November 22, 2004, 12:17:01 PM »

I was just ready to post a link to the story comparing it to the Florida 2000 debacle.

Whats your take on it?

Yeager · « **Reply #2 on:** November 22, 2004, 12:18:04 PM »

no news except the peterson trial being delayed a week.

You guys in russia know about the peterson case, dont you?

vorticon · « **Reply #3 on:** November 22, 2004, 12:18:29 PM »

russian president callin there election win convincing, that it?

Ripsnort · « **Reply #4 on:** November 22, 2004, 12:20:28 PM »

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,139229,00.html

Boroda · « **Reply #5 on:** November 22, 2004, 12:24:23 PM »

I am afraid that one bastard with orange scarf will start a civil war there.

I already advised my friends and relatives there to stay at home and not to go at any "political demostrations".

We have seen this "democratic" political technology work well in Yugoslavia (where Miloshevich won the elections but had to surrender to "democratic opposition") and in Georgia.

I really love when loosers declare that "any result other then we win" is illegal.

"When someone speaks about democracy - I always want to know in who's favour". (c) Lenin.

Ripsnort · « **Reply #6 on:** November 22, 2004, 12:26:54 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Boroda
I am afraid that one bastard with orange scarf will start a civil war there.

I already advised my friends and relatives there to stay at home and not to go at any "political demostrations".

We have seen this "democratic" political technology work well in Yugoslavia (where Miloshevich won the elections but had to surrender to "democratic opposition") and in Georgia.

I really love when loosers declare that "any result other then we win" is illegal.

"When someone speaks about democracy - I always want to know in who's favour". (c) Lenin.

Well apparently foreigner observers disagree with the election results too. I'm just guessing that corruption was so embedded in the old Soviet Union that it becomes quite acceptable in a democratic society as well?

Quote

A prominent group of foreign observers said Monday the vote did not meet international democratic standards.

The joint mission — representing the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe (search), the Council of Europe, the European Parliament and NATO — said they observed abuse of state resources in favor of the prime minister, who has the support of the outgoing president Leonid Kuchma (search) and the government of Russia, Ukraine's powerful neighbor.

The observer group, which had denounced abuses in the election's first round, said authorities had failed to fix the flaws.

"With an even heavier heart than three weeks ago, I have to repeat the message from the first round: This election did not meet a considerable number of international standards for democratic elections," said Bruce George, the team's leader.

Boroda · « **Reply #7 on:** November 22, 2004, 12:42:06 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Ripsnort
Well apparently foreigner observers disagree with the election results too. I'm just guessing that corruption was so embedded in the old Soviet Union that it becomes quite acceptable in a democratic society as well?

So - you mean that Yanukovich had to win 75% vs 25%?

European Parliament, OSCE and especially NATO are no doubt the most trusted organisation in the field of forcing "democracy" nessesary to you-know-whom.

IMHO, any imaginary "violation" at the election is not worth starting a civil war. Half of my family lives in Ukraine, mostly in Western part, in Chernovtsy (former Austro-Hungarian Empire, Romania before 1940), and I want them to stay alive.

BTW, Commonwealth and Eastern-European observers found some violations, but declared that they were minor and couldn't affect the election results.

Boroda · « **Reply #8 on:** November 22, 2004, 12:42:50 PM »

BTW, Rip, can you please give me a link to the text you quoted?

AWMac · « **Reply #9 on:** November 22, 2004, 12:44:46 PM »

I bet Al Gore and John Kerry are behind all of this!!!!

Ripsnort · « **Reply #10 on:** November 22, 2004, 12:46:50 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Boroda
So - you mean that Yanukovich had to win 75% vs 25%?

European Parliament, OSCE and especially NATO are no doubt the most trusted organisation in the field of forcing "democracy" nessesary to you-know-whom.

IMHO, any imaginary "violation" at the election is not worth starting a civil war. Half of my family lives in Ukraine, mostly in Western part, in Chernovtsy (former Austro-Hungarian Empire, Romania before 1940), and I want them to stay alive.

BTW, Commonwealth and Eastern-European observers found some violations, but declared that they were minor and couldn't affect the election results.

I don't know what "rules" are observed, Boroda, just that foreign observers said there was questionable power being abused for election purposes. Frankly I could care less, as its very apparent that the Former Soviet Union is NOT ready for freedom and democracy. I think you're used to be under the iron fist where .000001% carrys all the wealth.

Oh, and the link is the 5th post down, I can predict your response though..."Its all western propaganda!"

vorticon · « **Reply #11 on:** November 22, 2004, 12:49:40 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by Ripsnort
I don't know what "rules" are observed, Boroda, just that foreign observers said there was questionable power being abused for election purposes. Frankly I could care less, as its very apparent that the Former Soviet Union is NOT ready for freedom and democracy. I think you're used to be under the iron fist where .000001% carrys all the wealth.

Oh, and the link is the 5th post down, I can predict your response though..."Its all western propaganda!"

i will remind you of how many riots were caused at the voting station when supporters of the other party showed up...here in canada, not alltogether very long ago...

BUG_EAF322 · « **Reply #12 on:** November 22, 2004, 01:06:34 PM »

Its in the news here

i hope it's not becoming a civil war

BUG_EAF322 · « **Reply #13 on:** November 22, 2004, 01:08:21 PM »

Boroda u think the european parlement is unfair and not subjective ?

Boroda · « **Reply #14 on:** November 22, 2004, 01:20:51 PM »

Rip, we are not ready for "freedom" and "democracy" in Western way, and I am happy about it. In case of Russia - we are strong enough to stop any intervention into our internal affairs to force it.

I am not a big fan of comrade Putin, and I'll probably vote for Communists on the next elections, but only because we need at least some opposition to the current regime that lost last remnants of shame in last 12 months.

But I saw what was going on here in the 90s when Russia was ruled by IMF and other "charity organisations". It was even worse.

Now look at this, from the link you posted:

Even stronger criticism came from Sen. Richard Lugar (search), R-Ind., chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, who said "a concerted and forceful program of election-day fraud and abuse was enacted with either the leadership or cooperation of governmental authorities."

President Bush, who sent Lugar to Kiev as his envoy, warned last week that Washington would reconsider its relations with Ukraine in the event of a fraudulent election.

European Union foreign ministers called on Ukrainian authorities to "urgently" review presidential election results, arguing that the vote had "clearly fallen short" of international standards.

It is a clear and open blackmail, and supporting insurgency. Let Ukrainians decide for themselves, without some wise guys from NATO making advises supported by cruise missiles.