P38

[OIO]

I hadn't played AH since a few weeks before AH2 was released.


My impressions of the plane on this new version (comparing L model only unless other model mentioned)


1- The initial turning rate that was present in AH1 is gone. Completely.

I consider this a huge nerf for the plane, as the real 38 was known for this feature.

2- Autoretracting flaps. Still screwing all 38 versions over and then some. HTC has done great things with the game...but c'mon guys, this autoretract fairyness has gone long enough. 3+ years??

3- Cockpit visibility (foward) :

P-38G: The glass is placed too low. See Pic:



The upper portion of the glass is not below the frame but over the frame not blocking much of the view. In AH2 is blocks almost a third of the foward visibility.

P-38J&L : The foward-up arc frame is too thick..waay too thick...see pic:

 

Altimeter: The red marker indicating 10k alt is ... well, impossible to see.

Ammo counters, while not present in the real 38, are almost completely obscured by the wheel yoke. Can it not be placed directly under the gunsight... or why not, on the middle of the wheel yoke itself?

(though im all for removing ammo counters from all planes that didnt have them imo  )

38L: Dive flaps: Still not producing the upward 2g to 3g pull when deployed after entering high speeds. Sample of this found documented in P38 test pilot remarks on magazines issued to ww2 38 pilots.

 

[OIO]

another view of the 38J cockpit:



and another ..

 

[lasersailor184]

Ok, this is the last time I'm going to explain it.


The way auto retracting flaps works is if the current system wasn't in place, they would break at the speed at which they retract.

You would not gain further usefullness by having the flaps out at that speed.  You will only cripple your plane.

[OIO]

laser theres many alternatives to retract or break-off. Im just posting it as an observation. it is a *critical* thing for the p-38 and its been going on for too long. It was the very reason why I left AH1 and its the very reason why I will sadly not resubscribe to AH2.

i still say that increasing the autoretract speed by 100mph (I said AUTORETRACT, not that players can deploy flaps 100mph above that what they can now) BUT making the plane shake like a compressed mofo during those 100mph is the best solution. If my plane shakes I cant shoot, but at least I wont lose my flaps or lose the fight because in a tight turn with 3/4ths flaps down in a knife fight my speed indicator hits the freaking retract tickmark for a split second .. the flap pulls up as im pulling hard on the stick and the plane of course spins out of control and the guy that im about to shoot down suddenly finds a spinning 38 that was on his tail as an easy kill. Nothing can piss you off more than that.

[bunch]

I've read a lot of books by WW2 pilots, never have I seen mentioned someone exceeding Vfe w/ flaps deployed so much that something happens.  What happens IRL if you do this? tail stall? flaps fall off? wing dammage? Pilot labled a dilbert?

[OIO]

The fowler flaps do not blow back up from windforce because they slide in rails towards the rear of the wing. Sort of the same thing as a computer desk's keyboard tray slides in and out of the desk.  

There are some accounts of 38's returning with structural wing damage and flaps jammed from overspeed, but ive never seen or heard of  any that got ripped off.

[Karnak]

OIO,

If you want to play "Flapfest: The Combat", try Il-2:FB:AEP.  You can flap away to your merry contentment, ne'er worrying about flying in a semi-realistic manner.

[leitwolf]

I have yet to understand what this fuzz about the flaps in the 38 is all about.
I do fly it alot but I havent' noticed anything wrong with it. Yes they autoretract and it throws off your aim at times. So what.
Try a 190 if you think the P-38 has bad flaps.

[Ack-Ack]

The dive flaps work on the P-38L just fine.  You need to have combat trim turned off and the elevators trimmed to as close as neutral as you can get though.  

IMO, the P-38L became a better plane in AH2.  I don't see how you can say it was 'nerfed'.  It was one of the planes that got a big boost from the flight model revision that was introduced in AH2.


It surprising how some of the most vocal people in this game about adding 'realism' are also the most vocal about not ditching the auto-retracting flaps system.  What are they afraid of?  What is so scary about replacing a system that did not exist on most planes with a system that will model the damage to the flaps from over-speeding/stress?


ack-ack

[Straiga]

It surprising how some of the most vocal people in this game about adding 'realism' are also the most vocal about not ditching the auto-retracting flaps system. What are they afraid of? What is so scary about replacing a system that did not exist on most planes with a system that will model the damage to the flaps from over-speeding/stress?

I agree if the flaps were deployed at a given speed. By the use of flap drag you can better maintain this speed. But when the flaps go away, then you lose the drag and lift and the shot so then whats the point of having flaps to begin with. Put a noise in, like when your compressing or something that lets you know about flap over speed. But let us manipulate the flaps not auto.

Straiga

[OIO]

Karnak, ive played IL2 and the flapfest you mention exists because players can use flaps whenever they freaking want (pretty much).

that is NOT what i want.

What I want is to have the exact same system we have now... meaning you CANT deploy 1 notch of flaps at 400mph.. you can only deploy the first notch at around 240 mph, 2nd at around 200, etc etc (as it is in the game NOW)

What I want is for the flaps NOT to autoretract at their current retract speed.. but rather currentautoretractspeed+100mph. After that they do autoretract.

And this would apply to all planes not just the 38... since no other plane suffers from flap retraction as horribly as the 38 it would be a fair thing to do for all planes AND it fixes the 38's problem.

Leit: the 38's flaps retract and cause the aircraft to spin out of control. Thats the problem. a 190 uses flaps as a last resort and at really low speeds, the 38 HAS to use flaps under 250mph or anything will turn inside it.

ack-ack: the dive flaps had 2 distinct effects on the aircraft depending on when they were deployed. The imagedump link i posted reads:

"...you start down, and as you accelerate and start closing in (on bandit), you notice your airspeed indicator winding up, and then you decide to extend dive flaps. As the flaps extend, the nose will tend to pull up,  and even if you put plenty of foward pressure on the control column it will be darn near impossible to keep him in your sights.

DIVE FLAPS EXTENDED AT HIGH SPEED TEND TO CHANGE YOUR LONGITUDINAL DIRECTION BY PICKING YOUR NOSE UP.

If you had put the flaps down to begin with, there would have been no tendency for directional change and you would have had a steady gun platform all the way."

Sound like what its in AH2? Not really imo. at best the dive flaps in the game give you minimal control of the plane under compression so you can pull nose up... but its pointless to even use them as trimming the nose up pulls the plane out of compressed dive much much faster.

I said it was nerfed in the manouvering dept. Its still as good a B&Z plane as in AH1. The snap-turn is gone. You cant clover-leaf with the 38 (snap-turn, let go of stick and accelerate, snap-turn, ,let go of stick and accelerate)... sciscors suffer lots from nose not being able to be pulled up fast enough.... you know its almost like the 38L in AH2 didnt have the hydraulic flight controls in the elevators.

[Karnak]

OIO,

When I see you advocating to get flaps for the US aircraft at 350mph I see that as a blunt request for "Flapfest II: Online Combat".  Do that and there is no reason to fly anthing other than US aircraft.  You already have a P-38 that matches a frickin' Spitfire Mk V's turn capability despite having nearly double the wingloading.  But that miracle isn't enough for you, oh no, you need to be able to start to out turn it where it cannot possibly turn.

Good grief.

[OIO]

"You already have a P-38 that matches a frickin' Spitfire Mk V's turn capability despite having nearly double the wingloading."

you're on crack.

1st notch of 38 flaps wont be deployable at 350. They will remain extended up until then. Big difference.

The drag from the flaps will make the accelerating or even retaining 350mph to be neigh impossible unless you on a sustained dive. And you WONT accelerate to 350 on a turning fight. And the P-38 is the best accelerating US aircraft.

It wont be flapfest at 350mph.

[killnu]

When I see you advocating to get flaps for the US aircraft at 350mph

i havent seen that request in this thread anywhere...

[frank3]