Author Topic: All Union Brothers and Sisters (Read 3056 times)

Steve · « **Reply #165 on:** March 13, 2005, 05:50:13 PM »

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The employees have a right to form a bargining unit (union) to negotiate with the company a fair wage

FAIR wage sounds good to me. When I have a problems with Unions is already posted in this thread, please read it.

Sled · « **Reply #166 on:** March 13, 2005, 07:03:50 PM »

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When I have a problems with Unions is already posted in this thread, please read it.

Really? Where? I just looked at your post on this thread. I see this one.....

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It's amazing to me that there are people out there who are stupid enough to believe that any organization that forces a wage to be paid to someone whos skills are not commensurate w/ said wage is a boon to anyone.

..... That was your first post here. But we allready discussed that. I don't see a post where you state YOUR problems with Unions in this country.

Maybe I missed it

Steve · « **Reply #167 on:** March 13, 2005, 07:19:28 PM »

You just posted it

Sled · « **Reply #168 on:** March 13, 2005, 07:30:10 PM »

Ok Then, as we already discussed. That is a problem with some Unions. As I remember you were happy to know that is not a problem with most Unions I know of. Mainly construction Unions mine included.

IBEW LU 1547

Urchin · « **Reply #169 on:** March 13, 2005, 08:18:06 PM »

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Originally posted by Steve
Urchin, we were still talking about minimum wage, not how much CEO's make compared to their employees.

FYI 21% profit margin is a long way from abhorrent.

As for CEO compensation, I am not sure we really disagree here. Let me explain: I feel, as I've already posted in this thread, that any officer who votes himself/herself a pay raise and/or bonus while the company is in the red, layoffs are looming, benifits being reduced, etc, that said officer is a greedy, immoral jackarse.

OTOH, do you not agree that any person in the US is entitled to make as much money as they can get? Land of opportunity?
Ideally, these persons are not making money while others in their organization are not being failry compensated.

Well, given the state of the country, I'd imagine that most of the CEO's are making a killing, while most of the employees aren't even making a living wage (at least in the "service industry", which is the only one growing in this country).

And yes, we agree on the CEO issue apparently. I tend to get somewhat foamy at the mouth when discussing these things lol.

As far as your last point, no.. I do not agree that any person is this country is entitled to make as much money as they can make. I seriously think it gets to the absurd. I think at the very least, people making a huge amount of money should be taxed VERY heavily on the surplus. Honestly... once you are making 100 million a year, do you need more? Can you actually spend that much money in a year? I couldn't if I tried, unless I went out and bought a country or something.

I think this country has gotten seriously off-kilter. On the one hand, we have more filthy rich people then any other industrialized nation. On the other hand, we have no health insurance for 25% of the population, rampant poverty in cities (and elsewhere).. etc. I personally find it repugnant, although I can understand why someone might not, at least if they aspire to be that 1/10,000,000 that actually makes it to "filthy rich".

Steve · « **Reply #170 on:** March 13, 2005, 08:40:32 PM »

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I think at the very least, people making a huge amount of money should be taxed VERY heavily on the surplus

I disagree so strongly with this that I almost yelled it at my monitor, lol.

Why should one person, who uses the same highways, hospitals, public resources pay more than the next person? You complained earlier about things being fair... fair would be that everyone paid the same amount.

Steve · « **Reply #171 on:** March 13, 2005, 08:42:11 PM »

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although I can understand why someone might not, at least if they aspire to be that 1/10,000,000 that actually makes it to "filthy rich".

Guilty, your honor! That's me, I'm striving to be in the top 1%.*

* I'm nowhere close. According to most charts I'm around the 89th percentile.

JB88 · « **Reply #172 on:** March 13, 2005, 08:45:10 PM »

fixed flat tax.
fixed national sales tax plus fixed state tax benifit derivative of input.

anyone agree.

Sled · « **Reply #173 on:** March 13, 2005, 08:49:16 PM »

You said it 88!!

FLAT TAX! everyone pays the same percent of there income. 88, Sled, Steve, General Motors, Microsoft, EVERYONE!

Urchin · « **Reply #174 on:** March 13, 2005, 08:53:59 PM »

I disagree with a flat sales tax for the same reason I disagree with a flat income tax. Both put a substantial burden on the poor, albeit in slightly different ways.

A flat income tax, while seeming more "fair" than a graduated one, affects the poor disproportionatly. 20% of 10,000 dollars means a lot more to someone making 10,000 dollars than 20% of 10 million does to someone making 10 million.

2,000 dollars is food for the year for someone making 10,000... 2,000,000 is just another mansion for someone making 10,000,000.

A flat sales tax affects poor people disproportionatly simply because the less money you make, the more you HAVE to spend simply to survive.

89th percentile isn't to shabby I'd say, Steve. You make more money than ~90% of the people in the country. I guess I was just raised poorly, or something that should be there is missing.. I just don't have that drive to be more "successful" than everyone else, especially if it means grinding other people into the dust. I'd rather have 10 people making 60,000 a year than 1 person making 590,000 and 9 people making 1,100 dollars a year.

That seems more "fair" to me... even if 1 of those 10 people doesn't "deserve" to have that much money.

Sled · « **Reply #175 on:** March 13, 2005, 09:11:07 PM »

That's easy Urchin, just have a Minimum Income. You make less than $20,000- $30,000 no tax for you. with Microsoft and the like kicking in 10%, that would work fine.

JB88 · « **Reply #176 on:** March 13, 2005, 09:14:01 PM »

a national sales tax would relieve the burden, thereby allowing for a lower flat tax.

those who spend more contribute more.

Toad · « **Reply #177 on:** March 13, 2005, 09:15:55 PM »

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Originally posted by Lazerus
Just out of curiosity Toad, when was the last time you worked in a plant or a wharehouse?

About 1973, just out of college, waiting to go to UPT.

How about you?

How about this?

IV. Worker Health and Safety in the Meat and Poultry Industry

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....Anecdotal evidence of the dangers in meat and poultry plants is backed up by hard numbers. The industry has the highest rate of injury and illness in the manufacturing sector. As one Nebraska expert explains:

Despite the hardhats, goggles, earplugs, stainless-steel mesh gloves, plastic forearm guards, chain-mail aprons and chaps, leather weightlifting belts, even baseball catcher’s shin guards and hockey masks . . . the reported injury and illness rate for meatpacking was a staggering 20 per hundred full-time workers in 2001.

This is two-and-a-half times greater than the average manufacturing rate of 8.1 and almost four times more than the overall rate for private industry of 7.4.

The benevolent management and dutiful government is doing a great job, don't you think?

You think Union Safety Reps are "redudant". They aren't "redundant" when they're the only folks actually looking out for the worker.

I'm sure you think the Air Line Pilots Association Safety Department is extremely redundant, what with benevolent management and the FAA, right?

Funny how the FAA considers the Union Safety guys a key part of making flying safe.

As I said, you don't know what's really going on out there.

How many hours do YOU think it is safe for a pilot to fly in one 24 hour period?

JB88 · « **Reply #178 on:** March 13, 2005, 09:20:51 PM »

after about 8 hours in the MA i start turning into crap. oh wait you mean real pilots...my bad.

Sled · « **Reply #179 on:** March 13, 2005, 09:23:27 PM »

(sled thinks to himself)

How did I know this thread would go down this road?