Its not bad being a minority

[TweetyBird]

I read your link. You'll notice the CNN story gave about 3 lines to the the neurologist who examined Terri Schiavo and found she interacted with her mother, before going off on a tangent about robots.

But its pretty much over for Terri. And I hear death is becomming...

>>Felos said that he had visited Terri Schiavo for 20 minutes earlier in the day at her hospice in Pinellas Park.

"Frankly, when I saw her...she looked beautiful. In all the years I've seen Mrs. Schiavo, I've never seen such a look of peace and beauty upon her."

<<

http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/03/27/schiavo/index.html

Euthanasia - the newest makeover.

[Raider179]

Originally posted by TweetyBird
I read your link. You'll notice the CNN story gave about 3 lines to the the neurologist who examined Terri Schiavo and found she interacted with her mother, before going off on a tangent about robots.

 

Actually that was the ABC news link. The CNN link was the one where it says her best friend, uncle and brother in law all heard her say she wouldnt want to live with tubes in her.

And there was a lot more in there than 3 lines.  And the only mention of robots is Kismet.

None of which I quoted.

[TweetyBird]

Oh - here it is...

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory?id=616805&page=1


"William Hammesfahr, a neurologist hired by Terri Schiavo's parents, looks at the same tape and sees a woman who is clearly reacting to her mother, turning toward her voice, smiling and appearing to sing when she hears familiar piano music.

"She is absolutely responding to her mother," he testified. "There's no doubt."

"

To be specific I count TWO lines before going off on kismet.

What was left out of this story - OH I KNOW - new functional  imaging technology like PET and fMRI. But we did get kismet..
Its a 4 page story and two lines are given to what the neurologist hired by Terri's parents says.

Anyway, if you're comforatable with your position - God bless you. I know I am comfortable with mine. I still think commenting on her beauty was a bizarre thing for Shiavo's attorney, Felos, to do.
I also find it bizarre that Felos is a campaign contributor to Judge Greer. But in our times, I'm used to bizarre.

[Raider179]

Originally posted by TweetyBird
Oh - here it is...

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory?id=616805&page=1


"William Hammesfahr, a neurologist hired by Terri Schiavo's parents, looks at the same tape and sees a woman who is clearly reacting to her mother, turning toward her voice, smiling and appearing to sing when she hears familiar piano music.

"She is absolutely responding to her mother," he testified. "There's no doubt."

"

To be specific I count TWO lines before going off on kismet.

What was left out of this story - OH I KNOW - new functional  imaging technology like PET and fMRI. But we did get kismet..
Its a 4 page story and two lines are given to what the neurologist hired by Terri's parents says.

Anyway, if you're comforatable with your position - God bless you. I know I am comfortable with mine. I still think commenting on her beauty was a bizarre thing for Shiavo's attorney, Felos, to do.
I also find it bizarre that Felos is a campaign contributor to Judge Greer. But in our times, I'm used to bizarre.

Really ? The Schindlers says she is responding? WOW breaking news. lol Come on he has all to gain by saying that just as The husbands dr. did. The only one that matters to me is this one.

"During testimony in a 2002 hearing, court-appointed neurologist Peter Bambakidis acknowledged that seeing the videotapes of Schiavo's mother kissing and speaking with her gave him pause at first.



But Bambakidis noted that such visual tracking "commonly occurs spontaneously in people in a persistent vegetative state." After reviewing her brain scans and visiting with her, he came to the conclusion that she had no hope of recovery. "

Court appointed means no bias to either side.

Also just so you know, William hammesfahr only looked at tapes. He has no first hand knowledge. But I guess he is saying what you want to hear so he must be right.

Which prompted this statement but I guess you didnt make it past the Kismet analogy.

Prockop says the video clips he's seen are consistent with a diagnosis of coma vigil. But he cautions that he would not use them to make a diagnosis.

says Dr. Leon Prockop, a professor of neurology at the University of South Florida, who has reviewed the brain-damaged woman's CAT scans.

As for the PET scans you never responded to the reasons such a scan would be worthless.

Greer wasnt the only person who made decisions on this case he was just the end of the line.

[TweetyBird]

>>And there was a lot more in there than 3 lines.<<

Did you forget you posted this? You said the Schindlers *neurologist* was given more than 3 lines. That was a lie, and I posted the source, and anyone who can count can see it was a lie. As is the lie, when you say "oh breaking new, the Schindlers think their daughter responds to them" The fact is the neutologist they hired thought she responded to them as well. Dr. Cheshire thought she responded to them as well, and the discussion could benefit from functional imaging. Even the primitive CT scan showed SOME cerebral cortex. Functional imaging would have shown if there was activity in that cerebral cortex. But convieniently, the slices of the CT scan widely published, show little cortex. Anyone who has ever had a CT scan KNOWS individual slices of a CT scan can be very misleading. The doctors you site think she didn't respond but conspicuously ignore breakthrough technology (PET or fMRI) and the fact there is no current neurological evaluation.

I don't care anyomore - its over. She is past the point of no return and I've heard all this rhetoric before, particularly when it comes to justifying killing babies. So spare me. You feel comfortable taking away life. I don't. We will never agree. I will always be a kook to you, and you will always be decadent to me.
There's no possible way of reconciling the two views of life, and Terri's hope for survival has evaporated.

The only thing I feel compelled to respond to are blatant misrepresentations as you did in your last post.

[TweetyBird]

You know, after a number of arrogant doctors decided Karen Quinlan's fate apart from their "devine" efforts giving her life, she gave them the middle finger thumbs up. She lived for about 10 years without their arrogant "devine" medical expertise. Without uttering a word she revealed them as imbeciles. Yea they defended themselves by claiming the respirator taught her to breath, but I suspect most with a cerebral cortex are confident they were trying to hide the fact they were imbeciles.

Neurological breakthroughs are ongoing. I suspect Terri will reveal a few imbeciles even after she is dead, cremated or not - the records are still here. But being imbeciles I doubt we will learn anything.

I just hope I'm living when they prove cognitive thought exists outside of the cerebral cortex.

[Raider179]

Originally posted by TweetyBird
>>And there was a lot more in there than 3 lines.<<

Did you forget you posted this? You said the Schindlers *neurologist* was given more than 3 lines. That was a lie, and I posted the source, and anyone who can count can see it was a lie. As is the lie, when you say "oh breaking new, the Schindlers think their daughter responds to them" The fact is the neutologist they hired thought she responded to them as well. Dr. Cheshire thought she responded to them as well, and the discussion could benefit from functional imaging. Even the primitive CT scan showed SOME cerebral cortex. Functional imaging would have shown if there was activity in that cerebral cortex. But convieniently, the slices of the CT scan widely published, show little cortex. Anyone who has ever had a CT scan KNOWS individual slices of a CT scan can be very misleading. The doctors you site think she didn't respond but conspicuously ignore breakthrough technology (PET or fMRI) and the fact there is no current neurological evaluation.

I don't care anyomore - its over. She is past the point of no return and I've heard all this rhetoric before, particularly when it comes to justifying killing babies. So spare me. You feel comfortable taking away life. I don't. We will never agree. I will always be a kook to you, and you will always be decadent to me.
There's no possible way of reconciling the two views of life, and Terri's hope for survival has evaporated.

The only thing I feel compelled to respond to are blatant misrepresentations as you did in your last post.

1)Ok first I  misunderstood you . Its a common thing when all we have is type. I was talking about your making a big deal out of the robot thing not her parents dr. only getting 3 lines. I meant there was a lot more in that article than the robot thing.

2)He only got 3 lines because he never examined her. he just viewed tapes.Heck of a way to make a diaganosis.

3)LoL you posted the source? Umm I linked that in my quote so congrats on your "research".


4)Try not to go around calling people liars. It wasnt a lie it was a misunderstanding.

5)I for one I will never grasp why "religous" people are so scared of death. Save this person and save that and do anything to keep people alive. Why? Arent they all going to heaven? Terri will get in heaven what she cant here.

[Raider179]

Originally posted by TweetyBird
You know, after a number of arrogant doctors decided Karen Quinlan's fate apart from their "devine" efforts giving her life, she gave them the middle finger thumbs up. She lived for about 10 years without their arrogant "devine" medical expertise. Without uttering a word she revealed them as imbeciles. Yea they defended themselves by claiming the respirator taught her to breath, but I suspect most with a cerebral cortex are confident they were trying to hide the fact they were imbeciles.

Neurological breakthroughs are ongoing. I suspect Terri will reveal a few imbeciles even after she is dead, cremated or not - the records are still here. But being imbeciles I doubt we will learn anything.

I just hope I'm living when they prove cognitive thought exists outside of the cerebral cortex.

Now this is just crazy. She lived for 10 years in a COMA and THEN DIED. That is a miracle? That is a finger to the doctors? Seems to me like they called it right. She didnt recover.

[Ack-Ack]

Originally posted by lasersailor184
The difference is that Terry is not in a coma.  Nor is she unresponsive.  Nor is she a vegetable.

When almost 80% of your brain is liquid and you do not have the ability for abstract though, you're a vegetable.


ack-ack

[TweetyBird]

>>Now this is just crazy. She lived for 10 years in a COMA and THEN DIED. That is a miracle? That is a finger to the doctors? Seems to me like they called it right. She didnt recover.<<


ER no, the doctors said she didn't have primitive brain function, and could not breath on her own. They called it right????? They were *entirely* wrong, because she did breath on her own. After they were proven *entirely* wrong (by the fact Quinlan was breathing on her own so had primitive brain function) they came up with a quick scenario where a respirator could teach a person to breath. Unfortunately they could never duplicate that phenomena or use it in therapy. But when one is grasping at straws to hide their idiocy, fairy tales are as good as anything. The point was, Quinlan proved the doctors had misdiagnosed her capabilities. They did - plain and simple.

[Raider179]

Originally posted by TweetyBird
ER no, the doctors said she didn't have primitive brain function, and could not breath on her own. They were entirely wrong, because she did breath on her own. After they were proven entirely wrong (by the fact Quinlan was breathing on her own) they came up with a quick scenario where a respirator could teach a person to breath. Unfortunately they could never duplicate that phenomena or use it in therapy. But when one is grasping at straws to hide their idiocy, fairy tales are as good as anything. The point was, Quinlan proved the doctors had misdiagnosed her capabilities. They did - plain and simple.

So what does this mean? She still didnt have conciousness? Did she ever get up and sing a song, or read a book, or hell have a conversation with someone? No, No and No.

If you are only trying to show doctors get it wrong sometimes, just say it. You don't need to proof for that. Happens all the time in America. It's called Malpractice. But acting like she was some sort of miracle is really strange.

[TweetyBird]

>>I for one I will never grasp why "religous" people are so scared of death.<<

You confuse aversion of murder with fear of death - silly you

[TweetyBird]

>>So what does this mean? <<

This means they diagnosed her wrong. They did not know what her brain fuction was.

[Raider179]

Originally posted by TweetyBird
>>I for one I will never grasp why "religous" people are so scared of death.<<

You confuse aversion of murder with fear of death - silly you

No I confuse compassion with imposing your views on someone else.

[Raider179]

Originally posted by TweetyBird
>>So what does this mean? <<

This means they diagnosed her wrong. They did not know what her brain fuction was.

so does that mean every neurological case is mis-diagnosed? I don't see your point on this sorry. Terri is missing 80% of her brain. That is not like the case you stated where the woman was just in a coma.