Author Topic: 64 Bit Pentium 4... any future for gaming?  (Read 3041 times)

Offline gnubee

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64 Bit Pentium 4... any future for gaming?
« on: April 19, 2005, 10:32:41 PM »
Hey all...
I'm just wondering if you more tech savy folks out there would share their opinion on the 64 bit P4 chips that are out now... (P4 6** or whatever they are...)

I'm just curious about them... they seem to offer higher clock speeds than the the AMD chips, and now that they're 64 Bit that may actually mean something in the world of gaming... or does it? :confused:

I'm going to be making the plunge (starting from scratch) and I'm wondering what direction to turn...(AMD vs. Intel)

Thanks for the help-

Scott

Offline Skuzzy

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64 Bit Pentium 4... any future for gaming?
« Reply #1 on: April 20, 2005, 10:17:39 AM »
Do yourself a favor and steer clear of any Intel CPU.  At least until they get a handle on the thermal problems.

And this is coming from someone who has used Intel CPU's exclusively in every computer I have ever built.

But do not ask me about AMD either.  I cannot and will not make a recommendation in that area.
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Offline Ohio43

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64 Bit Pentium 4... any future for gaming?
« Reply #2 on: April 20, 2005, 11:06:25 AM »
I exclusively only use AMD.  Never had a bit of problem with them

Offline Mini D

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64 Bit Pentium 4... any future for gaming?
« Reply #3 on: April 20, 2005, 11:19:29 AM »
I have dual nocona's running right now with the 64 bit extension support. Cooling them is not a problem.

That said, the 64bit option on any of the new processors is not a benefit in any way shape or form for the average user when all things are considered.

Now that AMD and Intel have 64 bit extension processors, there might be more of a push for 64bit support from hardware and software manufacturers. Unfortunately, that support is virtually non-existant right now.

I think the 3 GHz or "3000" solutions are the best bang for the buck, reliability and compatibilty right now. The laws of physics are going to move the race away from clock speed. Unfortunately, nobody knows just exactly what direction "away from clock speed" points.

Offline Wolf14

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64 Bit Pentium 4... any future for gaming?
« Reply #4 on: April 20, 2005, 11:27:49 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Skuzzy
.....But do not ask me about AMD either.  I cannot and will not make a recommendation in that area.


Dang and I took all that time to compile all dem there questions.

But I guess I could ask these two:

Did Northwood pretty much quit making cpu's and if so why?

also

If Prescotts are having problems with heat, why are they like the mainstream chip now? is it cost?

I'm probably missing a whole bunch in there but I dont have a good knowledge base on the difference in the two chips to know where to begin to looks for an answer myself. So I am kinda seeking the laymans term type answer if at all possible.

Offline Kev367th

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64 Bit Pentium 4... any future for gaming?
« Reply #5 on: April 20, 2005, 11:51:04 AM »
gnubee - Clockspeed isn't everything, it what is performed each clock cycle. Thats why AMD's can at a lower clockpseed can equal or in most cases best an Intel CPU at a higher clockspeed.
As an example, if I can do two math problems in one step but it take you two steps, you have to run twice as fast to keep up. AMD CPU's do more 'math problems' per step compared to Intel.

Actualy Intels implemention of the 64 bit extensions are a poor attempted copy at AMD's ones.
Check the web for info on both, you'll be suprised at how much of a 'kludge' Intels offering is.
Same goes for the 'dual cores', only AMD will be a true dual core, Intels are actually 2 seperate CPU's shoehorned onto the one die.

MiniD- Way forward for a while is going to be having multiple cores on one die. Also increasing the number of instructions performed per clock cycle.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2005, 12:00:24 PM by Kev367th »
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Offline soda72

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64 Bit Pentium 4... any future for gaming?
« Reply #6 on: April 20, 2005, 11:52:14 AM »
Until the majority of applications find a compelling need for using more than 4GB of memory I don't see 64bit processors being a big deal.  personally I would rather see us skip 64 and go to 128 while there is still is plenty of room to grow with 32bit processors  =)

Offline Paul

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64 Bit Pentium 4... any future for gaming?
« Reply #7 on: April 20, 2005, 02:19:37 PM »
I cant wait till Photonic Processors... that'll be the day when Aces High run's everything on full.

Offline Skuzzy

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64 Bit Pentium 4... any future for gaming?
« Reply #8 on: April 20, 2005, 02:30:20 PM »
No Paul.  Not true.  When video cards have over 1GB of ram, then you can run Aces High on full tilt (assuming no more skins are submitted).

Mini D, are those 90nm process?  If so, you may be cooling the CPU ok, but there is no way the components around the CPU or on the backside of the motherboard are running cool.
This has been the biggest issue I have with Intel's 90nm process.  Until Intel can get a low-k process in place (which is coming..at least it better be), I cannot in good faith even suggest using any Intel CPU based on the current 90nm process.

Then stuck using those terrible DDR2 memory sticks.  Does Nocona use DDR2?  Sorry, but that sticks in my craw as well.  More heat, higher latencies, and just flat out slower than the previous generation of parts.


Wolf, Northwood is the code name for the previous generation of Pentium 4 CPU.  Probably the best CPU Intel ever made.  Definately better than anything they currently make for the consumer.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2005, 02:35:34 PM by Skuzzy »
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Offline Mini D

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64 Bit Pentium 4... any future for gaming?
« Reply #9 on: April 21, 2005, 12:43:40 AM »
I haven't seen a DDR2 Nocona motherboard. I'm using the PC3200 sticks on this system. I don't have extensive cooling on it, just two case fans and a fan on each processor. I don't think it's significantly warmer in that area than my P2-400's were running before. The video card, on the otherhand, is significantly warmer.

Also, the 90/120nm chat sounds cool and all, but it's really just smoke and mirrors. Don't get too hung up on it. The design and transistor count are the biggies. Compression and densification are the major increasers of power consumption. 90nm just means smaller transistors (and denser). Low-K won't be a cure for anything other than allowing us to put lines even closer together. Power requirements will continue to go up as long as the transistor count does... no matter what we do.

Offline Skuzzy

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64 Bit Pentium 4... any future for gaming?
« Reply #10 on: April 21, 2005, 07:34:13 AM »
90nm paths in the same substrate is going to have higher resistance than 130nm paths will (I think you know that).  BTU/Watt will be higher (I think you know that as well).  Prescott cores do not have a significant transistor count over the Northwood core, yet power consumption is approximately 40% higher at the same clocke rates.
You simply cannot say power consumption is directly related to transistor count, but I also figure you are using general statements as well.  While transistor count is a factor, it is not the only gauge of power consumption.

Take a look at GPU's today.  They are using 3 times as many transistors as they were 3 years ago, with higher clock rates, and yet using less power (ATI's 800XL is a good example.  It uses less power than an NVidia GF4Ti4600, but has 3.2 times the transistor count and is running a higher clock rate).  Funny thing is, ATI has licensed a good deal of thier process from Intel.

If Intel sticks with that design, which they have not shown they are going to abandon, then they need a low-k process to reduce the power consumption to reasonable levels.

Given that Prescott cores are slower, clock for clock, than Northwood (by design), my hope is Intel will revamp and dump Prescott.  Damn thing looks like a hyped up Willamette core for all the performance it delivers.

And, like you, I use terms most people are familiar MD.  This is a topic which could easily overwhelm most people.  Bottomline:  The Prescott design is horrible and should have never been placed in the marketplace.  Intel can do better.
I hope that FAB they are currently revamping will house some better processes.

Since Intel rolled out that processor, I have pretty much stopped keeping up with Intel until I see that design fade away.   Which is why I asked about Nocona.  Is it a 90nm chip?  What family is it branched from or based on?  What is the targer system for Nocona?  Does it actually run cooler than Prescott?
« Last Edit: April 21, 2005, 07:38:33 AM by Skuzzy »
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Offline Cyan

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64 Bit Pentium 4... any future for gaming?
« Reply #11 on: April 21, 2005, 08:44:23 AM »
Skuzzy,

To my knowledge the Nocona core is based on the Prescott core.

Quote
SSE3 is now a feature on Xeon processors, the result of using the Prescott core in the Xeon range as the basis for Nocona.
 taken from here

And it is a 90nm processor.  You can view some more details here

Also a great read on the Nocona v. Northwood to quote an Intel employee  
Quote
Major architectural differences from Northwood to Nocona include:most cache sizes doubled
more Write Combine buffers
increased pipeline depth (number of clocks start to finish)

A majority of single thread applications are expected to run slower on Nocona than Northwood at the same clock speed. The expectation has been that a Northwood would be upgraded to a higher clock speed Nocona, or that the customer wants to use the 64-bit extensions.
 but you can read it here
« Last Edit: April 21, 2005, 09:03:25 AM by Cyan »

Offline Roscoroo

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64 Bit Pentium 4... any future for gaming?
« Reply #12 on: April 21, 2005, 11:43:55 AM »
talk about a screw up .. shoulda bought intel stock when it was @ .42 the other day .. today its at 23.08 coulda made 4500. off of a 200. investment ...
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Offline Skuzzy

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64 Bit Pentium 4... any future for gaming?
« Reply #13 on: April 21, 2005, 02:14:52 PM »
There ya go Rosco.  Was Intel that low?  

Not sure what that has to do with the discussion though.

Are you attempting to ellude to they are doing well in spite of themselves?  Just proves how many suckers are available in the marketplace.  Most people have no clue and Intel is probably grateful for that.
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Offline Vipermann

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64 Bit Pentium 4... any future for gaming?
« Reply #14 on: April 21, 2005, 02:55:05 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Roscoroo
talk about a screw up .. shoulda bought intel stock when it was @ .42 the other day .. today its at 23.08 coulda made 4500. off of a 200. investment ...



I'm sure you meant down .42 as INTC has not been to .42 ever.
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