Now the US knows the horror of 'home-front' terrorism...

[Octavius]

Deja, I apologize for misunderstanding your post.  I don't use the UBB much and I only post when I find something that really affects me.  Your post stuck out with a different meaning in my mind and I posted accordingly.  I don't think I deserved to be snapped upon the way ya did.    

oct

[Swoop]

Swoop's turn.


First thing......DjV.  We Brits have suffered decades of attacks by IRA cowards.  It doesnt matter how many people have died/been maimed by these attacks.   One is too many.  To anyone who's been involved and lost a loved one it really doesnt matter how many other people were involved or how much wanton destruction there was.  Believe me because I speak from personal experience here.

I dont give a toejam how many terrorists there are in the world.  I just know that they all have to be stopped from harming anyone ever again.  Anyone who supports or even claims to support ANY terrorist group should be ashamed of themselves.

On my last visit to the states I happend to pull up in traffic behind a gentlemen with a bumper sticker displaying pro IRA feelings......the girl I was with had to talk me out of committing assault.....but that's just my reaction.    I sincerely hope that that gentlemen now realises what it is he stands for.  There is no distinction.

Whether it be a nail bomb in Harrods or a biochemical device deployed in water systems, the effect on a personal level is the same......you've lost someone you love and would dearly love to find and kill the perpetrator.


Secondly, if you look past the terrible acts committed in the last few days, past the awful death toll and outragous destruction........what this has accomplished is to unite the world against such bastards.   Doesnt matter what language you speak, your skin colour or your political affiliation.......right now the world will no longer stand for the killing of innocents.  

And that is how I hope it stays.


 

P.S.  Replies to this post will not be responded to.  Mainly because I'm on vacation in Turkey and dont visit internet cafes every day but also because I dont wanna hear it.  And yes, I am very emotional right now.

[Dowding]

Agreed Swoop.

 

Terrorism from within is slightly different than that from across oceans.

Steven - I think I ought to enlighten you as to the facts about the IRA. First of all, they were funded by parties outside of Britain. Americans and Libyans primarily, so in effect attacks by the IRA did originate from 'across the oceans'.

Without the external support, they could not have trained or equipped their own particular brand of cowards.

[AKDejaVu]

First thing......DjV. We Brits have suffered decades of attacks by IRA cowards. It doesnt matter how many people have died/been maimed by these attacks. One is too many. To anyone who's been involved and lost a loved one it really doesnt matter how many other people were involved or how much wanton destruction there was. Believe me because I speak from personal experience here.

And in each and every one of those attacks.. what was the international response?  Like I said... the feeling on a personal level is going to be severe no matter what the size of the attack.  To group this in as just another terrorist event is misguided to say the least.

 

I dont give a toejam how many terrorists there are in the world. I just know that they all have to be stopped from harming anyone ever again. Anyone who supports or even claims to support ANY terrorist group should be ashamed of themselves.

I totally agree.

 

On my last visit to the states I happend to pull up in traffic behind a gentlemen with a bumper sticker displaying pro IRA feelings......the girl I was with had to talk me out of committing assault.....but that's just my reaction. I sincerely hope that that gentlemen now realises what it is he stands for. There is no distinction.

And how do you think we feel when we see "this was deserved" displayed by our own citizens?  It is the price you pay for allowing this level of freedom in a nation.  Insensitivity is protected too.

 

Whether it be a nail bomb in Harrods or a biochemical device deployed in water systems, the effect on a personal level is the same......you've lost someone you love and would dearly love to find and kill the perpetrator.

On a personal level yes.  Now, the issue is wether or not the rest of the world is going to join you in your hunt.  Once again... this is the distinction.

We've hunted people down before.  We've had terrorist acts commited here on our soil before.  This is the first time I know of any scenario where a terrorist act has brought virtually the whole world together.  Russia has offered troops to support any military acts we deem necessary.  China has offered to send aid to N.Y.  Think about that.

 

Secondly, if you look past the terrible acts committed in the last few days, past the awful death toll and outragous destruction........what this has accomplished is to unite the world against such bastards. Doesnt matter what language you speak, your skin colour or your political affiliation.......right now the world will no longer stand for the killing of innocents.

You got this part 100% correct.  But what your not fully realising this is after all the terrorist events that have happened all over the world for the last 50 years... why is this the one that brought it all together?

This event is not like anything that has happened before.  The entire world realises that.  The entire world has experienced terrorism on their home-front and know of its effects.  The fact that this event happened in America is irrelevant.  The fact that it happened at all is.

So.. this is not the first act of foreign terrorism to occur in the US.

This is not the first act of terrorism that has resulted in loss of life in the US or anywhere else.

This is not the fist act of terrorism that has prompted international retaliation.

This is the first act of terrorism that has actually united the world in its resolve.

AKDejaVu

[Steven]

Dowding,

How are the IRA funded by America/Americans?  

Please enlighten me because I cannot know all and admit to not knowing much about the situation.  However, I hardly think that the IRA is backed by my govt and I would bet it is only a few nutcases in the US that are probably of Irish heritage.  I personally think the whole thing is silly and very sad, but I cannot dictate any personal feelings to those Irish-Americans who subscribe to the madness.  But please, go into greater detail so I can learn.  Does my government provide safe haven to known criminals or supply the IRA with weapons?  Please enlighten me to the situation with details.  Also, let me know what you want America to do about the situation.

Look at the title of this thread, I'm still incensed by it.  "Now The US knows the horror of 'home-front' terrorism."  Almost like you are glad... like a relief that we finally suffered some senseless death...almost like you are saying it's about time the USA suffers some of what we've suffered.

[ 09-14-2001: Message edited by: Steven ]

[VFJACKAL]

Once again..The liberals in the U.S. as well as the world will ride the Coat tails of those willing to stand up and fight back. It's not a matter of whose had this or that done to them in the past. It's a matter of what should not and hopefully will not ever happen again. This is not a pssing contest boys , this is war.
I hope that the terrorist that did this understand that they are dead men walking. I hope that they feel every pain that is due them. Nothing on this earth or in the past compares to what this nation has seen. Killing 1 or 20k is all the same. They will be dealt with.

Just don't make this a contest of who has been hurt more in the past. Now is what we have. Lets make the best of it.

[Dowding]

No problem, Steven.

The IRA has never been funded by the US government. But most of their funds came from American citizens who saw the struggle in Ireland to be akin to the American Revolution. Aside to direct sponsoring of the IRA, there was also a great deal of support in certain quarters (not only Irish-Americans) that what the IRA were doing was acceptable.

Ironically, the money being given to the IRA was then used by them to buy weapons from America's arch enemy - Libya. This is one reason why Britain allowed US fighter-bombers to refuel in the UK enroute to hit Tripoli in '87.

Today, the former political wing of the IRA, Sinn Fein, still gets hundreds of millions of dollars in donations from US citizens.

 

Also, let me know what you want America to do about the situation.

1) Use the political momentum generated by the attack to put pressure on those protecting the perpetrators to hand them over.

2) If this is unsuccessful, utilize a well aimed, pin point strike at whoever planned and carried out the latest attack.

3) Follow up this strike with a committed multi-national response to the root cause of terrorism and expand this to all terrorist organisations.

4) Help make State sponsored terrorism a crime against humanity.

[AKDejaVu]

Um.. jackal... you're off.

The implication is that this is the first act of foreign terrorism on U.S. soil and that's what makes it such a big deal.  That assumption is wrong on both accounts.

Nobody is saying anyone has had it worse than anyone else.  But to say that the World Trade Center destruction is simply something that other countries have been enduring for decades is incorrect.

The entire tone of the thread is flawed to the core.

AKDejaVu

[Steven]

Dowding,

Looks like I edited my previous msg while you posted a response to me.  You are quick!

But you misunderstood.  What do you want us to do about the IRA?  Prevent Irish-Americans from transferring funds to family in Ireland?  Invade?

Of course we want to stamp out terrorism.  We do not send missiles into Irish strongholds because you are with us in the fight against terrorism and you are quite capable.  However, when it involves a state that is not with us in our fight against terrorism and in fact openly supports it and proof is available that the support is overt, then yes... it is a very different situation and we have to intervene and cross borders.

I still say it's different.  Also, the main topic of this thread is that America finally knows the pain of terrorism though we've gotten slightly off topic.

-Puke

[VFJACKAL]

I agree Deja..It is flawed...I guess what I mean is and do agree with you by the way , Is..Simply..We have felt it..To imply we havent is wrong. However , (i may have misread the tone) I feel that it is not a point of where it has happened in the past any more. It is simply that we should never let it happen again.

[Dowding]

I'm 'glad' that someone chose to fly a loaded airliner into a packed office building?

I don't think you could have been more insulting if you had tried.

I made an effort to go sign a book of condolence today. Not much, but more than sitting on my arse posting gloating topics on some internet board, eh?

I was 'trying' to say that we should unite against terrorism, and more specifically against those who sponsor it no matter where they live or in which country. I used the IRA situation as an example I am familiar with - I was not suggesting America was somehow culpable for the situation in NI.

In summary, I want to see a united response that recognises that all aspects of terrorism are crimes against humanity. And that includes fund-raising.

[ 09-14-2001: Message edited by: Dowding ]

[AKDejaVu]

Dowding,

You are beginning to turn this into an "America seems to think its OK to support the IRA - Hypocrites" argument.

Please stop that.

AKDejaVu

[Dowding]

You are beginning to turn this into an "America seems to think its OK to support the IRA - Hypocrites" argument.

With all due respect:

The bollocks I am.

But since you can't/won't understand plain English no matter how it is re-phrased, what's the point in continuing to discuss this?

[ 09-14-2001: Message edited by: Dowding ]

[AKDejaVu]

You should talk dowding.

Read the title of this thread.  Tell me how it is not condescending.

Tell me how mentioning US citezens funding the IRA then saying how we should be fighting ALL terrorism is not implying what I said above.

Dowding, you found an above statement insulting.  Time to read the statements you are making back to yourself.

England has no special insight on terrorism.  We can compare incidents and body counts all you want.  The US and the world has experience here... not just England.

To sit here and lecture us on our role in the world prevention of terrorism (especially in regards to the IRA) in the wake of this event is in incredibly bad taste.

I'm sorry for you that you don't realize that.

AKDejaVu

[Jammer]

Originally posted by Dowding:
No problem, Steven.

3) Follow up this strike with a committed multi-national response to the root cause of terrorism and expand this to all terrorist organisations.

4) Help make State sponsored terrorism a crime against humanity.

Gotta ask, what do you think is the "root cause" of terrorism?

And point number four - this would imply that we should drag a bunsh of American presidents to the court (and a lot of other leaders of the 'free western democracies'.

Example: Contras in Nicaragua was much a State (US) sponsored and trained terrorist organization that commited horrible acts of atrocities. See Noam Chomsky "Power and ideology" for details.

I don't agree on ANY form of terrorism, may it be of islamic or western origin. Hypocracy makes me want to puke. I'm honestly very sorry and upset by the events in the US, there's no excuse what so ever, and the guilty should be hunted down without mercy.

However - pretending like the US and the rest of the western allience is the light of the world and a defender of liberty and freedom is laughable. The last 60 years the worst terroist in the world has probably been the US, only it has not been scrutinized in the public medias, and in other cases it has been labeled as "defence" against "internal agression" as in the case of Vietnam or Korea, thousands of miled away from american soil.

I'd rather not bring up stuff like this with the late events in mind, but the rethorics here are so biased that I had to provide an alternative view.

Again, my heart is with the victims of the horrible attack this tuesday.  
 

Rethoric question: what are the root cause of terrorism? What is the most effective way to remove terrorism?

Thank you.