Thoughts on the 109F4

[storch]

Originally posted by Redd
You scissor, when you're desperate, at 500 feet over the water , doing 100mph , and you have nothing else left  to try of course  


And the slats are a damn plain in the butt - do they come with silencers ? , keep thinking I've been shot

turn the sound effect to zero in set up

[humble]

Originally posted by Eagler
"scissor with it" when would you do that?

the guns on the spitV make short work of anything - can you say uber lasers?

the spitV/109f used to be the best matchup in AH before the patch which changed all that. Used to win most of those matchups
now the spitV is the superior plane by far, I don't win any against a pilot who knows anything bout flying a spit

the 109f was better b4 they activated the slats feature.
now you have those things clanging in and out throwing off your aim at just the wrong time. Still, it is my plane of choice though it isn't as invincible as it once was

hehe....

I didnt want to go that far....but I have to admit its been nuetered an awful lot more than I thought. Even its verticals arent really good. Got into a "1 on 1" with a zeke(5) last night...he blew the merge, the remerge and so on...but climbed right up my 6 with no problem at all even so.....I missed 15-20 shots from 250 or less on the hop overall....horrible view under nose and 20mm that rolls of the end of the barrel....any italian squads out there?

[TrueKill]

Originally posted by Redd
So an honest question

Have you changed your view that the Spit V is uber/unbeatable/silly/overmodelled , and should never be allowed in the CT  ?  


Is it any worse in it's era and theatre than say the niki ?

its still uber/unbeatable/silly/overmodelled it shouldnt be in early war setups anymore.

[Lye-El]

Originally posted by Eagler

the 109f was better b4 they activated the slats feature.
now you have those things clanging in and out throwing off your aim at just the wrong time. Still, it is my plane of choice though it isn't as invincible as it once was

Dont' ya just hate when yer invincible plane isn't anymore and  something else becomes an "uber" aircraft.

Just sayin'....

[soda72]

Originally posted by storch
yes you are paranoid. furthermore you are a dweeb. aside from that you are a no skill whiner. everyone knows the spitv was the be all end all of WWII fighters and that the spitv was the actual inspiration for Igor Sikorsky to invent the helicopter.  Igor got his idea when he saw downed pilots in the channel being pulled out of the drink by specially modified spitvs that would lower a ladder to them as the spitv hung indefinitely in the vertical.  

I've always like the name spitcopter....  remember when the CT was setup with a6ma2 against the new spitv  ... lol  

You would get on a spits 6 and all they had to do was go vertical and the thing flew away like a UFO.

[storch]

Originally posted by soda72
I've always like the name spitcopter....  remember when the CT was setup with a6ma2 against the new spitv  ... lol  

You would get on a spits 6 and all they had to do was go vertical and the thing flew away like a UFO.

on a serious note if the spit were modelled accurately there would be no objection to it's use from anyone.  it just wasn't that good.  the spitV was outclassed by the 190A3 and the 109G  hence the arrival of the mark IX in 1942.  I just flew a sortie in the MA off of CV67 in fleet defense using the the seafireII I scored 4 kills easily while taking an order on the phone and landed them.  there is something seriously wrong with that.  it should not be so uber.

[soda72]

Originally posted by storch
on a serious note if the spit were modelled accurately there would be no objection to it's use from anyone.  it just wasn't that good.  the spitV was outclassed by the 190A3 and the 109G  hence the arrival of the mark IX in 1942.  I just flew a sortie in the MA off of CV67 in fleet defense using the the seafireII I scored 4 kills easily while taking an order on the phone and landed them.  there is something seriously wrong with that.  it should not be so uber.

I always hate arguing whether or not it's model accurately, I just don't know enough about it to make that kind of claim.  But IMO since the f4 isn't a good match anymore I would say leave the spitv out of CT setups.  (or put it in the back fields like they did with this setup)

[1K3]

Originally posted by humble
Actually spit V owns the hurricane, I fought either Rival or RTR in one in DA....not even close. Spittyhas way to much pop for the hurricane.

note that i was refering to Ki-84... aka the "hurricane" of the far east

[storch]

Originally posted by 1K3
note that i was refering to Ki-84... aka the "hurricane" of the far east

yes I caught that.  

[Krusty]

Storch, that spitcopter must have been unpleasant for the pilots being rescued. I'd personally wait for the boat.

[Krusty]

Eagler, and all 109F4 fans

The slats have always worked. If I recall they were there in AH1 as well. Most memorably in the Emil, but I do recall having them pop out in all models.

The 109s NOW are way better than they used to be. They got a definite increase in roll rate and manuverability. I used to not be able to fly the F4 or G2 at all. I had no idea what the hubbub was about. When I tried flying them in anything other than auto level I'd spike out and spin to my death. They must have fixed something in AH2. I wasn't the only one complaining of this problem in AH1.

My take on the F4 vs SpitV matchup is that it's no longer a good match. The G-2 vs SpitV is better (more power, just about the same manuverability). I like the F4. It even has some kickass skins. But when I know it won't stack up vs the oponents I'll be facing I try the G2 or a different ride altogether.

[Grits]

Originally posted by humble
hehe....

I didnt want to go that far....but I have to admit its been nuetered an awful lot more than I thought. Even its verticals arent really good.

Yup, this is my view also. IMO the Spit V (12+ boost) and the 109F was the single best matchup in the CT, I used to love those sets. The Spit V still held the turn and slow speed advantage, but the 109F had speed, and more importantly it owned the verticle against the Spit V. The Spit V went from 303mph on the deck with WEP to 316mph, only 3 mph slower than the Spit IX and now its far far better in the verticle. Now, the 109F is only marginally faster and its climb rate is LOWER than the Spit V at sea level. It does not have any advantages over the Spit V other than the paltry 15-16mph speed advantage.

I am not advocating taking the Spit V out of any sets, but I do not agree that the 109F has any chance against it unless the 109 pilot has a significant skill advantage, and/or the Spit V pilot makes a huge mistake.

Equal pilot skill, co-e/co-alt the 109F has no chance.

[storch]

Originally posted by Krusty
Storch, that spitcopter must have been unpleasant for the pilots being rescued. I'd personally wait for the boat.

that's what Igor though too.  

[humble]

Originally posted by Krusty
Eagler, and all 109F4 fans

The slats have always worked. If I recall they were there in AH1 as well. Most memorably in the Emil, but I do recall having them pop out in all models.

The 109s NOW are way better than they used to be. They got a definite increase in roll rate and manuverability. I used to not be able to fly the F4 or G2 at all. I had no idea what the hubbub was about. When I tried flying them in anything other than auto level I'd spike out and spin to my death. They must have fixed something in AH2. I wasn't the only one complaining of this problem in AH1.

My take on the F4 vs SpitV matchup is that it's no longer a good match. The G-2 vs SpitV is better (more power, just about the same manuverability). I like the F4. It even has some kickass skins. But when I know it won't stack up vs the oponents I'll be facing I try the G2 or a different ride altogether.

I'll need to fly a couple in G2 to verify this...but I'd say the G2 has less chance vs the V then the F does....simply doesnt have anything worthwhile to exploit.

Now the G-2 (and the F) flat out own the pony's D-9's and lala's unless the opposing stick is good. I had no problem at all with a 1 on 2 vs a D-9 and pony. Got the pony and the 190 scooted till a lala came...got the 190 to auger and had no problems with the lala. If the 109 had better ballistics I'd say the G2 would make easy work of the spitV...but the ballistics are bad and the V is far superior in overall handling....

Now in a multiplane enviorment the F isnt all that bad....in the MA clip I posted I had a nice look at the 205...simply not used to the plane or its ballistics so Imissed...and then spent 5-6 seconds "target fixated"...however the earlier part goes along with TK's comments...plane had no problem with the Nikki....and I was just fine with the 205...had I executed better I probably would of been fine with the other birds.

Pilot skill is a big issue....in a multiplane enviornment SA and pilot decision skills play a bigger part then is a 1 vs 1 off an even merge....far as I'm concerend if the 109 loses the merge it loses the fight vs a spit V...further if it doesnt capitalize on that intitial advantage in 15 seconds or so...it loses the fight...and if it wiggles out of the jam and forces an overshoot....and misses the shot...it wont get another one.

[Grits]

The G-2 can handle the Spit V easily IMO, its climb rate is around 800+fpm better at most altitudes and it holds a 27mph speed advantage on the deck.