Author Topic: deep throat  (Read 1749 times)

Offline Nash

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« Reply #45 on: June 02, 2005, 11:57:30 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Seagoon
Welcome to the real world of Washington...Woodward and Bernstein and Rather and a pack of other editors, journalists, and talking heads flayed him alive because they are liberals and he was a conservative, because they despised him, and because it was a great story they would have sold their own grandmothers to be the first to publish. - SEAGOON


Jesus...

Yeah, it was all about that.

The reporters "flayed him alive" simply because they were (in your words) Democrats. Not because there was widespread crime going down. No... Gotta be a motive. A scapegoat. A reason. A revision.

Couldn't possibly be because it was in fact true.

No idea what this kind of relativism costs you.....

Offline DREDIOCK

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« Reply #46 on: June 03, 2005, 12:16:37 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Hangtime
The FBI Oath:

 

Seems to me the guy did just that. He's no traitor. Nixon was breaking the law and subverting the FBI to cover it up.


Agreed. He's a snitch but he's not a traitor
Death is no easy answer
For those who wish to know
Ask those who have been before you
What fate the future holds
It ain't pretty

Offline Silat

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« Reply #47 on: June 03, 2005, 12:24:54 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by JB88
truly.  lol.


a. the guy who gets a hummy (which in lew of his wife is certainly an understandable...


Hey Im Lew:) I think you mean my brother "Lieu" :)

              :D
+Silat
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"Conservatism offers no redress for the present, and makes no preparation for the future." B. Disraeli
"All that serves labor serves the nation. All that harms labor is treason."

Offline Guppy35

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« Reply #48 on: June 03, 2005, 12:35:59 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Seagoon
Welcome to the real world of Washington...

Nixon lied and misused his office to cover up crimes perpetrated by some of the oafs working for him. He did so because he was a politician, and a particularly bitter and slightly paranoid one at that.

Woodward and Bernstein and Rather and a pack of other editors, journalists, and talking heads flayed him alive because they are liberals and he was a conservative, because they despised him, and because it was a great story they would have sold their own grandmothers to be the first to publish.

W. Mark Felt illegally fed classified information from the ongoing FBI investigation to Woodward and Bernstein for a number of reasons, not the least of them because Nixon passed over one of Hoover's groomed proteges in favor of Gray, a man he knew he could control.

Who's the hero in all this? In my worthless opinion, None of the above.

Something to ponder, I seriously doubt if any of us would be in favor of the "leak first" methodology if we happened to be the target of the FBI investigation. This methodology has been used more than once to destroy the career and reputation of men and women who ultimately turned out to be innocent. By the time the investigation closed however, irreversible damage had already been done. Personally, I am a strong believer in keeping the details of a criminal investigation confidential until an indictment is brought regardless of the individual or their politics.

- SEAGOON


Jeez do a bit of research will ya?  Woodward was a registered Republican at the time of Watergate.  "Deep Throat" was his source.  Hardly a flaming liberal.

It absolutely amazes me how narrow the view has gotten these days.

Open your eyes just a bit please and don't assume that one has to be conservative or liberal to think for themselves and ask questions about the leadership of this country.  Last I checked it was part of the deal here.

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Offline Guppy35

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« Reply #49 on: June 03, 2005, 12:42:55 AM »
I remember the college poli sci course I took that focused on Watergate.

The professor was also the Chairman of the Republican party in my state.

He rammed it down our throats about Nixon's abuse of power.  He was absolutely livid about what Nixon had done.  And he was no liberal.

He took us through Teddy White's book "Breach of Faith" and again, rammed it down our throats and made us understand what had happened.

He never wanted the party he supported and worked for, to ever go that route again.  He felt horribly betrayed.

I pull that book out about once a year to remind myself of how it was.  "They could not trust the king" was the other book he made us read.

Understand that if there was anything good to come out of Watergate, it was that the men and women in Washington did their jobs and as a group recognized what had to be done.

Nixon betrayed them all, along with us.  Considering the overwhelming mandate he'd been given by the people in the election, it boggles my mind that he'd wreck that.

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Offline bunch

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« Reply #50 on: June 03, 2005, 12:44:31 AM »
People make too much of the part Hal Holbrooke played.  Hoffman & Redford were on the trail, they would have just got there a few months later w/out Holbrooke

Offline Seagoon

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« Reply #51 on: June 03, 2005, 01:05:11 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Nash
Jesus...

Yeah, it was all about that.

The reporters "flayed him alive" simply because they were (in your words) Democrats. Not because there was widespread crime going down. No... Gotta be a motive. A scapegoat. A reason. A revision.

Couldn't possibly be because it was in fact true.

No idea what this kind of relativism costs you.....


Nash,

Not relativism, reality. The Post's (and particularly its owners and editors) adversarial relationship with Nixon prior to Watergate was well documented, and I didn't say "Democrats," I said liberals.

In the real world of media, which is the world my father has worked in for most of his life, and unfortunately the world that permeated my childhood, Media outlets run defamatory stories on pols they dislike and spike promising but defamatory stories on pols they like.

For instance, the Washington Post (and Newsweek which the Post owns and controls), the same paper that eagerly printed Bernstein and Woodward's expose of the Nixon administration shenanigans, actively spiked even more sensational stories during the Clinton years - often via direct requests from the Clinton "War Room" to the editor (another fact that has been exposed in several books both right and left).

For example: Spiked -

* Michael Isikoff's multiple source story about Clinton having an affair with an intern and then asking her to lie about it under oath
* Michael Isikoff's report on Paula Jones
* Michael Isikoff's multiple source story about Clinton's sexual assualt of Kathleen Wiley

Now you may say, "well hrrumph, that's nasty sexual stuff, they spiked it because it's no ones business who a politician sexually harasses behind closed doors." Not so fast kemosabe, the Washington Post was also the first paper to run claims by several women that Republican Bob Packwood had sexually harrassed them. In fact, that story had less documentation and research when it appeared than two of Isikoff's spiked stories.

Additionally the Post spiked sourced stories about Gore using pot, while running with single source claims that Bush used coke during the 2000 elections.

Well you might say "this wasn't about sex or drugs, it was about an administration attempting to hide illegal activities done during an election campaign and involving attempts to thwart an FBI investigation." Sorry, in 1999 the Washington Post also spiked the story of Four FBI agents who testified before the Senate Government Affairs Committee as to how the Clinton Justice Department subverted their probe of Democratic campaign fundraising, specifically in the case of Charlie Trie. They consistently bent over backwards NOT to investigate or report anything related to the Clinton/Gore fundraising scandals.

And I could go on and on listing cases where the Post helped liberals and harmed conservatives via selective investigating and publishing.

But Nash you misunderstand me if you believe my point is the simplistic Republicans good, honest, pure and objective, Democrats Evil, dishonest, corrupt, and biased and vice versa that seems to predominate in these forums, my point is simply to say wake up, all of your media outlets are owned and edited by men with allies and agendas they wish to advance. Men like Raines and Ailes and in our own day, and Graham, Downie, and Simmons in Nixon's.


Rent Citizen Kane sometime for an entertaining view of exactly how "objective" the relationship between editors and politicians always has been...

- SEAGOON
SEAGOON aka Pastor Andy Webb
"We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion... Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." - John Adams

Offline Nash

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« Reply #52 on: June 03, 2005, 01:29:06 AM »
'All the President's Men' was the first movie I ever saw. In the theater. 7 years old.  Then read the book when I was 13, then again at 17. Prolly explains why I'm wired this way. Since then I've read many books and accounts of those days. Some good, some not so good.

What's hilarious (no - it's really not that hilarious) is seeing the jack arses, convicted felons, and general scum suddenly ooze, as if from an enthusiastically popped zit, straight out of the dark recesses of our mind to educate us on who the real bastard is...

The guy that wrecked their party. The guy that told on them (not exactly). Deep throat. Mark Felt.

It's amazing that G. Liddy and crew are being taken seriously. Doesn't he have a parole officer to report to?

It's amazing that so many are so quick to attack Felt and the reporters involved in the exposing of, the crimes commited by only the President of the United States.

You won't hear that stubborn detail mentioned.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2005, 01:41:49 AM by Nash »

Offline FUNKED1

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« Reply #53 on: June 03, 2005, 01:31:03 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Nash
'All the President's Men' was the first movie I ever saw. In the theater. 7 years old.  Then read the book when I was 13, then again at 17. Prolly explains why I'm wired this way.


In other words, he drank the liberal koolaid.

Offline Nash

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« Reply #54 on: June 03, 2005, 01:36:56 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Seagoon
Nash,

....And I could go on and on listing cases where the Post helped liberals and harmed conservatives via selective investigating and publishing.

- SEAGOON


Holy... You think you're the only one able to come up with examples of spiked storys?

The examples you used to serve your side were of sex and grass. Ooh, scandalous indeed. A shame that you ignore other examples of spiked storys. A tad bit more significant than sex 'n grass. A tad bit more damaging to your world view.

But you're trying to make a point, so I can't blame ya.

Offline Nash

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« Reply #55 on: June 03, 2005, 01:39:48 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by FUNKED1
In other words, he drank the liberal koolaid.


Hi Funked.

You misspelled "Boosh is teh evil".

Just trying to help.

Offline FUNKED1

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« Reply #56 on: June 03, 2005, 01:41:55 AM »
glug glug burrrp

Offline Seagoon

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« Reply #57 on: June 03, 2005, 02:05:29 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Nash
Holy... You think you're the only one able to come up with examples of spiked storys?

The examples you used to serve your side were of sex and grass. Ooh, scandalous indeed. A shame that you ignore other examples of spiked storys. A tad bit more significant than sex 'n grass. A tad bit more damaging to your world view.

But you're trying to make a point, so I can't blame ya.


Nash,

Perhaps you didn't notice I wrote:

Quote
"Well you might say "this [Watergate] wasn't about sex or drugs, it was about an administration attempting to hide illegal activities done during an election campaign and involving attempts to thwart an FBI investigation." Sorry, in 1999 the Washington Post also spiked the story of Four FBI agents who testified before the Senate Government Affairs Committee as to how the Clinton Justice Department subverted their probe of Democratic campaign fundraising, specifically in the case of Charlie Trie. They consistently bent over backwards NOT to investigate or report anything related to the Clinton/Gore fundraising scandals."


PS: Genifer Flowers was a story about sex. Katherine Wiley, Juanita Broderick,  and Paula Jones weren't stories about "sex." They were stories about a sexual assualt, a rape, and indecent exposure and sexual harrassment. As someone at the time pointed out, "if that's your idea of sex..."

So let me see if I have this right:
Liberals all good, Liberal politicians spotless, Liberal editors unbiased, Liberal scandals inventions of the vast right wing conspiracy or minor peccadillos at best? Conservatives exactly the opposite on all counts!

Have i got it?

- SEAGOON
SEAGOON aka Pastor Andy Webb
"We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion... Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." - John Adams

Offline Guppy35

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« Reply #58 on: June 03, 2005, 02:15:23 AM »
And that's where your lose me Seagoon.

You keep making this a Liberal vs Conservative thing.

It was no such thing when it all came down to it when it came to Watergate.

Nixon tried to hide behind that, making it about the liberal press and the Democrats, but when the truth did come out, in his own words, his defenders were left betrayed and calling for his resignation as well.

There was no one left to defend him because his actions were indefensible.

Again I ask.  Do you recall the time at all?

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Offline Nash

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« Reply #59 on: June 03, 2005, 02:24:03 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Seagoon
Nash,

Have i got it?

- SEAGOON


No Seagoon, you don't have it.

Because this here and elsewhere is and was never about liberals being all good and righteous and whatever.

It was about a President who was a royal shreck up.

So why are we talking about liberals all of a sudden? You should really ask yourself that.

Because I'm getting the nagging and strange sense that Republicans are Republicans first, and Americans second. They are only Americans in as much as it suits them. This is a perfect example.

In the face of (come on!) overwhelming evidence of a scandal that rocked the United States, all they can do is try to feebly hoist blame on Democrats. They ignore every other single factor about what it means to be an American in order that they win win win some argument that makes them right and America wrong.

Nixon was a criminal. Mmmkay? Why do you hate America?

No.... Liberals aren't without their own share of misdeeds. But to enter a discussion about Nixon with the sole intention of saying that Liberals are bad people is weak.

It would certainly be better for everyone if everyone weren't so afraid of admitting their mistakes.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2005, 02:57:15 AM by Nash »