ISO Fighter Ace trainer

[TexMurphy]

Avoiding HO.

Its VERY easy to avoid the HO. Anytime you go for a merge (front aspect) with the enemy make sure to be positioned under his nose. If you are under his nose he has to push his nose down to get the shot of on you. As you know a quick forward push on the stick forces a redout. Aiming in a redout is virtually impossible. So he will never hit you.

Some of pilots do adjust to this by rolling over to a inverted position so they can pull back on the stick to get the shot. This will expose you to a good snapshot if you dont adjust to the new situiation. The situation in it self is very advantageus.

You are gonna go for your immelman and the enemy cant follow you high, since he is inverted. You will always be in a advantage from here on if you survive the first merge.

What he can do is...

a) Fly straight through.

You will have a position advantage but no real gun solution anytime soon.

b) Split S.

You will have high position on him and he is likely to pull his Split S into a loop. A angle fight is on and you do have the initial advantage. Just make sure to not go straight at him as you loop your immelman. There will be a merge in this situation where you are comming from up high and he down low. Once again position your self under his nose to prevent HO shot.

Alternativly as you see him pull his Split S dont flip your immelman over and keep going high. You can rope him here.

c) He will flat turn. You will waste him as you have high position on his six. You should have gun solution in less then 20 seconds.

Now back to the initial problem. How do you avoid the snapshot where he is inverted in the merge.

There are basicly three ways.

First if you spot it early you can just pull up and get above him. This will once again put you "under his nose" forcing him to push stick forward for shot. This is dangerous though if you do it too late as you will pass across his nose.

Second if you dont spot it early enough pass under him and make the shot as hard as possible for him. Apply rudder to make your plane drift diagonally under him makes his shot harder. He is aiming infront of your straight flight path. This will get you out of that flight path.

Third you can also do a barrell roll. But do it only so you get positioned on his 3 or 9 o'clock then roll out of it so you can do a immelman.

I usually do the 2nd option.

IF he doesnt roll over then 3 things can happen as you pull your immelman.

a) he continues straight ahead, se above same situaiton.

b) he flat turns, dead in 20 sec, see above.

c) he pulls a immelman. This is when the fun starts. To win this situation you really have to have been under him. Not only to avoid the HO but to get vertical separation, get the inside track on the vertical manouvers.

At the top of the immelman there will be another merge. Both of you come out of the immelman and are facing eachother. Same deal applies as above. He will either roll out of his immel or stay inverted. Act just as in any merge. Adjust so you dont get HOed, get under his nose. Then pull another vertical manouver. Either you have juice left for another immelman or you dont and if you dont you do not ever flat turn. If you cant pull a immelman pull as much vertical into your turn as you can.

Who ever pulls his manouvers highest will force the other to stall or fall off. Once the enemy stalls or falls off you can just swing around and get on his six.

But dont count on getting on his six after he falls off. You have to work to get on his six before he falls of or he will get on yours. There will be tons of angles to find to work your way into gun solution on his six.

Constantly watch your enemy and use your roll to work your way onto his six through the vertical manouvers.

You really need to fly a few hours in the DA to practice this.

If you ever see me online just whisper me and I will take you to the DA and show you how its done.

Tex

[maoiwowie]

Thanks for the invite...and thanks for the advice on the merge.  Assuming same plane at equal E states, follwing each other in a looping stalemate. Whats the move? Try to save as much E and hope to out last your opponent? Drop a flap or slow down to get a better turning angle and hope you dont miss?

[TexMurphy]

Assuming same planes and equal energy state I would say the one who finds the best angles will win.

I know it aint a straight answer to your question but Id say its what will separate the two. Simply because if one pilot can find the angles and the other cant the first will get on the seconds six before the energy state becomes critical.

If both work the angles equaly well they will basicly consume the same ammount of E and then it will be about who makes the first mistake.  In a very close duel one common mistake is shooting at the wrong time. Shooting in the wrong time can be extreamly lethal as you mostlikely pull your stick a little bit too much and loose position. In a close fight any pull on the stick for a shot will make you loose position and bleed that little bit of E that will decide the fight.

If you view films of the really good pilots dueling the never ever ever move their nose while when they shoot. They sometimes do take a chance and fire a shot that is a very low percentage shot but they never ever pull the stick doing so. Better to miss and not loose position and E.

Also in your question you say drop flaps and turn. I assume you mean manouver and not actually turn as flat turn.

You should always use your flaps accordingly to your planes ability and need.

How flaps are used and when very much depends on the plane you are in. But for example in the F6F and the P47 Im more or less constantly working the flaps when in combat.

But as said it will come down to who finds the angles. Finding angles is something else that one really just needs to practice over and over.

Personally I would divide the pilots in the MA into the following cathegories.

*The totall dweeb, goes for HO shots, doesnt know how to avoid them and always does a flat turn after merge.
*Avg pilot, still HOes but does go vertical after merge, no clue about how to find angles.
*Above avg pilot, avoids HO more then takes it, goes vertical after merge, can find angles, cant use flaps and rudder correctly.
*Good piliot, avoids HOs, goes vertical after merge, can find angles, can use flaps and rudder and knows his ACMs pretty well.
*Ace pilot fantastic in all aspects.

Basicly learn how to merge and do vertical opening manouver manouver and you will be able to beat 50% of the MA, learn to work angles and you will beat 75%, learn to use flaps and rudder in your ACMs and you will beat 90% of the MA. That level of skill can be reached relativly quickly. Beating the top 10%, that will take years.

Tex

[SuperDud]

Originally posted by TexMurphy
Assuming same planes and equal energy state I would say the one who finds the best angles will win.

I know it aint a straight answer to your question but Id say its what will separate the two. Simply because if one pilot can find the angles and the other cant the first will get on the seconds six before the energy state becomes critical.

If both work the angles equaly well they will basicly consume the same ammount of E and then it will be about who makes the first mistake.  In a very close duel one common mistake is shooting at the wrong time. Shooting in the wrong time can be extreamly lethal as you mostlikely pull your stick a little bit too much and loose position. In a close fight any pull on the stick for a shot will make you loose position and bleed that little bit of E that will decide the fight.

If you view films of the really good pilots dueling the never ever ever move their nose while when they shoot. They sometimes do take a chance and fire a shot that is a very low percentage shot but they never ever pull the stick doing so. Better to miss and not loose position and E.

Also in your question you say drop flaps and turn. I assume you mean manouver and not actually turn as flat turn.

You should always use your flaps accordingly to your planes ability and need.

How flaps are used and when very much depends on the plane you are in. But for example in the F6F and the P47 Im more or less constantly working the flaps when in combat.

But as said it will come down to who finds the angles. Finding angles is something else that one really just needs to practice over and over.

Personally I would divide the pilots in the MA into the following cathegories.

*The totall dweeb, goes for HO shots, doesnt know how to avoid them and always does a flat turn after merge.
*Avg pilot, still HOes but does go vertical after merge, no clue about how to find angles.
*Above avg pilot, avoids HO more then takes it, goes vertical after merge, can find angles, cant use flaps and rudder correctly.
*Good piliot, avoids HOs, goes vertical after merge, can find angles, can use flaps and rudder and knows his ACMs pretty well.
*Ace pilot fantastic in all aspects.

Basicly learn how to merge and do vertical opening manouver manouver and you will be able to beat 50% of the MA, learn to work angles and you will beat 75%, learn to use flaps and rudder in your ACMs and you will beat 90% of the MA. That level of skill can be reached relativly quickly. Beating the top 10%, that will take years.

Tex

Very nicely put Tex. maoiwowie, try to read and get an understanding for what he just stated. I can't think of a way to explain it any better. Basically, it all comes down to practice. You have to have patience and accept you'll die for a long time before you even get to the point where you consider yourself avg. Like I said earlier, it'll be frustrating but just remember EVERYONE went through it.

[MaddogJoe]

some of us are Still going thru it !!

Just have fun, and film your fights. Check out the films and see if ya can find where ya went wrong. If ya can't, post it here and these guys will let ya know