Author Topic: mmmmriiiiiight.  (Read 2373 times)

Offline Holden McGroin

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« Reply #105 on: June 20, 2005, 04:22:51 AM »
I'm sorry, I did not know that it was my burden to prove your allegations to be unfounded.  

I figured you had to come up with some basis for your theory.

I guess I didn't know the rules.
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Offline Mini D

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« Reply #106 on: June 20, 2005, 07:34:25 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by JB88
so...if cheney is vice president and he knows what is going to happen so he invests his money according to that...what does that mean?

legally that is.
That has nothing to do with this situation... does it? Chaney did not invest in halliburton after becoming VP.

I cannot believe how much irrelevant crap is being thrown up right now. Once again... get back to the very basics here: Does Chaney have any say on what contracts halliburton does or doesn't get? Research just a bit... take the time to figure out just how contracts are awarded... you'll figure that one out. Or you could just keep the head burried in the sand and assume contracts are awarded by the VP and he's turning everyone else away to make a buck.

Hehehe... even going to the "prove me wrong" line when you're completely incapable of providing a supporting argument for the accusations.

Offline lazs2

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« Reply #107 on: June 20, 2005, 08:44:29 AM »
I think he is saying that if you say it real fast....and without explaining it or looking into it... that it can be made to appear bad for Chenny and...

That's good enough for him.

One of those "good" soundbites.

lazs

Offline Maverick

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« Reply #108 on: June 20, 2005, 10:29:55 AM »
So far I haven't seen any "revalations" just an allegation with no supporting evidence. Smoke and mirrors. Create the impression of wrong doing with no basis for it and let the innuendo carry the situation to force the victim to defend alegations without substance. The mere defense is used as "proof" there MUST be something wrong or the victim wouldn't have to defend themself. Says quite a bit about the vapidity of the one raising the "issue" rather than the "issue" having any validity.
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Offline JB88

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« Reply #109 on: June 20, 2005, 12:50:42 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Holden McGroin
I'm sorry, I did not know that it was my burden to prove your allegations to be unfounded.  

I figured you had to come up with some basis for your theory.

I guess I didn't know the rules.


i have not put forth a theory.  i am only asking questions holden.
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Offline JB88

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« Reply #110 on: June 20, 2005, 12:52:09 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
I think he is saying that if you say it real fast....and without explaining it or looking into it... that it can be made to appear bad for Chenny and...

That's good enough for him.

One of those "good" soundbites.

lazs


and an exceptional dismissal to boot!  

wow.  we sure is teh smart.
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Offline lazs2

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« Reply #111 on: June 20, 2005, 02:26:03 PM »
never claimed to be smart..  It has been pointed out tho that without saying that chenney has no power to award contracts...

it is just a soundbite..  It is an anti chenney soundbite so... if it appeals to you then one could easily fall prey to thinking that you were repeating only the soundbite part out of a dishonest motive.

lazs

Offline JB88

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« Reply #112 on: June 20, 2005, 04:24:07 PM »
if that is true lasz, then you are correct, it is bad brahmen.

but it doesnt feel that way.  these are legitimate questions.  

like yourself, i feel that a little scrutiny and little cynicism is a healthy thing.

for you republicans out there, heres the thing.  ya'll went bonks over clinton.  yes there is some of that here too.  

but thats not what it is for me.

what it is to me is a part of a fundemental shift that points squarely at midevilism and a basic erosion of our constitutional guarantees.  not the details...but the spirit...the place where we hum from as a country.

you may say...that this is dramatic.  yes.  it is.  but it isnt more silly than saying that bill clinton was an honest politician or the poor arent getting poorer and the people are getting laid off and the corporation has wed itself too deeply in our government infrastructure.  or is it not deep enough?

one way or the other.  i think that the people are beginning to signal a strong belief that we are spinning our wheels in this country...becoming mired in an arguement and failing to utilize our brilliance and our willpower to do something about it.  to make it better.

the government is a servant of the people not a seperate entity.  an extension.

history shows us that we cant expect to see certain cycles in government.  knowing this, we can see signs and follow them.  that is not to say that it is an absolute.  certainly not.  but it is a danger.  as are many things.

i love this country and i have always trusted it and it has trusted me.  i am relying upon that country to keep that bond.  that trust.

both the dems and the reps are dishing it out right now like a friggin shakespearean play.  let em.

lets have a civil war.  

gee.  sounds fun.

lets have a sneaky puppet dictator.

gee golly.  cant wait for some of that.

let the ceo's get fatter while people get raped.

do you think that they are going to just stop?  

really?

not until we get back to decency and center.

pax americana.
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Offline Sandman

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« Reply #113 on: June 20, 2005, 04:51:59 PM »
C'mon JB, why worry about ethics when there's enough to worry about with what's legal or what can proven.
sand

Offline JB88

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« Reply #114 on: June 20, 2005, 04:55:30 PM »
good point sandman.

perhaps we should get back to our puddin.

whats that?  whats that you say corporate master?  'no meat. no pudding.?'
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Offline Maverick

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« Reply #115 on: June 20, 2005, 05:00:44 PM »
88,

In your next to last post I see some statements mostly unrelated to each other and non connected. By posting in effect nonsense you hope to accomplish what? I saw absolutley no concept being espoused nor an arguement.

In retrospect I think it just time to stop feeding your troll until you say something cogent.

edited here as another popped up while I was writing.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2005, 05:03:12 PM by Maverick »
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Offline JB88

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« Reply #116 on: June 20, 2005, 05:01:38 PM »
ive.
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Offline JB88

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« Reply #117 on: June 20, 2005, 05:03:28 PM »
teach me obie wan.  

show me that swank pappa talk you gots.

whatever man.

critics at a harem.
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Offline JB88

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ohhhhh...so thats how he did it...
« Reply #118 on: June 21, 2005, 06:30:29 PM »
Contract that spawned Guantanamo prisons awarded to Halliburton during Cheney's tenure as CEO

John Byrne

Experts say firm may have built secret camps

A contract awarded to a Halliburton subsidiary in June 2000 while Vice President Dick Cheney was still at the helm of the firm spawned the detention centers at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, RAW STORY has discovered.

The contract, which allocated funds for “emergency construction capabilities” at “worldwide locations,” authorized the Defense Department to award Halliburton subsidiary Kellogg, Brown & Root any number of specific naval construction deals abroad.

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Pegged at an “estimated maximum” of $75 million in 2000, the deal mushroomed to $136 million by 2004. Some $58 million was dedicated to detention centers at Guantanamo Bay alone, with another $30 million in a second contract.

Specific contracts for the Guantanamo facilities were not inked until February of 2002. Cheney served as chief executive of the company from 1995 until July 2000, leaving shortly thereafter to join the Bush campaign.

The original deal, signed under Clinton, was also used for typhoon damage and breakwater repair of military bases abroad. After the invasion of Afghanistan, the Administration drew upon the open-ended agreement to construct detention centers at the U.S. Guantanamo Bay naval base for suspected members of Al Qaeda.

In 2002, the Pentagon said that additional options might reach $300 million. Security experts believe the Bush Administration may have carved out funding from the original agreement to build other secret detention facilities sprinkled across the globe.

Other facilities?

The Pentagon has tacitly acknowledged the existence of clandestine detention facilities, but details are scarce. The press office did not return repeated requests for comment.

In 2004, Human Rights First, a renowned human rights legal group, suggested the likelihood of facilities at Diego Garcia, a British island in the Indian Ocean. Other suspected facilities include prisons in northwest Pakistan; a Central Intelligence Agency prison in Jordan; additional unacknowledged holding centers in Afghanistan and Iraq; and brigs on two U.S. naval ships, the U.S.S. Bataan and the U.S.S. Peleliu (Read the report).

Kellogg, Brown and Root was awarded another contract in 2004 when their original deal expired, capped at $500 million. Under this new agreement, another $30 million Guantanamo contract was awarded to the firm last week.

John Pike, director of defense watchdog and analysis group GlobalSecurity.org, said KBR is uniquely qualified for building other detention facilities, having been pre-qualified for emergency naval construction projects in 2000.

“KBR was pre-qualified to do that work,” he added. “If the Navy needed something built quickly, they could get them on the phone and just do it.”

“Somebody had to build them,” Pike told RAW STORY. “If it was Diego Garcia for instance, it was quite probable that it would have been built under that contract. I think Diego Garcia would be an excellent location for a detention facility.”

Pike said its location made it an ideal choice for another prison.

“It’s in the middle of the Indian Ocean,” he continued. “Nobody visits there.”

A KBR spokeswoman declined to comment.

Concerns about secret prisons

Priti Patel, a staff attorney for Human Rights First, the group that produced the report on suspected secret U.S. facilities, says the number of known detainees held has risen dramatically since their report last year.

“I know when we were looking at the numbers in March, in Iraq, and Afghanistan, the numbers were skyrocketing,” Patel said.

The group says the number of acknowledged foreign suspects held in U.S. detention totals about 11,000. Many are held in Iraq, Afghanistan and Guantanamo Bay, but the location of some “high-value” suspects, like alleged Qaeda leader Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, has never been disclosed.

“The United States government is holding prisoners in a secret system of off-shore prisons beyond the reach of adequate supervision, accountability, or law,” the Human Rights First Director of U.S. Law and Security program Deborah Pearlstein told reporters last year.

Pike suspects that the Pentagon has quietly paid defense firms to build clandestine detention facilities abroad. He cited the CIA as an example, saying many items in the CIA budget are secretly siphoned off from other Defense Department allocations.

“It’s called a carve-out contract, and it’s an unacknowledged contract inside an overtly acknowledged contract,” he said. “They might say that it was for one thing and it was for something else.”

The awarding of Defense Department contracts—like those for hidden detention centers—can be disguised legally.

“They’re not under oath,” Pike explained. “They’re not sworn to tell the whole truth and nothing but the truth when they put out these contract announcements. The CIA hires people to do all kinds of things and they don’t announce any of their contracts.”

GlobalSecurity.org uses satellite imagery to track military installations. Pike spent nearly two decades at the Federation of American Scientists, studying the use of satellite imagery to monitor weapons worldwide.

During the Cold War, the U.S. used a system calling FROS (functionally related observable differences) for arms control inspections. Differences between one building and another could give clues to their purpose. But because secret facilities likely hold several dozen detainees instead of thousands, they are easily masked among existing military installations.

“Lorton is obviously a detention facility,” Pike said, speaking of the former District of Columbia jail that held as many as seven thousand inmates in its heyday. “But the D.C. [city] jail downtown, you can’t pick it out.”

Other Halliburton contracts questioned

Halliburton, a punching bag in the 2004 presidential campaign, has taken flak for other contracts relating to the “war on terror.” It was awarded a $7 billion no-bid contract to rebuild Iraqi oil fields, and has been criticized for a fuel transportation contract which critics say was grossly inflated.

The firm purchased gasoline in Kuwait for $2.20 per gallon while other contractors were paying $1.18 in Turkey. Pentagon auditors have questioned $212 million that the firm billed the U.S. to deliver fuel to Iraq; documents released in November also reveal the U.S. ambassador to Kuwait intervened to ensure Halliburton got the fuel transport deal.

Pentagon auditors have also suggested KBR overcharged the Army by as much as 40 percent for dining facilities.

Formerly Brown & Root, the firm has a long and checkered history in military contracting. It was among a consortium of firms charged with building hospitals in Vietnam during the U.S. engagement there, and was accused of pilfering millions from Pentagon coffers.

In 1967, the General Accounting Office faulted the firm for massive accounting lapses and for allowing thefts of materials. The company earned a nickname--Burn & Loot—and drew anti-war protesters who bemoaned the contracts as the embodiment of what President Dwight Eisenhower had called the military-industrial complex.

KBR received $5.5 billion in Iraq contracts for fiscal year 2004, and has billed the U.S. $10.5 billion so far to provide logistical support for the military in Iraq, Afghanistan and elsewhere in the Middle East.

The Army awarded the firm a $72 million bonus in May for work in Iraq. They gave the firm the top ratings of "excellent" and "very good."

Halliburton said earlier this year it will seek to spin off KBR in a sale, spinoff or public offering.
#

KBR's Guantanamo Bay contracts include the following:

408 unit detention camp: $16 million (Feb. 2002) Radio Range Phase II: $7 million (April 2002) Radio Range Phase III: $9.7 million (July 2002) Radio Range construction: $12.5 million (June 2003) Radio Range (various): $12.9 million (June 2003) Detention camp #6 and various: $30mill (June 2005)
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Offline Mini D

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« Reply #119 on: June 21, 2005, 07:42:05 PM »
Is that cut and paste addiction supposed to actually mean anything relevant? Are you implying that while the CEO of Haliburton, Chaney should not have been persuing contracts?