Author Topic: mmmmriiiiiight.  (Read 2372 times)

Offline Toad

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« Reply #30 on: June 17, 2005, 10:24:23 AM »
Our things or their things? Enquiring minds want to know!
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline TheDudeDVant

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« Reply #31 on: June 17, 2005, 10:27:16 AM »
Thanks for the read 88!  8)

Offline Maverick

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« Reply #32 on: June 17, 2005, 10:29:55 AM »
Toad,  Lets not let details get in the way here. It's just things ok. Ownership can be a fleeting thing so lets not let the technicalities get in the freaking way! :mad:  The last thing you want to do when breaking things is to have to get the thing manual out to decide if it's their thing or our thing. It slows the flow of the operation. Why do you think one of the best mottos for the Military is Lead, Follow or Get the Hell OUT OF THE WAY!  


Drive on........
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Offline Captain Virgil Hilts

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« Reply #33 on: June 17, 2005, 11:42:22 AM »
Every time someone brings up Haliburton getting a contract, I ask the SAME QUESTION, and get no answer.

Question:

If Haliburton was getting NO BID contracts awarded during the Clinton administration, why is it such a big deal when they get ANY contract now?

Why is it a surprise that Haliburton and subsidiaries get military contracts when they are the company the military and DoD has preferred for decades?

What is the big deal? The company that got more contracts for military work than any other during the 3 previous administrations continues to get the majority of the contracts now, during this administration.
"I haven't seen Berlin yet, from the ground or the air, and I plan on doing both, BEFORE the war is over."

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Offline Aubrey

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« Reply #34 on: June 17, 2005, 11:51:31 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Toad
Our things or their things? Enquiring minds want to know!


HEh I never made any distiction esp when it came to humvees.

When they first came out I really really really tried to get one stuck in the mud or anything I could find.  I couldn't do it.

When it came to getting gear I scrounged. (ok I thieved for my unit.)  What can I say I "found" alot of useful gear for our unit just laying around "abandond".

Offline Sandman

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« Reply #35 on: June 17, 2005, 11:52:39 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts

If Haliburton was getting NO BID contracts awarded during the Clinton administration, why is it such a big deal when they get ANY contract now?
 


Cheney is the vice president and former CEO of Haliburton. Not sure of the amount, but estimates of his stock in Haliburtion exceeds $60 Million.

Keep in mind... This Haliburton no-bid nonsense started when he was SECDEF.

Is he doing anything illegal? Hard to say, but it smells funny.
sand

Offline rpm

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« Reply #36 on: June 17, 2005, 12:00:31 PM »
Isn't Gitmo a Navy base? Why aren't the Seabee's doing it? They are not just "supervisors" as the Army Corps of Engineers are.

Wait, then Halliburton couldn't overcharge the taxpayers again. We couldn't have that happen with this administration.
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Offline Captain Virgil Hilts

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« Reply #37 on: June 17, 2005, 12:07:15 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Raider179
I thought this was exactly the kind of construction the Army Corp of Engineers or some other military construction group would do. Why the hell are we giving contracts out for stuff that can be done in-house?


From what I've seen, over the years, the Corps of Engineers designs and supervises most large contracts, and only handles actual building in war zones or other hostile areas. Anything major, in a non hostile area, will be handled by civilian contractors, with the Corps of Engineers handling design and oversight.

That being the case, and the project in question being outside the U.S., Haliburton being a preferred military contractor for decades is the most likely choice to handle the job. It is a company the military and the DoD has known and deealt with for decades. They are familiar, and the DoD considers them to be reliable and agreeable.

Military construction contracts and projects are unlike civilian jobs. Having worked on projects for the DoD and the DoVA, I can tell you the system works very differently. And the GOVERNMENT drives much of the cost up by THEIR specifications. Even the most menial of tasks are done by people who are either 5 positions above the level required for the task, or at least paid the labor scale equivalent to that level.

For example, we could not use an electrician's helper, paid $.25 an hour in 1982 on DoVA jobs. We had to use a journeyman electrician, and pay him at least $11.65 an hour. An electrician who would normally earn $14 - $18 an hour made a minimum of $24 an hour. So that getting assigned to a DoVA job was a treat reserved for the best, most reliable, company favorites. I drew DoVA jobs ANY time they came up. And we got preferential treatment when we bid because we were a known contractor they preferred to use.
"I haven't seen Berlin yet, from the ground or the air, and I plan on doing both, BEFORE the war is over."

SaVaGe


Offline Captain Virgil Hilts

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« Reply #38 on: June 17, 2005, 12:14:46 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Sandman
Cheney is the vice president and former CEO of Haliburton. Not sure of the amount, but estimates of his stock in Haliburtion exceeds $60 Million.

Keep in mind... This Haliburton no-bid nonsense started when he was SECDEF.

Is he doing anything illegal? Hard to say, but it smells funny.


Again, after looking around to see what everyone was complaining about, and after talking to dozens of friends who have been in the military for decades, nothing is different now that Cheney is Vice President than it was when any other adminisatration was in office.

Cheney didn't invent the no bid government contract (not EXACTLY what you're saying, but more to the point, EXACTLY what people a implying or saying), that is utter nonsense. It does not apply to Haliburton any more than it does anyone else that I've heard of, again after asking people who have been there for decades.

I'm STILL asking, what is the difference between Haliburton getting those contracts NOW and say TWELVE years ago? They got them when Cheney was neither SecDef nor VP, so where is the big scandal?
"I haven't seen Berlin yet, from the ground or the air, and I plan on doing both, BEFORE the war is over."

SaVaGe


Offline rpm

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« Reply #39 on: June 17, 2005, 12:25:18 PM »
Quote
I'm STILL asking, what is the difference between Haliburton getting those contracts NOW and say TWELVE years ago?
The conflict of interest did'nt exist when he was not in office.
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Offline Captain Virgil Hilts

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« Reply #40 on: June 17, 2005, 12:43:35 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by rpm
The conflict of interest did'nt exist when he was not in office.


So your position is that the Dod and the military should have to abandon using their preferred contractor because of some sort of perceived conflict, despite the fact that nothing has changed between them.:rolleyes:

Or the current administration is wrong for using the same contractor under the same rules as the previous three administrations.:rolleyes:


Or this is just another attempted witch hunt.:aok
"I haven't seen Berlin yet, from the ground or the air, and I plan on doing both, BEFORE the war is over."

SaVaGe


Offline BlueJ1

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« Reply #41 on: June 17, 2005, 12:47:58 PM »
Have the military build it for a heck of a alot cheaper.
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Offline rpm

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« Reply #42 on: June 17, 2005, 12:54:41 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
So your position is that the Dod and the military should have to abandon using their preferred contractor because of some sort of perceived conflict, despite the fact that nothing has changed between them.:rolleyes:

Or the current administration is wrong for using the same contractor under the same rules as the previous three administrations.:rolleyes:


Or this is just another attempted witch hunt.:aok
Do you not understand what a conflict of interest is?

Let's say a guy gets a job in charge of Billions of dollars of public funds and needs to construct a new public building. There are 2 companies that built them in the past. One just happens to be owned in part by him and has a long history of overbilling. It would be unethical for that company to do the job because of the percieved conflict of interest. Not to mention, they have a history of padding the bill.
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Stay thirsty my friends.

Offline Mini D

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« Reply #43 on: June 17, 2005, 01:05:51 PM »
Actually, I think it is you that is a bit confused as to what a "conflict of interest" is.

If the vice president were in a position to decide which contractor was used, there would be a conflict of interest. If the VP used his influence to pressure people into making a decision, it would be a conflict of interest. Simply using a company that he holds stock in is not a conflict of interest if he held the stock before joining office.

The huge assumption is that somehow, Chaney is paving the way for haliburton to win these contracts. This is despite the fact that they were winning them with the last 3 administrations. This is the premise of every article and every post on this subject.

The "conflict of interest" postition is actually the least tenable of all of them.

Offline WMLute

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« Reply #44 on: June 17, 2005, 01:12:53 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Mini D
Actually, I think it is you that is a bit confused as to what a "conflict of interest" is.

If the vice president were in a position to decide which contractor was used, there would be a conflict of interest. If the VP used his influence to pressure people into making a decision, it would be a conflict of interest. Simply using a company that he holds stock in is not a conflict of interest if he held the stock before joining office.

The huge assumption is that somehow, Chaney is paving the way for haliburton to win these contracts. This is despite the fact that they were winning them with the last 3 administrations. This is the premise of every article and every post on this subject.

The "conflict of interest" postition is actually the least tenable of all of them.


yup.

you spot on.
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