Author Topic: Suggested, complete Spitfire lineup for Aces High (Read 5874 times)

Karnak · « **Reply #30 on:** June 20, 2005, 01:20:24 AM »

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Originally posted by lasersailor184
Tell me how fast that Spit 9 and Spit 16 go in comparison to the Spit 9 we have now.

The others have gone over the LF.Mk XVI already. The Spitfire F.Mk IX is the exactly same fighter as the Spitfire Mk IX we have in AH performancewise. The AH one just has some armement options it shouldn't.

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Originally posted by Kev367th
LF XVI/LF IX with proposed 25lbs boost-

Sea level - 358
500 - 360
1000 - 363
1500 - 366
2000 - 368
2500 - 371
3000 - 373
3500 - 376
4000 - 379

Actually makes it faster than a Tiffy by approx 8mph all listed alts
Only have data up to 4k.

The Tiffie in AH does 375 or so on the deck, and last I checked that was faster than 358.

Angus · « **Reply #31 on:** June 20, 2005, 10:28:01 AM »

Or as Quill put it, after beating the Tiffie (and Faber's 190) in a race, flying a Spitfire:
"The cat was well and still among the pigeons"

Some speed figures from Merlin 66 or 70 models with +25 boost are quite fine. The overboost, although officially limited to some certain minutes, was frequently abused by pilots in states of emergency. There are records of engines running up to 30 mins over the gate without damage.
But the climbing is another factor.
Some Mk IX's were from takeoff to 20K in some or less than 5 minutes, - which is actually a better performance than the AH XIV has. The MK VIII falls into that category as well, while hauling a lot more fuel. The figures I found also go for a Merlin 70, which is a good high alt engine if I remember it correctly.
I have a graph of some Spitfire IX and VIII speeds (as well as a 109G on 1.42 ata). Crumpp hosted it for me the other day. Will try to dig it up and post.

Guppy35 · « **Reply #32 on:** June 20, 2005, 10:49:38 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by Angus
Or as Quill put it, after beating the Tiffie (and Faber's 190) in a race, flying a Spitfire:
"The cat was well and still among the pigeons"

Some speed figures from Merlin 66 or 70 models with +25 boost are quite fine. The overboost, although officially limited to some certain minutes, was frequently abused by pilots in states of emergency. There are records of engines running up to 30 mins over the gate without damage.
But the climbing is another factor.
Some Mk IX's were from takeoff to 20K in some or less than 5 minutes, - which is actually a better performance than the AH XIV has. The MK VIII falls into that category as well, while hauling a lot more fuel. The figures I found also go for a Merlin 70, which is a good high alt engine if I remember it correctly.
I have a graph of some Spitfire IX and VIII speeds (as well as a 109G on 1.42 ata). Crumpp hosted it for me the other day. Will try to dig it up and post.

Just remember that was Jeff Quill in DP845 the prototype Spit XII

Dan/CorkyJr

Angus · « **Reply #33 on:** June 20, 2005, 11:28:40 AM »

Hehe, Guppy. I know. I pretty much figured you would spot this one as well and point it out

But honestly, those Merlin 66's and 70's with +25 had some very nice performance. I do not have data on the clipped ones and cropped ones, but I imagine that the top speeds would be more, especially down low, and the roll rate very comfortable. Climb would suffer, but hey, - the climb is 4000 fpm from the deck to 20K on average anyway, so there is something to play with.
Top speed at preferred alt goes as high as 415 mph I belive, so after clipping, well.....?
Did they clip the VIII? I recall there being a discussion about extended wings, but am not so sure of it anyway.

Guppy35 · « **Reply #34 on:** June 20, 2005, 12:44:18 PM »

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Originally posted by Angus
Hehe, Guppy. I know. I pretty much figured you would spot this one as well and point it out
But honestly, those Merlin 66's and 70's with +25 had some very nice performance. I do not have data on the clipped ones and cropped ones, but I imagine that the top speeds would be more, especially down low, and the roll rate very comfortable. Climb would suffer, but hey, - the climb is 4000 fpm from the deck to 20K on average anyway, so there is something to play with.
Top speed at preferred alt goes as high as 415 mph I belive, so after clipping, well.....?
Did they clip the VIII? I recall there being a discussion about extended wings, but am not so sure of it anyway.

VIIIs weren't clipped in production but you can find photos of clipped VIIIs that were done locally in the MTO. I posted a couple of photos of them in the clipped Spit thread.

including one of them below. Note the short span ailerons of the VIII and the retractable tail wheel.

Quill talked about fighting not to have the extended wings on the VIII as a number were produced that way. Photos of 417 Squadron Spit VIIIs with those extended tips show up often. He though the normal span Merlin 66, Spit LFVIII was the ultimate Merlin Spit.

Dan/CorkyJr

Kweassa · « **Reply #35 on:** June 20, 2005, 12:47:07 PM »

I think they're all excellent choices, Karnak.

Angus · « **Reply #36 on:** June 20, 2005, 01:02:53 PM »

Guppy, yer awesome.
Nice pic.
Pilot and sqn?

Crumpp · « **Reply #37 on:** June 20, 2005, 02:20:38 PM »

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Did 190A-3/F-3 see service in east front too? I believe A-3/F-3s were introduced in the west 1st and the East campaign saw its first 190 in a A-4/A-5 form

The FW-190A3 did not see service in the east in any quantity.

A few FW-190A3 remained in the Geschwaders for extended periods of time:

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Fw 190A-3, White 9. This might be the machine named "Netty" which was later photographed at Herdla in 1945 (se Figure 10). Like the preceding photograph, female companionship is the order of the day, something that suggests that the both pictures were taken on the same day and place. That would indicate that White 9 and White 10 in the background, possibly another A-3, are two machines from 13. Staffel with what appears to be a Bf 109T from 11./JG 11 in between. The location is Lister in South Norway. Note what appears to be temporary white distemper on White 9 and the old style upper wing cross (what appears to be white snow camouflage is exaggerated light colour due to lack of quality on our original. For a better version see Marshall 2002: 311).

http://www.white1foundation.org/white1_history4.htm

This can hardly be considered typical however. You can find FW-190A3's operating well into 1943 in many Geschwaders, though.

JG5 "Eismeer" lost it's last FW-190A2 in late 1945. See Figure 14 on the page linked above.

The FW-190F3 was developed from the FW-190A5/U17 and primarily served on the Eastern Front.
As a general breakdown, Channel Geschwaders had priority for the FW-190A fighter varients while the Eastern Front had priority for the Ground Attack variants.

All the best,

Crumpp

Kweassa · « **Reply #38 on:** June 21, 2005, 08:52:47 AM »

So if you had one Fw190 model to choose, what would you suggest for a pre-'43, Channel Front Fw190, Crumpp?

A-2? A-3?

Seeker · « **Reply #39 on:** June 21, 2005, 09:03:56 AM »

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Originally posted by Kweassa
So if you had one Fw190 model to choose, what would you suggest for a pre-'43, Channel Front Fw190, Crumpp?

A-2? A-3?

I'd have thought a very nice match up would be the appropriate Tiffy's and FW for Dieppe; which was; as far as I know; the first time either were used in anger.

MiloMorai · « **Reply #40 on:** June 21, 2005, 09:29:36 AM »

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Originally posted by Seeker
I'd have thought a very nice match up would be the appropriate Tiffy's and FW for Dieppe; which was; as far as I know; the first time either were used in anger.

Two Typhoons (P/Os Lucas and Munro) from 266 shot down a Ju88 50km off Cromer on Aug 9 1942 though they had been operational from early June. They had been hunting jabos with no success.

Flyboy · « **Reply #41 on:** June 21, 2005, 09:35:32 AM »

spit5 is a monster right now. i wish they tune it down a bit for more historical ballance, i dont care about the MA much.

a 109f vrs spit5 used to be a great fight, now its really one sided

Angus · « **Reply #42 on:** June 21, 2005, 09:50:01 AM »

The 109F is faster. Play it clever and you'll be able to outrun the Spit. It is also the ultimate 109F.
Anyway, I agree. an older Spit V and a better IX or VIII.

Crumpp · « **Reply #43 on:** June 21, 2005, 10:04:30 AM »

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So if you had one Fw190 model to choose, what would you suggest for a pre-'43, Channel Front Fw190, Crumpp?

Both types were present at Dieppe.

http://fw190.hobbyvista.com/dieppe.htm

Both types served well into the mid war period and both types recieved BMW801D2 motors. They were produced concurrently. Too further complicate things BMW801C motors were replaced during servicing with BMW801D2 power eggs if needed by the Geschwader maintenance personnel.

Production was very much dependant upon BMW powerplant availability.

http://fw190.hobbyvista.com/a-2.htm

http://fw190.hobbyvista.com/a-3.htm

My suggestion would be the BMW801D2 powered FW-190A3. It was present in all but the earliest portions of the Focke Wulf timeline and extend well into the midwar period.

All the best,

Crumpp

Karnak · « **Reply #44 on:** June 21, 2005, 10:17:13 AM »

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Originally posted by Flyboy
spit5 is a monster right now. i wish they tune it down a bit for more historical ballance, i dont care about the MA much

Toning down the Spit V is included in the list in the OP. That is what I meant about reducing the boost to +12lbs. Currently it is +16lbs and that is why the AH2 Spit V is so different than the AH1 Spit V.