Author Topic: Suggested, complete Spitfire lineup for Aces High  (Read 5875 times)

Offline Guppy35

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Suggested, complete Spitfire lineup for Aces High
« Reply #45 on: June 21, 2005, 11:06:48 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Angus
Guppy, yer awesome.
Nice pic.
Pilot and sqn?


Air Vice Marshal W.F. Dickson's personal aircraft.  

In the old Otaki 1/48th scale Mk VIII model kit they had those markings included.

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Offline thrila

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« Reply #46 on: June 21, 2005, 12:10:57 PM »
Doesn't the 109f also have an uprated engine?
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Offline Kweassa

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« Reply #47 on: June 21, 2005, 12:18:57 PM »
It runs on 1.42 ata I beleive, thrila, and that's not represantative of '41 109Fs either.

 Gotta ask the other experts about this though.

Offline 1K3

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« Reply #48 on: June 21, 2005, 12:24:08 PM »
our 109F-4 is 1942

our spitfire V with + 16 is 1942

nothing's wrong with that picture... the year is moved by just 1 year.

Offline Flyboy

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« Reply #49 on: June 21, 2005, 01:19:05 PM »
current spit5 outclass our current 109f in eevrything but top speed.

Offline Kweassa

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« Reply #50 on: June 21, 2005, 02:00:20 PM »
Er.. Flyboy, maybe the Spit5 was that much better than the F-4... I don't see anything wrong about that...

Offline Crumpp

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« Reply #51 on: June 21, 2005, 05:42:25 PM »
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Er.. Flyboy, maybe the Spit5 was that much better than the F-4... I don't see anything wrong about that...




Not to start a comparison thread but I really think things come down to time period we are discussing, manufacturing tolerances, and "fit and finish" of the aircraft.

Comparisons such as:

http://www.spitfireperformance.com/109f_spitvb.jpg

Really show nothing as we do not know the set up or condition for each aircraft.  At the moment in time, the Spitfire was superior.  However the Bf-109F1 or 2 (it is surprising the RAE does not know which variant they are testing) was a very short-lived variant and was soon followed by the Bf-109F4 with a different engine.

Bf-109F1 and Bf-109F2:



Bf-109F4:



The Bf-109's could gain as much 25mph from a filled and polish job.  

When you understand the significance of CLmax to turn performance and the function of aerodynamic devices like the Handley Page slats of the Bf-109:






And you read RAE test flight reports with comments like the 109 being "embarrassed" by it's slats opening or best turn performance was achieved just before the slats open it makes you wonder at the validity of the test because of the pilots experience in the type.  It's a foreign aircraft in which he has no experience in the particulars of the design.  

Without a doubt the Spitfire outturned the Bf-109.  Just as certain it was not by much.  As the RAE concluded, these planes were very evenly matched.

Only for a "game" does a few mph or few hundred feet per minute make difference for any plane.  As a game, the point is having fun.  Facts are the air war was a "tit for tat" war of technological one-upmanship.  It teeters back and forth with each side trading advantages.  The most fun times to play a game are when things were relatively equal with opposing strengths giving each side a chance to fight and win.

That is the beauty of a WWII era sim.

All the best,

Crumpp
« Last Edit: June 21, 2005, 05:44:56 PM by Crumpp »

Offline Kurfürst

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« Reply #52 on: June 25, 2005, 05:23:55 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Crumpp


Comparisons such as:

http://www.spitfireperformance.com/109f_spitvb.jpg

Really show nothing as we do not know the set up or condition for each aircraft.  At the moment in time, the Spitfire was superior.  However the Bf-109F1 or 2 (it is surprising the RAE does not know which variant they are testing) was a very short-lived variant and was soon followed by the Bf-109F4 with a different engine.


Indeed. The Bf 109F-2 they tested briefly (it soon crashed) was one captured and restored after belly landing, but the report says it had engine problems, plus what damage the airframe took when it landed. I think the report is available on Ring`s site.

The Spit V curve is for the prototype SpitV which was not operationally loaded. Which is why William`s is showing it. Prototypes vs. worst performing captured machine, as usual. Relevant information is held back.

The 109F-1/2 was not really much faster than the MkVs, perhaps 10-20 kph speed difference, altough at low altitudes it could more.

But if AH2 really has the F-4 with 1.42ata, it should do 670 kph at 6200m.. That`s a lot, even a MkIX would struggle. I wonder if it`s so, as in the case any smart 109F-4 pilot would simply outrun the opposing MkV just like FW 190s did in combat.

I`d except the MkV to outturn it, or it had really low stall speed and low weight, but speed, and probably climb, is definietely in the 109s favour. The pilot should use them, if they exist in the game.
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Offline MiloMorai

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« Reply #53 on: June 25, 2005, 05:58:15 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Crumpp
Really show nothing as we do not know the set up or condition for each aircraft.  At the moment in time, the Spitfire was superior.  However the Bf-109F1 or 2 (it is surprising the RAE does not know which variant they are testing) was a very short-lived variant and was soon followed by the Bf-109F4 with a different engine.


Considering that the only difference between the 2, was the engine mounted cannon, it does not matter which variant is being tested as both would have simular stats.

Offline Kurfürst

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« Reply #54 on: June 25, 2005, 06:54:21 AM »
F-1/F-2 had the 1175 HP DB 601N.
F-4 had the 1350 PS DB 601E.
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Offline MiloMorai

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« Reply #55 on: June 25, 2005, 07:12:43 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Kurfürst
F-1/F-2 had the 1175 HP DB 601N.
F-4 had the 1350 PS DB 601E.


The comment was in reply to Crumpp's comment on the F-1, F-2, nothing to do with the F-4.:rolleyes:

Output of the 601E was initially restricted to 1200hp @ 2500rpm, which you nicely failed to mention.

Offline Kurfürst

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« Reply #56 on: June 25, 2005, 07:44:55 AM »
Find another thread to flame.
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Offline Karnak

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« Reply #57 on: June 25, 2005, 01:49:05 PM »
Erm, I kinda meant this thread to be about what would be an appropriately complete representative line up of Spitfires and Seafires for AH while keeping the total number of versions to a minimum.

It really doesn't have anything to do with how well this fighter or that fighter matches up to them.  They'll either be better or worse than the opposition at a given timeframe, and that is that.

There are many other threads in which to compare the Fw190 to the Bf109 to the Spitfire.  Heck, I didn't even mean for this thread to get into Spitfire vs Spitfire capability discussions as capability has little to do with what would actually be representative.

Now, if any of you have suggested alterations to my suggested lineup I'd be interested in hearing them and the reasons for the suggested changes.

Thanks.
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Offline Kev367th

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« Reply #58 on: June 25, 2005, 02:30:51 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Karnak
Erm, I kinda meant this thread to be about what would be an appropriately complete representative line up of Spitfires and Seafires for AH while keeping the total number of versions to a minimum.

It really doesn't have anything to do with how well this fighter or that fighter matches up to them.  They'll either be better or worse than the opposition at a given timeframe, and that is that.

There are many other threads in which to compare the Fw190 to the Bf109 to the Spitfire.  Heck, I didn't even mean for this thread to get into Spitfire vs Spitfire capability discussions as capability has little to do with what would actually be representative.

Now, if any of you have suggested alterations to my suggested lineup I'd be interested in hearing them and the reasons for the suggested changes.

Thanks.


Well said Karnak,
Think the

Ia - Merlin II 12lbs boost
LF Vb - Merlin 45M
F IX - Merlin 61
LF VIII- Merlin 66
F VIX - Griffon 65 21lbs boost
LF XVI - Merlin 266 25lbs boost

Seafire L III - Merlin 55M

Has to be the most representative.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2005, 02:34:21 PM by Kev367th »
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Offline 1K3

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« Reply #59 on: June 25, 2005, 07:13:41 PM »
Quote
Well said Karnak,
Think the

Ia - Merlin II 12lbs boost
LF Vb - Merlin 45M
F IX - Merlin 61
LF VIII- Merlin 66
F VIX - Griffon 65 21lbs boost
LF XVI - Merlin 266 25lbs boost

Seafire L III - Merlin 55M

Has to be the most representative.


On spitfire Ia with +12 boost,

When was +12 lbs boost cleared fo use? Did the climbrate improve or even exceed 109E with +12 boost?

(btw im sure the +12 Mk Ia SPEED are higher at low to high alts over that of 109E)