Author Topic: Eurofighter vs. F15 (Read 1704 times)

Makarov9 · « **Reply #30 on:** June 20, 2005, 09:56:38 AM »

"Can't we all just...get along"

Gunslinger · « **Reply #31 on:** June 20, 2005, 10:07:41 AM »

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Originally posted by lada
Is F22 in operational structure of army or only on to do list ?

yes they have fully operational squadrons recieving new jets all the time.

Dinger · « **Reply #32 on:** June 20, 2005, 12:11:31 PM »

I remember back over on AGW some years back, a guy who was a backseater in an F4 stationed in the Med in the early 70s once described pulling an intercept on a RAF Vulcan at somethilng like 40k. The Vulcan beat them.

Elfie · « **Reply #33 on:** June 20, 2005, 12:35:38 PM »

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Its just like the Euros to put up an OLD attack ac against their newest and best ac. I guess they are trying to market the ac and that is the best they can do.

The F-15's jumped the Eurofighter Typhoon, not the other way around.

Doesnt surprise me that the Eurofighter with its forward canards was able to beat a pair of F-15's. Never mind that the F-15's were E models, the F-15 in all its variants is still a superb dogfighter. The basic design is now 30+ years old. Thats why we are building the Raptor and the JSF

Elfie · « **Reply #34 on:** June 20, 2005, 12:39:41 PM »

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Originally posted by SuperDud
Yeah, nothing shocking to me about the euro taking out the 2 f-15's. It's a state of the art fighter, fighting older aircraft. Not taking anything away from it, it is a nice bird. But any modern aircraft outta be able to do so. I saw on a program recently on the history channel where an f-22 engaged 3 or 5(can't remember which one) f-15's and smote them. I think it would be interesting for the f-22 and euro to go at it, I bet it would be good.

I think it was 5 Superdud, and didnt the Raptor pilot say it was like clubbing baby seals during the debrief?

Elfie · « **Reply #35 on:** June 20, 2005, 12:41:53 PM »

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'Limey' is not in quotes. That just bugs me.

Just curious, why does it bug you? It doesnt bug me one bit when people from other countries call Americans Yanks.

SuperDud · « **Reply #36 on:** June 20, 2005, 12:58:41 PM »

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Originally posted by Elfie
I think it was 5 Superdud, and didnt the Raptor pilot say it was like clubbing baby seals during the debrief?

LoL, yeah those were his exact words. I think that's why I remember it so well:lol I think he had downed them all before they knew he was there, well beyond vis range. Neat stuff!

Raider179 · « **Reply #37 on:** June 20, 2005, 01:11:22 PM »

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Originally posted by Deertick
The euroturd fighter will never even see the F22 coming... That is one key difference. Dog fighting is a thing of the past and a plane designed to do so is a waste of money... They will be blown from the sky before they even say tally ho!
Its just like the Euros to put up an OLD attack ac against their newest and best ac. I guess they are trying to market the ac and that is the best they can do.

Yep. You can be the best damn pilot in the world but if you can't even see your enemy before he shoots missiles at you, its pretty much over from the start.

F-22 will win hands down against the Eurofighter for that reason right there.

Raider179 · « **Reply #38 on:** June 20, 2005, 01:14:04 PM »

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Originally posted by DiabloTX
They've been saying that for the last 60 years. Only thing that has changed is the techniques used to down the other plane. If they thought dogfighting was over we wouldn't have Top Gun type schools.

When was the last Guns kill in a US fighter?

1K3 · « **Reply #39 on:** June 20, 2005, 01:24:13 PM »

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Originally posted by Raider179
When was the last Guns kill in a US fighter?

VIetnam era i believe (somewhere in the '70-75 MiGs 17/21 vs F-4 Phantoms)

or

The Israelis vs Egyptians / Syria in the 70s, 80s

Raider179 · « **Reply #40 on:** June 20, 2005, 01:26:39 PM »

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Originally posted by 1K3
VIetnam era i believe (somewhere in the '70-75 MiGs 17/21 vs F-4 Phantoms)

Yeah I figured it was something like that. So the f-15 and f-14 neither have any A-A gun kills right? Makes sense to me. If you get close enough for guns these days your lucky your not a smoking hole.

1K3 · « **Reply #41 on:** June 20, 2005, 01:31:36 PM »

Did the F-15Es have Joint Helmet-Mounted Cueing System (JHMCS) in that fight? I believe the fight would been somewhat balanced.

eagl · « **Reply #42 on:** June 20, 2005, 01:38:27 PM »

Raider,

I dunno when the last guns kill was but it came close a few times in desert storm when the initial batch of aim-7s had an 80%+ failure rate at launch. The last 2 USAF kills were in or rapidly approaching the visual arena due to missile failure and the rules of engagement may not always allow for BVR shots, resulting in a knife-fight. The Israelis may have a few modern jet guns kills but I'm not sure. I know for a fact that there were guns-only engagements in relatively recent South American conflicts.

Remember, it was only 3 years ago when F-15 pilots swore up and down that they would NEVER take their 55 million dollar fighter low enough to strafe, yet it's become an important option that all of our fighters bring to the table on the modern battlefield. We've had guys strafing within about 50 yards of troops in contact, and you can't do that with anything but a gun. You can't get that kind of accuracy with a podded gun, even if you have a suitable weapons station on which to hang it. It's gotten to the point that we made a serious effort to determine if we could teach F-15C pilots how to strafe. It didn't go too well for various reasons but it was important enough that we gave it a shot.

I don't know a single fighter jock who would honestly recommend getting rid of the internal gun, unless he/she has an agenda to push. There will likely be a tradeoff made with the JSF in certain variants due to airframe space limitations, but I know for a FACT that the service due to receive those fighters will regret that design deficiency. Every single time we've removed the internal gun from a US designed fighter, we've wished we had it back later on. Every single time.

TracerX · « **Reply #43 on:** June 20, 2005, 01:38:43 PM »

The US employs a complete air defense system. It does not rely on a single aircraft to perform all of the functions of air defense. Most engagements are designed to be won very early at extreme ranges. This is where the US excells is at identifying and eliminating threats extremely early, so you need a fast stealthy missle hauling truck to deliver kills at extreme ranges. The F-22 is designed to do this better than anything else in the sky. I believe it has some additional maneouvering enhancements to help it if it gets to within close range of an enemy, but it is not designed to get in close on a regular basis and neither is the F15.

The JSF is designed to do everything, with an emphasis on maneouverability and survivability. It cannot perform many of the functions the F-22 can or the F-15. In a normal world, the F-15 and the F-22 would have killed the JSF long before the dogfight developed. Having forgone the early engagement, it seems this was an experiment to see how they would perform in close quarters, an area the JSF excells in, and an area these F-15's (specificly this model) are not ideally suited. It is kinda like turn fighting a Spit V with two P47's, in my book this is a toss up, especially if the Spit V pilot is very good.

Yeager · « **Reply #44 on:** June 20, 2005, 01:46:08 PM »

Sounds like a couple of F15 jocks were unprepared for an aggressive and highly competant trainer in the Euro and were soundly spanked (I would suspect same trainer attended Red Flag since most RAF pilots get over that way).

I would rather look at the stats and compare the two aircraft on performance values for a better overall feel of which is the superior platform.

Without knowing the actual performance stats I would expect the Euro to be highly competative to the Eagle and I would also imagine with confidence that fighting capabilities of the Eagle played a signifcant role in shaping the Euros design.