Author Topic: Supreme Court Rules Cities Can Seize Your Home For Walmart  (Read 3628 times)

Offline oboe

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 9805
Supreme Court Rules Cities Can Seize Your Home For Walmart
« Reply #90 on: June 24, 2005, 03:13:13 PM »
Sorry my 5 minutes was up so I couldn't edit my first reply.

I think I disagree with you Seagoon on whether the framers of the Constitution believed in fixed and unchanging standards.   If they did, why would they have included Article V , instructions describing how to amend the Constitution?

Offline Chairboy

  • Probation
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8221
      • hallert.net
Supreme Court Rules Cities Can Seize Your Home For Walmart
« Reply #91 on: June 24, 2005, 03:20:38 PM »
I think the point Seagoon is making (please correct me if I'm wrong) is that for the system to work, there has to be a certain amount of friction to keep things together.  If the process of altering the constitution was as easy as filling out a suggestion form and dropping it in a box, then the document that defines the structure of our society would be all over the place trying to reflect every slight change in the popular wind and would eventually fly itself apart.

Yes, the constitution can be changed, but it's designed so that it takes more then a momentary 'gust' of popular opinion.  That's also why we have the offset election years for the various branches.  The framers were saying essentially "yeah, the world turns and there may be some adjustments needed" but they were also trying to make sure that no single event could be SO outrageous, infuriating, or offensive as to, in the matter of months, tear down the house they built and replace it with something completely new.

Are there consequences to this?  Yes.  The constitution, if it's working right, should always piss off a few people.  It shouldn't ever be quite "perfect" for everyone, because the flexibility to make that happen is the same flexibility that will tear our way of life asunder.
"When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis

Offline Toad

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 18415
Supreme Court Rules Cities Can Seize Your Home For Walmart
« Reply #92 on: June 24, 2005, 03:24:16 PM »
TJ!

Quote
Letter to J. Cartwright, 1824). THOMAS JEFFERSON ON DEMOCRACY 68 (S. Padover Ed. 1953).

Each generation is as independent as the one preceding, as that was all which had gone before. It has then, like them, a right to choose for itself the form of government it believes most productive of its own happiness; consequently, to accommodate to the circumstances in which it finds itself, that it received from its predecessors; and it is for the peace and good of mankind, that a solemn opportunity of doing this every 19 or 20 years, should be provided in the constitution, so that it may be handed on, with periodic repairs, from generation to generation, to the end of time, if anything human can so long endure.

Happily for us, that when we find our constitutions defective and insufficient to secure the happiness of our people, we can assemble with all the coolness of philosophers, and set it to rights, while every other nation on earth must have recourse to arms to amend or restore their constitutions.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

Offline Skuzzy

  • Support Member
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 31462
      • HiTech Creations Home Page
Supreme Court Rules Cities Can Seize Your Home For Walmart
« Reply #93 on: June 25, 2005, 12:19:36 PM »
Just FYI:  Less than 24 hours after this passed, home owners in Arlington, Texas were summarily told to be out of thier homes to make way for the new Dallas Cowboys Football Stadium.

Before this was passed, it appeared the stadium was going to not be built in Arlington as many home owners did not want to move.
Roy "Skuzzy" Neese
support@hitechcreations.com

Offline Gunslinger

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 10084
Supreme Court Rules Cities Can Seize Your Home For Walmart
« Reply #94 on: June 25, 2005, 12:26:35 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Skuzzy
Just FYI:  Less than 24 hours after this passed, home owners in Arlington, Texas were summarily told to be out of thier homes to make way for the new Dallas Cowboys Football Stadium.

Before this was passed, it appeared the stadium was going to not be built in Arlington as many home owners did not want to move.


tsk tsk tsk,

that's just evil.  Especially if somone is losing a house that may have been in the family for generations.  Or an elderly couple that retired to this home of theirs that they'd ben planning for years.

Offline Skuzzy

  • Support Member
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 31462
      • HiTech Creations Home Page
Supreme Court Rules Cities Can Seize Your Home For Walmart
« Reply #95 on: June 25, 2005, 12:39:39 PM »
Don't you find it odd the lawyers already had the paperwork drawn up before this was enacted?  There is no other way they could have prepared all the legal documents in less than 24 hours.
Seems very strange to me.  Bubba factor at work (for those who live in Texas, you know what I mean)?
Roy "Skuzzy" Neese
support@hitechcreations.com

Offline TrueKill

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1864
Supreme Court Rules Cities Can Seize Your Home For Walmart
« Reply #96 on: June 25, 2005, 12:41:08 PM »
no clue what that means skuzzy

Offline Skuzzy

  • Support Member
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 31462
      • HiTech Creations Home Page
Supreme Court Rules Cities Can Seize Your Home For Walmart
« Reply #97 on: June 25, 2005, 12:46:40 PM »
Born and raised in Texas and you do not know what the 'Bubba factor' is?  Ok, that's a first.

Bubba factor:  Laws are laws, but in Texas, the judges will often override the law (federal, state, local,..it does not matter)in favor of something else.  For instance, Texas is a community property state (50/50).  But in a divorce those laws get tossed out of the window and the judges rule any which way they feel like.
Lawyers will seldom seek to get a judgement overridden (i.e. taking it to a higher court) as the lawyer will find himself/herself not able to win anymore cases, regardless of who the judge is.
Roy "Skuzzy" Neese
support@hitechcreations.com

Offline lazs2

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 24886
Supreme Court Rules Cities Can Seize Your Home For Walmart
« Reply #98 on: June 25, 2005, 12:49:37 PM »
well.... if a facility is being built by a municipality... say a road or water/wastewater plant or high school...  that is completely different than a Wall mart or privately owned stadium..

I think that the price the  city pays should be 50% over the going rate.  so long as they are OWNER OCCUPIED

You might look at the homes as trash... the owners may look at them as... well..

Their friggin home... the only friggin home they have or are likely to ever have if they can't afford another one.

Wall mart being goughed??  your kidding me... They have to put in MILLIONS of dollars in infrastructure improvements in order to even break ground.... They don't blink an eye if you tell em that they got to put in 2 miles of new storm and sewer line at a cost of 3 million.... Tell em they got to put in a park and they will...

To even consider that a homeowner occupant is "gougeing" poor old Wall Mart by asking even double the going price is silly.

Does that mean that.... as your property becomes more valuable... you can't get whatever  the market will bear if someone wants to put in some housijng tract or whatever that will bring more tax money to the city?

If you hold out and don't sell a developer your home... you might be holding back millions in city improvements and revenue... soooo..

by you guys logic... the housing developer gets to take your house for "fair market value"  no matter what it is actually worth if he had to pay for it by dealing with YOU... THE ACTUAL OWNER.

This is really bad guys.

lazs

Offline Skuzzy

  • Support Member
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 31462
      • HiTech Creations Home Page
Supreme Court Rules Cities Can Seize Your Home For Walmart
« Reply #99 on: June 25, 2005, 12:54:36 PM »
Some of the Arlington home owners are alledging the city cut the appraisal of thier homes in anticipation of the stadium being built there, as they only pay what the home appraises for from the tax records.
Roy "Skuzzy" Neese
support@hitechcreations.com

Offline Suave

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2950
Supreme Court Rules Cities Can Seize Your Home For Walmart
« Reply #100 on: June 25, 2005, 01:05:13 PM »
I bet that stadium will be built with tax dollars too. Not unlike the Spurs' new home.

Offline Flit

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1035
Supreme Court Rules Cities Can Seize Your Home For Walmart
« Reply #101 on: June 25, 2005, 01:40:20 PM »
This is so wrong.
  Now that the goverment has givin itself the power , I see it being used to "expand the tax base" ie, take the land and hand it over to a private company / individual for the sole purpose of generating more tax revenue.(See Skuzzy's example above)
  I urge Everyone to contact their congressmen asap.
 The only way we (as a nation) can stop this is to raise a big as fuss as possible.
 Otherwise, this Country is going to become (if it has'nt already)become The United Socialist States of America.
  I bet the Forefathers are rolling in their grave right now.Their intent was Not to enable the goverment to take private property and sell/give it to another private individual to profit from.
It was to provide needed infrastructure to the public.

Offline Seagoon

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2396
      • http://www.providencepca.com
Supreme Court Rules Cities Can Seize Your Home For Walmart
« Reply #102 on: June 25, 2005, 02:25:30 PM »
Hi Oboe,

Yes, I believe that the use of force or the threat of force to make someone hand over their own legally obtained private property against their will is almost always a variety of theft.

You see, I don't see much of a difference between being forced to hand over my family farm against my will in order to build a Walmart or a new DHSS branch or a block of council flats. The intentions (at least the stated intentions) in all of them are good, and intended to serve the greater interest, but I believe all of them violate a natural right granted to all people by their Creator.

Unfortunately, I will concede that a certain amount of wiggle room on this subject (eminent domain) is in fact built into the original text of the constitution. For instance, the 5th ammendment of the US constition states: "nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation." (italics mine) So the ability of the government to seize private property against your will and reimburse you for it, has been there from the beginning and that this power was further extended by the Income Tax ammendment (16) of 1913.

The strict constructionists argued in part that this interpretation of "the public use clause" of the constitution effectively twists it out of shape via an excessively broad interpretation. Yet more "penumbras" have been discovered. Certainly the framers would not have allowed seizures to increase the tax base, etc. Road building, defense, etc. perhaps, but Condos and Strip Malls? Not a chance. The "I'll rule according to what is best for the Common Good" trend has got to stop or we will rapidly become entirely subject to the whims of the judicial oligarchy.

In any event, Chairboy is right, I do indeed believe that the process of ammending the constitution should be the most difficult of all legal processes (and in the US, it is) in order to preserve continuity rather than having us become entirely subject to the demogoguery of the age or political fads of dubious value.

I believe however, that the ammendments we enact should be in keeping with natural laws (i.e. those laws that men are granted by their creator) rather than being against them. I would, for instance, oppose an ammendment allowing for murder not because it doesn't "serve the common good" but because I agree with the signers of the Declaration when they affirmed the following:

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. --That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men"

Clearly, the US government is not acting here to secure these God given rights.

- SEAGOON

PS - there were indeed prior attempts in US history to raise revenue via income taxes, but these were always of dubious constitutionality. Lincoln's attempt here is in the same category as his suspension of habeas corpus. Great man that he was, he did many things of at least questionable constitutionality in his quest to preserve the union.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2005, 02:27:39 PM by Seagoon »
SEAGOON aka Pastor Andy Webb
"We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion... Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." - John Adams

Offline Skuzzy

  • Support Member
  • Administrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 31462
      • HiTech Creations Home Page
Supreme Court Rules Cities Can Seize Your Home For Walmart
« Reply #103 on: June 25, 2005, 02:43:16 PM »
I really think it is time for the people who are represented by the idiots who voted for this to pull the plug on thier man.

If we, the people, do not get off our collective tushes and take control back from the people who are flushing our country down the drain, no one else will.

Unfortunately, we do not have the guts, interests, nor desire to shake the status quo.  "It's not my problem" should be tattooed on the forehead or every man, woman, and child in this country.


Now that I have said that,..I am going to go take a nap as there is not a damn thing anyone will or could do.  I hear the sheep herder's call.
Roy "Skuzzy" Neese
support@hitechcreations.com

Offline vorticon

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 7935
Supreme Court Rules Cities Can Seize Your Home For Walmart
« Reply #104 on: June 25, 2005, 02:48:52 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Skuzzy
I really think it is time for the people who are represented by the idiots who voted for this to pull the plug on thier man.

If we, the people, do not get off our collective tushes and take control back from the people who are flushing our country down the drain, no one else will.

Unfortunately, we do not have the guts, interests, nor desire to shake the status quo.  "It's not my problem" should be tattooed on the forehead or every man, woman, and child in this country.


Now that I have said that,..I am going to go take a nap as there is not a damn thing anyone will or could do.  I hear the sheep herder's call.


supreme court...appointed isnt it?