The IRA end its armed campaign.

[Holden McGroin]

Originally posted by Nashwan
Ask a native American how he feels about US occupation.

As a human with Pima heritage, I would like to say that I am a citizen of the United States of America and I have no problem with the fact that my country exists on the North American land mass.

We should all realize that the native lifesytle of the original Americans was on it's way out had Jackson forced the Cherokee to Oklahoma or not.  Or perhaps modern populations should abandon all lands once occupied by the Celts, the Austrailian Aborigials, as a matter of fact we should have guilt that the Cro-Magnon displaced the Neanderthal.

[Swoop]

We already gave em back the South, it just happens that the North didn't want to go.

[Hangtime]

Originally posted by Holden McGroin
As a human with Pima heritage, I would like to say that I am a citizen of the United States of America and I have no problem with the fact that my country exists on the North American land mass. [/B]

I challenge the 'human' part of that statement. Anyone that displays the most perfect bellybutton I've ever set eyes on as an avatar is likely an alien.

an evil one, at that.

[Toad]

Which is kind of like saying the North Dakotans, South Dakotans, Nebraskans, Kansans and Oklahomans didn't want to give their land back to the Native Americans.

How suprising, eh?  

[SirLoin]

As far as natives go...I don't think anyone stole land from them in our lifetime...i believe if you are born in a nation you are every bit as "native" as they are.

claiming that whitey ripped you off is true..if you read a history book...saying that the rest of us natives should pay for that is wrong.

evryone more or less has the same rights now...

if you want to retain a certain culture..that's great!

Go for it and good luck.

[Toad]

Exactly.  It's all about "when".

If my parents stole your land from you but I was born here... then I'm every bit as much a native as you are and the land is mine.  

[Karnak]

I'm sorry, but I just don't get the sympathy for terrorists not even fighting for their own people that seems to exist here.

You'll lay out the hate for the Palistinian terrorists even though they are directing their terror attacks against an nation occupying land against the wishes of those on that land and then turn around and make excuses for the IRA who attacked a country that was in a location at the wishes of those living there.

Why?

If terrorists are universally bad, then the IRA must needs be condemned just as strongly as all the rest.  If terrorists come in shades of grey, then surely the Palistinian terrorists who are actually opposing an unpopular occupation would be the lighter shade of grey, no?

If not that, then you need to explain your inconsistant view of terrorists.

[Toad]

Originally posted by Karnak
If terrorists are universally bad, then the IRA must needs be condemned just as strongly as all the rest.  

Who is not condemning the IRA?

[Karnak]

Originally posted by Toad
Who is not condemning the IRA?

It seems to me that some of the condemnations are coming with qualifications that we'd never see on this board for other terrorists.

Imagine this if Al-Quaeda publicly annouced it was laying down its arms:

"Yes Al-Quaeda is bad, but you know the Americans did things that provoked them.  Lets just let bygones be bygones."

To me that sounds exactly like:

"Now, ask an Irishman how he feels about British occupation.

I'm glad the current mouthpiece for the IRA has brought armed resistance to an end.. one would hope the English will follow suit and get off their Island.

I'm NOT taking sides.. just trying to point out there's two sides to the story."



It is conditioning the condemnation when there wasn't the slightest excuse for what the IRA was doing after the Republic of Ireland was freed from British rule.  Before that they'd have had the same justification as the Palistinians, and have been just as wrong if they used the tactics of blowing up civilians.

I don't like the romatic view of the IRA that lends even slight legitimacy to them or the misconception that the people in Nothern Ireland wanted the British out.  If that had been the case the British would have left it at the same time as the rest of Ireland.

[Toad]

Would seem your comparison depends on the acceptance of "two Irelands" as the "natural" state of affairs.

[Karnak]

Originally posted by Toad
Would seem your comparison depends on the acceptance of "two Irelands" as the "natural" state of affairs.

I leave that to the voters of Ireland and Northern Ireland, and they have thus far endorsed that state of affairs.  If they change their tune, I expect the British to leave.

[Replicant]

Originally posted by Toad
The IRA wasn't funded by the US government.

Yes, there were US citizens, particularly those of Irish descent, that gave money and support to the IRA. Much like there are British citizens that support A-Q and the Muslim terrorists that would strike the US. (Richard Reid.)

I'm not going to slam the entire population of GB because there are British citizens that support A-Q and actively try to strike US targets.

I think the main complaint was that it was going on with full knowledge of the US Government and whatever requests the British Government made it wasn't taken all that seriously until 9/11 when terrorism became 'unpopular'.  (talking about the Police/security forces turning a blind eye to what was going on).

Originally posted by Karnak
I leave that to the voters of Ireland and Northern Ireland, and they have thus far endorsed that state of affairs.  If they change their tune, I expect the British to leave.

And that is how it should be; democracy.  Britain has encouraged independance throughout it's commonwealth countries and those that still have the Queen as Head of State.  I know a lot of Northern Irish people and their passports state 'British' and they're all proud of it.  As with any nation, Britain has a duty to protect its subjects and that includes those in Northern Ireland.

[Scherf]

Actually, I think it was the Libyan bombing of the Berlin disco which was the turning point for the US 'winking' at IRA support.

"Please Mrs. Thatcher, we need to use your airspace so our government can strike at people who think it's just peachy to blow up our citizens anytime, anywhere."

"Well, Mr. Reagan, on that note, it just so happens we share a common interest in anti-terrorism."

[Skydancer]

Its also worth pointing out that the British Army was sent to Northern Ireland to stop the protestant population burning the catholics out of house and home. Infact the catholic population requested that the government sent troops to protect them.

All I'm saying is please root out the hypocracy. Terrorism is terrorism and it is no solution. It grates on many British people that we have been fighting a "war on terror" for the last 30 years or more. A terror sponsored by and paid for by US citizens both high and low as well as others. Those people have the blood of British families on their hands! Don't be suprised that some of us are a bit P O, d about that.

[Replicant]

Just need the rest of the Nationalist and Loyalist groups to disarm now.  However, if Northern Ireland became a united Ireland, and predominantly Catholic, then I wouldn't be surprised if the Loyalist Protestant faction to start bombing again.