Keep on shooting at those 'copters

[Nash]

Originally posted by Lizard3
How predictable. Feeling the need to go build them a new ghetto Nash?

How you twist armed thugs shooting at helocopters being compared to Somalia as a race issue is, well.......predictable.

Did anyone even shoot at a helicopter?

Anyone talk to the pilot? Anyone get confirmation of that from anything helicopter-related? The commander? Anything?

I saw a military spokesman saying that they are big and loud helicopters, and you couldn't hear anything firing at you, and that nothing had struck any of thier helicopters.

Has this been confirmed?

Nice use of "ghetto", Liz.

noooo..... nothing to do with race, is there?

[Hangtime]

LOL.. take the blue pill.

[Rino]

Times like these Nash reminds me of a monkey flinging poop,
full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.

[Nash]

Kinda like the last two replies?

I said that nobody has officially reported any helicopters being fired on.

And it turns out that I'm taking the blue pill and signifying nothing.

Mmmkay.

[Hangtime]

we got the helicopter shooting report from the same talking heads that informed us there was a heluva big wind that came up about sunrise on monday.

i kinda doubt the reports myself. much like the moon landings; this is just all democratic partisan rumor mongering intended to damage the administration and distract the population from massive gas price hikes to line the corporate pirate's pockets.

[FUNKED1]

Originally posted by RightF00T
LOL...I think the only Race here is to see who can hijack the most.

shack

[Simaril]

Originally posted by Hangtime
i wonder if the passengers leading the counter attack on the hijackers of flight 93 were religionists.

not intended as a slam. just an observation. religious (insert yer favorite denomination here) tend to be pacifists and are not the folks that make the diffrence when a snap decison to fight, to defend, to take immediate, certain deadly action in a cusp is required for survival.

It's been my experience that religious folks tend to sob, wail, bury their faces and heads in the sand, pleading for divine intervention or guidance while others unhindered by religious taboos and indoctrination act.

Todd Beamer, the one whose 15 minute cell phone call provides the only info about what happened on Flight 93, was a devout fundamentalist christian. He graduated from Wheaton College, ranked by US News as one of the best liberal arts colleges in the country and one of the oldest nondenominational evangelical christian schools.

He is the guy whose last recorded words were "You guys ready? Let's roll!"

http://www.wheaton.edu/front/911/obits.html


And by the way, look at what I've posted -- I've passed no judgement on firearms at all. I have fired weapons, including the M16, and my dad was a US Army Ranger.

(EDIT for clarification) My comments about anarchism were intended to play the devil's advocate; I jsut dont think any variation of anarchic society is realistic.  I hate the nanny state and its effects, but history has convinced me that governement able and willing to protect itself is necessary for peaceful living.

[Lizard3]

Originally posted by Nash
Kinda like the last two replies?

I said that nobody has officially reported any helicopters being fired on.

And it turns out that I'm taking the blue pill and signifying nothing.

Mmmkay.

Well, we've heard the reports of helio copters bein fired upon, haven't you?

And since when did anything offical make it so or not?

You'd turn any dark phrase into a "race" issue if it suited your porpoise. Hence the ghetto reference, a welcome matt for you belittlers...er leberals.

Keep em fat and happy like a tick and then you can wear em like a tick coat, each one a merry vote.

Hows that for a hijack? So sorry.

[Simaril]

And by the way



Nash, I gotta thank you for being the one bright, humorous spot in an otherwise horrific situation. It'd be nice to think you were playing the clown just to lighten the day for us south of the border, but in any case -- thanks.

[storch]

Originally posted by Sandman
I vehemently disagree. I consider myself to be a moral person and I'm an atheist. I do not act this way because I fear the "bayonet". It is because I expect to be treated in the same way.

hmmm that sounds suspiciously like Kharma, that concept may also be found in galatians chapter 5.  maybe you are confused in your atheism

[lazs2]

well... whatdayaknow.... people in a disaster or stressful situation are being brutal and savage and imoral..

But how can that be?   All that stuff is outdated and we don't need any nasty old outdated constitution or firearms... none of that bad stuff could ever happen here... we are a whole new race of people from those silly old revolutionaries of a few centuries ago...  and...

The government and police have guns... they will protect us.. they are even more highly developed humans than most right?

Seems that the ones who won't get brutalized in this will be the ones who have the courage to exercise their rights to defend themselves.   Just like in the last riots in los angeles..  Just like in the next riot after this..

or maybe... like in england... we should just disarm and trust to the rule of the strongest..  old people and women and people caught being outnumbered deserve whatever happens to em..  

lazs

[Masherbrum]

Originally posted by Siaf__csf
No it's not ok. But if you'd be sitting on the rooftop of a sinking house for two days with your children crying for fresh water and food, you might take a shot or two in anger and frustration too. Providing you got a loaded gun handy.

'Daddy why are those relatively safe people being picked up from the dome while we're about to dehydrate or drown here?'

Then again if they were looters, kill em all. Worst scum of the earth.

Looters are scum, what does that make a Helicopter ShootINg Advocate like yourself?

Karaya

[Nash]

Originally posted by Hangtime
we got the helicopter shooting report from the same talking heads that informed us there was a heluva big wind that came up about sunrise on monday.

Yeah I heard the those talking heads say that too. I also watched as they cut to a news conference where a guy in charge of these helicopters said (paraphrasing): "These are very large and loud aircraft. It'd be very difficult to know if you were fired on by small arms unless you were hit. As if right now, I have had no reports from any of my pilots that they were fired upon."

Now this could have changed. That's why I asked: Is the subject of this thread even for real?

[Skydancer]

Well I'm with Beetle on the gun thing. No suprise there! If the same thing happened here I think there might be less chance of getting shot!!! I happen to think us Brits might deal with it a lot differently but that is conjecture I grant you.

Things look realy bad. I can't understand why the great United States can't send the navy, airforce, army to evacuate, deliver supplies, restore order etc. From the news pics over here it looks as if the rescue relief effort is a criminal shambles. I mean one of the richest nations on earth can't help its own people. Bush is asking for help from Clinton!!! Whatever next!!! When is Marshal law going to be declared? Surely a matter of time.

It put me to thinking about all that govt crud we were fed about surviving nuclear attack, in the 1980s. If the US govt can't deal with this situation how in the heck would they have dealt with nuclear war, accident? But that is another issue I spose.

Whatever its a bloody sad state of affairs.

[mosgood]

Originally posted by Seagoon
Hello Sandman,

 

I hope you'll forgive me if I don't get into much of a debate on this as, I'm really way too busy. Maybe later?

Actually, I accidently mixed a quote from Acton with a quote from another man, Here is the full text of the actual quote I was referring to. It was actually Robert Winthrop, Speaker of the US House of Representatives, 1849.

"All societies of men must be governed in some way or other. The less they have of stringent State Government, the more they must have of individual self-government. The less they rely on public law or physical force, the more they must rely on private moral restraint. Men, in a word, must necessarily be controlled either by a power within them, or a power without them; either by the word of God, or by the strong arm of man."

I would expect you to disagree with this, as I probably once would have. But put simply, no matter how much we might hate this fact, the foundations for Western Ethics are based on the Ethical system of the bible. There is no basis in the "law of nature" for "loving ones neighbor as oneself" , in fact observe the wolf pack or the looters and you'll see precisely the opposite law at work.

Did we have morals before the closing of the canon? Well to a great extent all the ethics of Western civilization post-dated the closing of the canon, but certainly one could appeal to civilizations that had ethics without the bible (Ancient Greece for instance). There I'd say the essential truth of the quote above is still binding. Why did the Greeks follow their ethical system? Because even they felt it to be based on principles set down and enforced by their creators, the same could be said of all ancient civilizations.

For my part, I'd say that the vast majority of their ethics were in fact informed by the conscience that their creator gave them.

But Sandy, attempts to create a stable system of ethics in Atheism always fail. The very denial of any absolutes immediately means that they are open to the charge of being arbitrary and instead of being an unchanging code, they are as mutable as silly putty and ultimately all get swept away as desire masters restraint every time. Nietszche dismissed them as contemptible tools by which the weak seek to master the strong, Sartre and De Beauvoir both tried to work out an atheistic ethic and ultimately failed as to paraphrase Sartre, without a fixed reference point all other points are ultimately meaningless. All we have then are preferences which must be enforced by the state, but which are subject to endless flux and an accompanying "will-to-power" struggle.

So what do most Atheists do? They trade on borrowed capital. Most generally agree to follow a system of ethics, but when their preferences differ from the prevailing system...

- SEAGOON

So, really it's not "by the Bible or the Bayonet"  It's "by paying for it later by going to hell for your sins or the Bayonet"  both is fear induced.  So...  people only behave because they fear consquences ?